Scammer - HashKing

[vampire]

Hopefully I'm being helpful with this post.

Here, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75480.0 , Hashking states he has rental income and has an established LLC. Perhaps that claim can be checked as part of this Scammer Investigation.


I'd, also, just like to say I'm almost as frustrated by people choosing the riskiest offerings as the people running them dishonestly. I'm running my own GLBSE listing as honestly as possible and it's incredibly hard to compete when the majority of investors aren't evaluating offerings and claims well (ASIC press release information taken almost as gospel, comes to mind).

He also says that he's 15. Unless that was a lie.

[SaltySpitoon]

Under the wikipedia topic of Insurance in general, theres a few interesting things that may apply to this case. I haven't really followed this, as I haven't invested in anyone, but I know the jist. Feel free to read through the link, but heres a few things that caught my attention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurance

"Utmost good faith – the insured and the insurer are bound by a good faith bond of honesty and fairness. Material facts must be disclosed."
if the fact that he was investing in Pirate was not disclosed, that goes against that aspect.

"Insurance scholars have typically used morale hazard to refer to the increased loss due to unintentional carelessness and moral hazard to refer to increased risk due to intentional carelessness or indifference. Insurers attempt to address carelessness through inspections, policy provisions requiring certain types of maintenance, and possible discounts for loss mitigation efforts."

"The policyholder may hire their own public adjuster to negotiate the settlement with the insurance company on their behalf."

Very Interesting here - "Business interruption insurance covers the loss of income, and the expenses incurred, after a covered peril interrupts normal business operations."

What I did learn here though is, just by saying that the asset is insured, that by default gives it EVERY type of possible insurance (including those odd ones such as kidnap insurance, nuclear insurance, etc) as long as they are related to the business model HK had. So if you owe someone money, that you have tied up in your HK account, and you are kidnapped because of this, HK is liable for this as well, and by law are required to pay for any damages that may result. But either way, look into it yourselves, very interesting concepts.

Then again, how you would get this enforced is above me, but I'm just providing a bit of insight that you can interpret any way you like.

[CecilNiosaki]

I wouldn't sell any of my personal assets to cover any bitcoin losses.  This is a business, it has failed.  When businesses fail they shut down and usually nobody gets anything.   I will continue to make payments from my bitcoin production and buy coins whenever I can.  If people continue at act they way they are acting I will just walk away.   

I would like to add in the above post by Hashking. As he states that it was a business, it should be filed for taxes. And as with sole proprietorships, I expect that he will be filling for a business loss on taxes and using that money for part of the "insurance".

I do believe that his threatening to walk away speaks greatly about what he has done, though.

[FLHippy]

  Every cent he owns from his car to his house to the clothes in his closet and the balance of every bank account could be used to satisfy a judgement. 

The problem with judgements is they are hard to collect. Unless you have a private company handle it for you, it's a HUGE involvement to identify and seize assets. It's not something most people can handle on their own without dedicating their life to the task. And in this case, you're part of a class... Typically the lawyers suck up the bulk of the judgement in a class action.

I currently have 2 judgements against people in my area who have caused damage to my boat. There are a lot of yah hoos out there on the weekends. Unskilled operator crashes are a daily occurrence in the marina on weekends. People buy boats without knowing how to use them.

I'm finding it near impossible to collect these judgements. It's my responsibility to identify their assets and I just don't have the time and skill to do this on my own. For $5000, My time is turning out to be more important than collecting the judgement. I have a lien on a car in one case and a lien on a home in another case. The guy's car is shit and not worth the lien. He can never sell it but who would buy it. The home is deep underwater and it's about to become bank owned. That is probably the only judgement I will collect and it's been 8 years in the works.

[wachtwoord]

There is zero use trying to convict him cause you cannot prove he received Bitcoins from you. You can prove a transaction exists and that you have the private key for the origin. You cannot prove he controls the destination address.

So may be stop this discussion? All I'm asking (besides the return of my funds) is communication, which I am clearly not getting. I just see he is sending money out and no Bitcoins hitting my wallet.

[CecilNiosaki]

There is zero use trying to convict him cause you cannot prove he received Bitcoins from you. You can prove a transaction exists and that you have the private key for the origin. You cannot prove he controls the destination address.

So may be stop this discussion? All I'm asking (besides the return of my funds) is communication, which I am clearly not getting. I just see he is sending money out and no Bitcoins hitting my wallet.

How can I not prove that he received Bitcoins from me? If you log on into his website, he has the status of a deposit change when he actually receives the coins.

[DeathAndTaxes]

 Every cent he owns from his car to his house to the clothes in his closet and the balance of every bank account could be used to satisfy a judgement.  

The problem with judgements is they are hard to collect.

Agreed.  I don't think this will go to court, I don't think this will get a judgement, I don't think anyone would be able to collect much on a judgement even if they got one.

Just pointing out since he never created a legal entity (LLC, Corp) for his business activity the only possible definition of "me" is himself, his assets, his person.  Without a separate legal construct any liabilities incurred by his "business" are no different than non-business liabilities incurred.  

