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Author Topic: My response to the community  (Read 17452 times)
damnek
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February 06, 2013, 11:47:09 AM
 #181

someone please move this to off topic.

+1 please hide this shit
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JoelKatz
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February 06, 2013, 11:49:32 AM
 #182

a) If they got involved with other bets, that's their problem. Why should you feel more responsible if they were doing some other risky stuff with their money that you had no control over?
"It's not my fault for breaking my promise to you, it's your fault for relying on me to keep it."

Quote
b) You still have no guarantee that they would have paid up if you had won.
"If the tables were reversed, it's entirely possible you would have done something just as bad as what I did."

These are pretty weak arguments.

That said, I do think that the actual damage Matthew did is probably not all that much. Obviously, his victims have every incentive to exaggerate the harm done.

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February 06, 2013, 07:43:07 PM
 #183

Welcome back Matthew. It is good to see you take responsibility for your actions rather than just hide with your tail behind your legs. I have always supported and admired your passion, drive, creativity and work ethic. I was disappointed with your actions, but I forgive them. Trust can be earned back from me.

For everyone else:
I did not bet anything with Matthew. I had investments with Pirate. I did not gain from his bet, in fact I lost practically all my btc worth to Pirate and that is embarrassing and hard to admit. While some may have been able to offload their debt due to Matthew's irresponsible behavior, lets not forget who committed the original alleged crime here: Trendon Shavers, not Matthew N Wright. I admit any of my emotion and feelings about "the bet" are misplaced feelings from my own stupidity, actions, etc. with trusting in Trendon based on other forum members who I met that seemed to trust in him to repay, both before and after the default. The lessons I learned are many, but none of them are that Matthew deserves no place in this community. I also admit this is easier for me since I did not bet anything with Matthew. I also tried to talk him into taking Trendon's offer to buyout the bet, one late night on IRC. Matthew stood on principle that night, refusing to take the buyout and give up his responsibility. He made the bets and wanted to be sure they were repaid. I think that shows his original intention. Somewhere along the way that was lost.

I have been reluctant to get back into bitcoin, but I love programming, engineering, and economics. I believe in bitcoin and I believe that I can and will be part of the community again, but it will be much more careful and guarded this time.

It is time to forgive all those who are repentant, including ourselves.

Thank you Matthew for coming forward, best of luck to you.

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February 06, 2013, 08:38:12 PM
 #184

So much drama here - when I was a kid we used to say, "Money talks, bullsh*t walks".

We need secure BTC escrow services - then we'll never have to endure these 40-page docu-dramas...
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February 06, 2013, 08:45:55 PM
 #185

At this point I vote to remove the scammer tag from Matthew, even because there are several a-holes around here who scammed purposefully even larger numbers of people and did not get it.

BTW: I betted with him and now I think that he is sincere and in any case all the drama in his outstandingly well written posts is worth of his presence.
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February 06, 2013, 10:48:25 PM
 #186

"It's not my fault for breaking my promise to you, it's your fault for relying on me to keep it."

Not all promises are equal.  Reasonability is the standard used by rational actors for judging the reliability of promises.

EG I could promise you the moon, but you'd be unreasonable and foolish to expect and/or rely on me to actually deliver said orbiting celestial object.

Applied to this situation, we may observe that relying on Matt to honor his bet was greedy, irrational behavior.

Due diligence and common sense demand using an intermediary specializing in brokering bets, of which there are at least two using Bitcoin.

Furthermore, this forum is well known to be particularly unsuitable as reliable venue for wagers. 

It is rife with scams, trolling, humor, pranks, and drama.  And I like it that way.

Anyone who lost money as a result of entering into such an obviously puckish bet, sans escrow, deserves to lose at least one Bitcoin for each they hoped to gain.


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February 06, 2013, 10:55:38 PM
 #187

At this point I vote to remove the scammer tag from Matthew, even because there are several a-holes around here who scammed purposefully even larger numbers of people and did not get it.

BTW: I betted with him and now I think that he is sincere and in any case all the drama in his outstandingly well written posts is worth of his presence.

*facepalm*

I for one was hoping that he'd have the decency to never show up again.

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February 06, 2013, 11:28:18 PM
 #188

EG I could promise you the moon, but you'd be unreasonable and foolish to expect and/or rely on me to actually deliver said orbiting celestial object.

Applied to this situation, we may observe that relying on Matt to honor his bet was greedy, irrational behavior.

Due diligence and common sense demand using an intermediary specializing in brokering bets, of which there are at least two using Bitcoin.

Furthermore, this forum is well known to be particularly unsuitable as reliable venue for wagers. 

It is rife with scams, trolling, humor, pranks, and drama.  And I like it that way.

Anyone who lost money as a result of entering into such an obviously puckish bet, sans escrow, deserves to lose at least one Bitcoin for each they hoped to gain.
So then I presume you don't think Pirate owes anyone anything. After all, their relying on him was irrational.

I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz
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February 07, 2013, 01:59:38 AM
 #189

the people who took Mathews bets have some liability in this matter as well. If you let someone get into a hole owing to you when you know that they have little chance of making good on their bet you share some of the risk. This is just like the banks loaning on homes to buyers they know couldn't pay. I am not in favor of removing Mathews scammer X's. I am in favor of suspending part of the debt the debtors are responsible for the debt too and should pay some of the cost. 

