NEM's unfair distribution and failure

[swansong]

TLDR: Me and my colleagues were labeled as sockpuppet and we did not even get 1 stake... I provided all the evidence to makoto1337 that we are not suckpuppet accounts and he said that he is going to send our stakes but simply did not even answer after that.

We were using the same company IP when the first stake registration started. This action flagged us as suckpuppets. As you know the whole process of installing NEM (installing beta client and creating wallets) was not easy for an average Joe (and it still not easy) therefore I started creating new accounts and registered them on behalf of my colleagues. The result is our accounts flagged as suckpuppet ever since we are trying to get our stakes back! Yeah we don't have the right to use same IP when registering our NEM. We should have acted like a hacker and use vpn/proxy or something to be able to get our f... stakes.

I provided to "makoto1337" a lot of information regarding our personal info's to prove that we are not scammer's. (Linkedin profiles) I even offered conference call for meeting all the people here that we are not scammers. And he agreed and said: we can give some of you guys stakes back (not all of em) and he did not even talk ever since. His last message to me on April 27.

Don't get me wrong we are talking about 7 stakes here. But the makoto1337's behaviour was not good. It just happened to me and my friends. I can't imagine how many people did not get their stakes because of false flagging.

We don't expect to get any NEM stakes anymore tbh. And it seems no more than a scam if not failure.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

I highly suspect the majority of NEM's "devs" are really just UtopianFuture sockpuppets.  Nothing about NEM was ever "fair".  They're all a bunch of liars, cheaters and thieves.  Anyone who scams people to make money deserves to lose everything.

[NorrisK]

Boring thread, lame reply.

Nem is very good and thought through. Yes some stuff changed, just like everything changes in this world.

If you were labeled a sock puppet ot master; you took the risk, you pay the price. Not all gambles pay off.

[kennyP]

Boring thread, lame reply.

Nem is very good and thought through. Yes some stuff changed, just like everything changes in this world.

If you were labeled a sock puppet ot master; you took the risk, you pay the price. Not all gambles pay off.

so being labelled a sockpuppet makes you a sockpuppet ?

[mrvegad]

The funny thing about this sock puppet thing is that when UtopianFuture left NEM he came into irc chat and said that at one time he had 40 - 50 stakes. Around that time NEM did a socket puppet audit (think it was Pat who did it and he did a great job too, lots of time spent on it) but UtopianFuture still said he had "under 10" stakes left, he never did give a final number. Mistakes have been made in the sock puppet audit but the OP has gone out of his way to prove his side of the story, hopefully NEM does the right thing and gaves them their stakes.

[vaporware asset wizard]

The funny thing about this sock puppet thing is that when UtopianFuture left NEM he came into irc chat and said that at one time he had 40 - 50 stakes. Around that time NEM did a socket puppet audit (think it was Pat who did it and he did a great job too, lots of time spent on it) but UtopianFuture still said he had "under 10" stakes left, he never did give a final number. Mistakes have been made in the sock puppet audit but the OP has gone out of his way to prove his side of the story, hopefully NEM does the right thing and gaves them their stakes.

I never knew UP had been so forthcoming with a confession on his sock puppeteer work, is there any record of that conversation?

also, has anyone ever doxed UP? he seems to have plenty of enemies now (and supporters too). I suspect his identity was known by many supporters who later became disillusioned with his behaviour

[jwinterm]

...we are not suckpuppet...

lol suckpuppets

[box0214]

how do you prove that this was an unfair distribution? right now it's just claims unless it's documented somewhere...

[patmast3r]

makoto is far, far behind on deadling with sock appeals. If he said you'll get your stakes then you will get your stakes. He was just very busy and didn't answer evevery pm (of which he got a butload). I totally agree that all in all the whole matter was handled poorly though.

Sidenote: VPN actually wouldn't have protected you against being flagged as sockpuppet.

[patmast3r]

The funny thing about this sock puppet thing is that when UtopianFuture left NEM he came into irc chat and said that at one time he had 40 - 50 stakes. Around that time NEM did a socket puppet audit (think it was Pat who did it and he did a great job too, lots of time spent on it) but UtopianFuture still said he had "under 10" stakes left, he never did give a final number. Mistakes have been made in the sock puppet audit but the OP has gone out of his way to prove his side of the story, hopefully NEM does the right thing and gaves them their stakes.

I never knew UP had been so forthcoming with a confession on his sock puppeteer work, is there any record of that conversation?

also, has anyone ever doxed UP? he seems to have plenty of enemies now (and supporters too). I suspect his identity was known by many supporters who later became disillusioned with his behaviour

i dont know of any record. im just going by what mrvegad said in his post about 10 stakes. curious where he heard that too actually.

nope.. even the devs dont know who he is. well, unless they kept their mouths shut about it but i doubt that UP would even disclose his ID to them.. what for?

I remember him saying he still had 11 and it's up to the devs on what todo with that information. There is no way in hell he got those through the sock removals though.
Let's assume he did get those 11 through. That's prob a lot less than what he would have gotten for the work he had put in already anyway as compensation. It's not like he didn't help NEM and deserves only shit now. He never did get any reward though. Not as far as I know anyway.

