1MB vs Gavincoin video explained in 3 minutes

[Lauda]

Why do you disagree?  Is there any other way to do it?

There is nobody "in charge" that can make a decision for everybody.  There isn't any kind of "vote" that would satisfy everybody.

Bitcoin requires consensus, and in this situation consensus is impossible.  The only option remaining is for there to be multiple separate "consensus" each with their own fork of the blockchain.  Then some measure of chaos begins while the competing ideas play out in the real world and we see what happens.
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As far as I can remember from that video that I've seen, it feel like he's trying to 'force' it. I just don't think that jumping onto XT was the right move, and it might have been planned for a long time. If the consensus is reached for XT, Mike Hearn will be in control of the development on github, right?
I'm not sure who currently in control of QT. As far as I know some commits that Gavin has proposed were denied and they are implemented in XT (what he refers to 'minor changes').
The real question is what Mike Hearn is trying to do? He wasn't really active with development AFAIK.

There is no way "out of the mess", by its very nature all protocol changing decisions in bitcoin will always be messy.  The only thing that can be done is to accept the messy nature of it, provide software that makes clear what is supported, and hold off on activating any forking changes until the system has arrived at near consensus on the matter.

The consensus requirement has always been (and always will be) one of bitcoin's biggest weaknesses.  It's a great thing for stability in design (making it nearly impossible for any single entity or group to force their own changes on the majority), but it makes advancement and improvement extremely difficult to accomplish.

So there isn't a really good solution for this. Are you sure that we are going to be reaching consensus this time? From what I can understand, if we don't have reach consensus (90%) for XT they are going to introduce "checkpoint blocks" to ignore the longest chain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB9goUDBAR0

[turvarya]

I haven't read the complete thread yet, but I have one question:
If this video was made 2 years ago, why aren't there any off-chain payment processors?
It's easy to talk about all this stuff in an academical way, but is anybody actually doing the things, they are talking about(obviously for at least 2 years)?

[not altcoin hitler]

I haven't read the complete thread yet, but I have one question:
If this video was made 2 years ago, why aren't there any off-chain payment processors?
It's easy to talk about all this stuff in an academical way, but is anybody actually doing the things, they are talking about(obviously for at least 2 years)?

I think changetip is such a thing?


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Gavincointards are going strong on this thread again ...

[turvarya]

I haven't read the complete thread yet, but I have one question:
If this video was made 2 years ago, why aren't there any off-chain payment processors?
It's easy to talk about all this stuff in an academical way, but is anybody actually doing the things, they are talking about(obviously for at least 2 years)?

I think changetip is such a thing?


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Gavincointards are going strong on this thread again ...

Can I use changetip to pay in a store? As far as I know, it's not designed for that.
I really would like to see a video of someone doing that.

[Amph]

I haven't read the complete thread yet, but I have one question:
If this video was made 2 years ago, why aren't there any off-chain payment processors?
It's easy to talk about all this stuff in an academical way, but is anybody actually doing the things, they are talking about(obviously for at least 2 years)?

i believe they were just testing it on test net, for all this time, or running it locally for further testing

it's better to prepare for a problem long before it happens

[eyeknock]

it's better to prepare for a problem long before it happens

i think thats the key, we should be ready for that problem before it happend, i still cant understand why they didnt reach a concensus and thats the part i dont like, if "we" are not together we will fail.

[not altcoin hitler]

I haven't read the complete thread yet, but I have one question:
If this video was made 2 years ago, why aren't there any off-chain payment processors?
It's easy to talk about all this stuff in an academical way, but is anybody actually doing the things, they are talking about(obviously for at least 2 years)?

I think changetip is such a thing?


-----



Gavincointards are going strong on this thread again ...

Can I use changetip to pay in a store? As far as I know, it's not designed for that.
I really would like to see a video of someone doing that.

Depends which store.

I think as blocks become  fuller we'll see more services for payment offchain. But as long as there is no demand because fees are minimal there won't be any. When fees rise and people want to save on fees such services will quickly pop up i could imagine.

Nobody opens a business for which there is no demand. If fees rise, demand for cheaper txs will also rise and with it offchain tx processors. I could imagine blockchain.info doing such a thing for example. For them it should be easy to hack together things like that as they could serve as trusted party.

There should be quite a few smart solutions for offchain txs that haven't even been developed yet because as pointed out already: there is currently no demand for it because fees are so low.

Once fees are higher and there is some real demand for that, soon businesses for that will open doors for customers.
Gavincoin wants socialist central planning when in reality the free market effects sort it all out by themselves when left alone.

[not altcoin hitler]

i think thats the key, we should be ready for that problem before it happend

Full blocks are no problem at all. At least no urgent one. Microtxs go offchain for example. Gambling for 20 cents a bet or shit like that. Recently someone sent me 10k satoshi with a message attached for coin double scam. So as long as scammers can still afford to spam the chain with their "service" there isn't a problem.
I think people underestimate a lot how many of the txs are acutally unimportant dust txs and txs under 3$.