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February 07, 2013, 02:03:09 AM
 #190

the people who took Mathews bets have some liability in this matter as well. If you let someone get into a hole owing to you when you know that they have little chance of making good on their bet you share some of the risk. This is just like the banks loaning on homes to buyers they know couldn't pay.
The bet didn't start that way.After a while with the bet growing to ridiculous proportions it became was obvious he wouldn't be able to pay but early on the total sum bet was low enough to make it possible for Matthew to repay.

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February 07, 2013, 02:12:27 AM
 #191

Okay I understand but there has to be a rehabilitation program. If people rip me off then make good they go into probation after a time limit the negative rating would be removed. I would say 7 years. 

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February 07, 2013, 02:18:27 AM
 #192

I am in favor of suspending part of the debt the debtors are responsible for the debt too and should pay some of the cost.

Maybe Matthew can list his debt as an "asset" on one of exchanges, with shares assigned based on the respective proportion of the total debt owed to them, and as he works it off he can make dividend payments which will be distributed proportionally to all debt holders.


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February 07, 2013, 02:24:21 AM
 #193

So then I presume you don't think Pirate owes anyone anything. After all, their relying on him was irrational.

Let's face it, there were people trying to profiteer from the pirate debacle by buying up pirate debt as cheaply as possible and then betting with Matthew.  One clusterfuck which was driven by greed rather than common-sense got compounded by another debacle driven by greed rather than common-sense.

It's bit like Nigerian scams - they can't work unless potential victims are willing to abandon all common-sense and break the law to boot.  They rely in large part on wilful ignorance on the part of victims.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 07, 2013, 03:29:23 AM
 #194

This is when I learned a lesson I had never had first hand experience with until now: *never fuck with other people's money*.

Hear, hear! Bitcoinica take heed.
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February 07, 2013, 09:22:52 AM
 #195

So then I presume you don't think Pirate owes anyone anything. After all, their relying on him was irrational.

Presume all you like my good fellow.  I shan't bother listing all the key characteristics differentiating poor silly old Matt from the rapacious, calculating Pirate@40.

Suffice it to remind everyone that you 'Can't Con An Honest John.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTB929OoqI4

^^Warning: sick beatz!11

PS What backs bitcoin? (Been dying to hear your answer.)



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February 07, 2013, 09:36:23 AM
 #196

Okay I understand but there has to be a rehabilitation program.

Yeah, but it would have to start with Matthew putting his money were is mouth currently is and start coughing up some coin. Even if he cant pay back all his bets, its the only thing that would show he is sincere. "I was absolutely going to pay up to 1000BTC" he wrote,  that would be a good start.
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February 07, 2013, 09:43:22 AM
 #197

So then I presume you don't think Pirate owes anyone anything. After all, their relying on him was irrational.

Let's face it, there were people trying to profiteer from the pirate debacle by buying up pirate debt as cheaply as possible and then betting with Matthew.  One clusterfuck which was driven by greed rather than common-sense got compounded by another debacle driven by greed rather than common-sense.

It's bit like Nigerian scams - they can't work unless potential victims are willing to abandon all common-sense and break the law to boot.  They rely in large part on wilful ignorance on the part of victims.

Very good points.

Pirate pass through operators made bank yet didn't get scammer tags, and Prof. Katz defends them.

Only speculation suggests Matt made a single Satoshi from his prank, but he is shunned and labeled a scammer.

Something is rotten here, and we can't be the only ones smelling it.


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February 07, 2013, 09:56:09 AM
 #198

Only speculation suggests Matt made a single Satoshi from his prank, but he is shunned and labeled a scammer.

Something is rotten here, and we can't be the only ones smelling it.

He labeled himself a scammer, it was a clause of his bet. Even without that clause, willful deceit and not honoring a financial agreement  should give anyone a scammer tag, particularly when we are talking 10s of 1000s of BTC.

As for PPTs, I too think they should be labeled as scammer, but at least you can argue for most of them that they did honor their agreements.
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February 07, 2013, 11:17:38 AM
 #199

Only speculation suggests Matt made a single Satoshi from his prank, but he is shunned and labeled a scammer.

Something is rotten here, and we can't be the only ones smelling it.

He labeled himself a scammer, it was a clause of his bet. Even without that clause, willful deceit and not honoring a financial agreement  should give anyone a scammer tag, particularly when we are talking 10s of 1000s of BTC.

As for PPTs, I too think they should be labeled as scammer, but at least you can argue for most of them that they did honor their agreements.

This is true. I agree completely that I asked for a scammer tag plain as day. The point about some others not getting them to me says that there is a need for an additional tag (which Theymos has already declined to make on numerous occasions). It just simply isn't so easy to say someone is a scammer. Deadbeat tag FTW.

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February 07, 2013, 01:33:58 PM
 #200

I have reported this thread twice to mods.

I'm sick and tired that one mans ego shall be flaunted in one single thread.

There are many ppl making bitcoin great, at this point in time, Matthew is not one of them.


Everybody that agress should report this thread, and ask having it moved to off topic.
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