[zyk]

Am beginning to think that Hashking still paying out is now a hero members honor - action...

as all other PPT´s are shutting up and are performing horror - action.....none of them shows any personal responsibility

Throw the bums out

Cheers Zyk

[heatstroke]

Hey hashking, can you show any document (signed by both parties) where people accept that their 'insured' deposits will be returned within 3 years?  Or is the 3 year remuneration term something you made up after pirate cleaned you out?

With any kind of insurance, "best efforts" is usually written into the contract, and usually presumed if it's absent.  So if I were to get into a car accident, my insurer would make its 'best effort' to have the matter sorted out quickly.  This is both a legal issue, as well as good customer service.

I'd never sign an insurance contract whose terms were "Yeah dude, we'll pay for your accident at some point in the next 3 years, so just chill out brah. Also I'm 15."

[muyuu]

It's an interesting form of insurance, considering the fact that mining equipment guarantees nothing 3 years in the future. Could be losing money in a matter of months. With difficulty shooting up we'll see how that goes.

[Puppet]

I also wondered if Pirate had promised payments over the next 3 years, if he wouldnt have been labeled a scammer? After all, both hashking and pirate seem to have paid out a very small number of small accounts, and promised to pay the rest later.

[theymos]

Did he mention this mining insurance thing before the BS&T default? Has he paid anyone yet?

[Puppet]

Did he mention this mining insurance thing before the BS&T default?

Of course not. And seriously, how is mining going to pay for this over 3 years? In just 3 months his mining operation will be almost worthless and it will take 3000 years to pay back his obligations.

Has he paid anyone yet?

Yes, a few tiny accounts. Very much like Pirate did.

[zyk]

Did he mention this mining insurance thing before the BS&T default?

Of course not. And seriously, how is mining going to pay for this over 3 years? In just 3 months his mining operation will be almost worthless and it will take 3000 years to pay back his obligations.

Has he paid anyone yet?

Yes, a few tiny accounts. Very much like Pirate did.

No one would have invested with hashking if they knew "fully insured" meant coins being mined over 3 years...

if the plan is just mining coins he will just get the scammers tag 3 years in the future i guess.

You will get it much earlier when running in the arms of the FBI

Take care

The community still loves you

Thanks Zyk

[theymos]

I've decided that he is a scammer. Especially due to this (now-deleted) post:

I wouldn't sell any of my personal assets to cover any bitcoin losses.  This is a business, it has failed.  When businesses fail they shut down and usually nobody gets anything.

Umm, no. That's not true. Declaring your business a failure doesn't absolve you of your debts. You are your business. Your business is you.

I will continue to make payments from my bitcoin production and buy coins whenever I can.  If people continue at act they way they are acting I will just walk away.   

Threatening to renege on a legitimate debt to obtain a business concession is scamming.

Well then sue me.  Lets see what a court will say about bitcoin.  I will just file for a bk and I'm done.

You're ASKING to get sued?

You do realize judgements as a result of fraud (or any criminal activity) cannot be discharged in bk?

To anyone who has hashking's dox, please contact me.

Looks like I won't be paying your BTCS because you are looking for legal action.  I will wait for your court response.

[wachtwoord]

Theymos, could you lock this topic for 1-2 months?

At the moment this thread just leads to meaningless escalation.

[MrTeal]

If his deposits are backed by a mining operation, either he is:
1) Over leveraged and the value of his operation doesn't cover the value of his deposits
2) Completely incompetent at setting up a mining operation
3) Lying about the speed with which he can repay

A 3 year ROI for mining equipment is a joke.

[muyuu]

Mining equipment as long term insurance is a joke, if you even believe it. It would be easy to produce evidence if that was the case.

He doesn't seem to have any intention to repay. He'd rather have his depositors indefinitely waiting and slowly realising they won't get paid, instead of going for him.

[hashking]

I've decided that he is a scammer. Especially due to this (now-deleted) post:

I wouldn't sell any of my personal assets to cover any bitcoin losses.  This is a business, it has failed.  When businesses fail they shut down and usually nobody gets anything.

Umm, no. That's not true. Declaring your business a failure doesn't absolve you of your debts. You are your business. Your business is you.

I will continue to make payments from my bitcoin production and buy coins whenever I can.  If people continue at act they way they are acting I will just walk away.   

Threatening to renege on a legitimate debt to obtain a business concession is scamming.

Well then sue me.  Lets see what a court will say about bitcoin.  I will just file for a bk and I'm done.

You're ASKING to get sued?

You do realize judgements as a result of fraud (or any criminal activity) cannot be discharged in bk?

To anyone who has hashking's dox, please contact me.

Looks like I won't be paying your BTCS because you are looking for legal action.  I will wait for your court response.

I guess everyone that has every deleted a message should get a scammer tag. 

[DeathAndTaxes]

Way to miss the point.

If the post you deleted was:

I love rainbows how about you?

do you think you would  be getting a scammer tag?  No?  Can you think of any reason why you might be getting one?