[I am the guy]

Sockpuppets everywhere 

[vaporware asset wizard]

Sockpuppets everywhere 

naturally, but when it comes to puppets, not all socks are created equally

[kelsey]

i'd certainly say tis unfair distribution if 7 stakes goto the 1 IP.

[jabo38]

The funny thing about this sock puppet thing is that when UtopianFuture left NEM he came into irc chat and said that at one time he had 40 - 50 stakes. Around that time NEM did a socket puppet audit (think it was Pat who did it and he did a great job too, lots of time spent on it) but UtopianFuture still said he had "under 10" stakes left, he never did give a final number. Mistakes have been made in the sock puppet audit but the OP has gone out of his way to prove his side of the story, hopefully NEM does the right thing and gaves them their stakes.

I never knew UP had been so forthcoming with a confession on his sock puppeteer work, is there any record of that conversation?

also, has anyone ever doxed UP? he seems to have plenty of enemies now (and supporters too). I suspect his identity was known by many supporters who later became disillusioned with his behaviour

i dont know of any record. im just going by what mrvegad said in his post about 10 stakes. curious where he heard that too actually.

nope.. even the devs dont know who he is. well, unless they kept their mouths shut about it but i doubt that UP would even disclose his ID to them.. what for?

I remember him saying he still had 11 and it's up to the devs on what todo with that information. There is no way in hell he got those through the sock removals though.
Let's assume he did get those 11 through. That's prob a lot less than what he would have gotten for the work he had put in already anyway as compensation. It's not like he didn't help NEM and deserves only shit now. He never did get any reward though. Not as far as I know anyway.

Pat was your sock removal before or after UP left?  I know there was one started when he was there, but I thought yours was after.  Regardless, months after UP left and a couple of tests for sock puppets after that, Makoto kicked out another 400 or something.  Some of which were wrongly kicked out, many of which have been given back or will be given back when he gets to it.  But many of which flat out won't be.  Makoto was pretty ruthless in his sock puppet hunt errorring on the side of kicking out too many than too little.  If UP slipped passed Pat, and I'm not sure he did, Makoto's further tricks and rounds would have gotten him.

[Spoetnik]

Sounds like a flaw in the system and you got caught up in it OP (fell through the cracks ?)
I know little about NEM but maybe they should look at changing how that works ?

[DecentralizeEconomics]

i'd certainly say tis unfair distribution if 7 stakes goto the 1 IP.

"All IPs are equal, but some IPs are more equal than others."

[MadCow]

i'd certainly say tis unfair distribution if 7 stakes goto the 1 IP.

there are plenty of valid reasons for multiple stakes coming from 1 IP, so a fair and reasonable approach is to use multiple criteria to determine each case, not just IP address.

what is worse for NEM;  some guilty socks getting through, or some genuine stakeholders getting denied? if you think for a moment the answer is obvious

[makoto1337]

TLDR: Me and my colleagues were labeled as sockpuppet and we did not even get 1 stake... I provided all the evidence to makoto1337 that we are not suckpuppet accounts and he said that he is going to send our stakes but simply did not even answer after that.

We were using the same company IP when the first stake registration started. This action flagged us as suckpuppets. As you know the whole process of installing NEM (installing beta client and creating wallets) was not easy for an average Joe (and it still not easy) therefore I started creating new accounts and registered them on behalf of my colleagues. The result is our accounts flagged as suckpuppet ever since we are trying to get our stakes back! Yeah we don't have the right to use same IP when registering our NEM. We should have acted like a hacker and use vpn/proxy or something to be able to get our f... stakes.

I provided to "makoto1337" a lot of information regarding our personal info's to prove that we are not scammer's. (Linkedin profiles) I even offered conference call for meeting all the people here that we are not scammers. And he agreed and said: we can give some of you guys stakes back (not all of em) and he did not even talk ever since. His last message to me on April 27.

Don't get me wrong we are talking about 7 stakes here. But the makoto1337's behaviour was not good. It just happened to me and my friends. I can't imagine how many people did not get their stakes because of false flagging.

We don't expect to get any NEM stakes anymore tbh. And it seems no more than a scam if not failure.

Like i said, we will give back some of the stakes. I need to sit down and go through everyone's PMs all at once, so I will take care of it within the next week. Sorry for the delay, but handling redemption is a fairly complicated process. The fact that most of the marked socks have almost no activity anywhere also doesn't help with decision making.

[Kuttingcorners]

nem kicks ass i was really slow getting my shit together and i still got my coins. Probably the best deal i got in alt coins so far!

[TaunSew]

nem kicks ass i was really slow getting my shit together and i still got my coins. Probably the best deal i got in alt coins so far!

thousands of stakeholders had unrealized / realized gains between $500-$1500 for something, most of whom, had spent less than $10 for.   This all took place after the Bitcoin $1250 bubble, at a time when almost every subsequently launched alternate and IPO produced negative returns for the vast majority.  So yes NEM was really the best deal in the longest time.


As well the obsession with $Fiat value is actually a poorer indication of NEM value.  NEMstake was always valued in NXT. Today 1 genesis stake is worth around 30,000 NXT.  NEMstake on the NXT AE went from 20,000 to 50,000 IIRC.  So the price of XEM is still within historic range.


Actually it seems like the value of XEM is tied to NXT, which is not unbelievable because of how many users follow both coins.    XEM, until it implements an user adoption plan, seems to be NXT's silver.