BitShares scam2.0, Still scamming

[StanLarimer]

Hmmm.  

I didn't look real closely but I don't think any in your list are self-governing real time blockchain platforms open for others to add their own businesses and earn their own revenues...

  

[shanem]

I remembered BTS releasing BTS 2.0 last year and everyone was raving how good it was and the price increase that will follow. Now nobody cares about this coin anymore.

[testz]

I remembered BTS releasing BTS 2.0 last year and everyone was raving how good it was and the price increase that will follow. Now nobody cares about this coin anymore.

Looks like you call all this peoples https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=mlist as nobody

[Nxtblg]

Hmmm.  

I didn't look real closely but I don't think any in your list are self-governing real time blockchain platforms open for others to add their own businesses and earn their own revenues...

  

Well, you and your son are facing the same cojone-cruncher as the top management of a mining-exploration company that benefitted from earlier hype only to become boring. In that sector, a penny stock falling 70&, 80% and even 90& while the mine is still being developed is one of the oldest stories in the exploration-lore "black book."

In fact, it's my own pa who clued me into this phenomenon. He said the best way to make money in mining-exploration penny stocks is to focus in on projects that are well advanced to shovelling out salable minerals but whose stock has plummeted because the punters are dumping it and chasing the latest fad with the proceeds.

In retrospect - take this as you will - BTS was pumped way too high when it was sexy. That's why you and your fellow stakeholders have had to endure a long, grinding bear market that's got folks like me buying some, leaving it on Polo, and then dumping it later while muttering "Damn - I tried to catch the falling knife again."

But that noted, you and your son do have the same attitude as the better sort of mining-exploration CEO. Namely, "never mind the stock price: keep building up the value. One day, it'll be a sleeper that'll wake up when folks finally recognize what we've done."

[mavromixalakis]

I remembered BTS releasing BTS 2.0 last year and everyone was raving how good it was and the price increase that will follow. Now nobody cares about this coin anymore.

The fact that some whales dumped and bitshares didn't meet their objectives doesn't mean that "nobody cares about this coin".."coin"lol...what coin?? bitshares is not a coin... bitshares gives you the possibility for the first time to be able to have TRUE DECENTRALIZED MONEY (or coins if you like) like bitusd, bitcny, bitgold, bitbtc and not IOU btc of exchanges that risk to get hacked at anytime or fiat money saved in banks that risk to collapse anytime, or apply haircuts on your deposit or capital controls...

In other words we do not care about bitshares price. But we do care about what bitshares has to offer, which is decentralized fully collateralized bitassets. Assets collateralized by 200%-400% in bts value. In other words once people wake up, which will eventually wake up, and serious investors with lots of fiat money and many unbanked or small savers realize what bitshares can offer them then you will see bitshares overtake bitcoin sooner than you may think..

I don't want to start talking about other "coins" like bit-clothes, bit -oliveoil, bitoranges etc because most humans are not ready yet for that but since you are in crypto you should know better that this is where the world is going to..Now start think again about what bitshares can do..

Fundamentals don't lose in the long run..

[StanLarimer]

Well said.  We were just talking about that over on bitsharestalk.org...

Other alt coin didn't spend millions of dollars to "build features that adds values" . You can't seriously compare the downtrend with zero development shitcoins . Otherwise , you'll demonstrating that development did bitshares no good than other shitcoins .

Sometimes value is outside the control of things which are logical

Classic quote! 

Meme coins only have one life - they last as long as you can keep the meme going.

BitShares is a platform with as many lives as there are business models to be built on it.

Whenever I see a down day, I always remember this:  Are we better off now than we were when we started in 2013?

If we were willing to start a new business back then with nothing but Bitcoin to build on, how much more willing are we to start a new business today with the BitShares platform and community and team and experience to build on?  How much less does it cost to start a business with all that infrastructure in place than it did when we had nothing?

So, from our perspective, we can now do exciting new things with 10% of the resources it took to do the first one.  And so can everyone else with a vision.  Each can have its own brand and business model at a fraction of the startup costs. 

As a general purpose platform, BitShares is obviously much more useful and lower risk today than it was back when it was just a white paper. 

Those are the First Principles behind BitShares' ultimate value. 

Would we decide to invest again?  Yes!  Several times a year for the foreseeable future.

[StanLarimer]

Hmmm.  

I didn't look real closely but I don't think any in your list are self-governing real time blockchain platforms open for others to add their own businesses and earn their own revenues...

  

Well, you and your son are facing the same cojone-cruncher as the top management of a mining-exploration company that benefitted from earlier hype only to become boring. In that sector, a penny stock falling 70&, 80% and even 90& while the mine is still being developed is one of the oldest stories in the exploration-lore "black book."

In fact, it's my own pa who clued me into this phenomenon. He said the best way to make money in mining-exploration penny stocks is to focus in on projects that are well advanced to shovelling out salable minerals but whose stock has plummeted because the punters are dumping it and chasing the latest fad with the proceeds.

In retrospect - take this as you will - BTS was pumped way too high when it was sexy. That's why you and your fellow stakeholders have had to endure a long, grinding bear market that's got folks like me buying some, leaving it on Polo, and then dumping it later while muttering "Damn - I tried to catch the falling knife again."

But that noted, you and your son do have the same attitude as the better sort of mining-exploration CEO. Namely, "never mind the stock price: keep building up the value. One day, it'll be a sleeper that'll wake up when folks finally recognize what we've done."

True enough. It does take steel cojones.

It might be different if BitShares was a one-trick pony, but viewed as a platform, all that is already in place stands to benefit from every new application built on it and every such application stands to benefit from the ecosystem that it gets to start with on Day One.

The altcoin market is all about speculating on what amounts to pet rocks and other such fads.  BitShares is a business that just happens to trade on the same exchanges with pet rocks.  We're in it for the long haul and in the long haul exponential growth of actual utility overpowers decay of speculative novelty.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

The fact that some whales dumped and bitshares didn't meet their objectives doesn't mean that "nobody cares about this coin".."coin"lol...what coin?? bitshares is not a coin...

while shares are worth pennies

That's right they're "SHARES" and they're "WORTH PENNIES".  Lol

bitshares gives you the possibility for the first time to be able to have TRUE DECENTRALIZED MONEY (or coins if you like) like bitusd, bitcny, bitgold, bitbtc and not IOU btc of exchanges that risk to get hacked at anytime or fiat money saved in banks that risk to collapse anytime, or apply haircuts on your deposit or capital controls...

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17354.0.html

I may also seize brownie points from any account if you fall out of favor and anyone who complains in any way about how Brownie Points are issued or how I use Brownie Points is certainly not in my favor and may lose any Brownie Points they have earned.  -Bytemaster, Dan Larimer

Yes, your funds are perfectly safe with the Larimer Gang.

[mavromixalakis]

right....I was talking about TRUE DECENTRALIZED fully collaterilized market pegged assets such as bitusd,bitbtc,bitgold backed by bts collateral and you gave me back that quote with brownies which is a User issued asset!!

Clearly you are a trolling here so no point for me to continue this discussion with you.. Unless you really have no idea between market pegged assets and User Issued Asset and have no idea what you are talking about here so I will be happy to explain you..

[altcoinUK]

right....I was talking about TRUE DECENTRALIZED fully collaterilized market pegged assets such as bitusd,bitbtc,bitgold backed by bts collateral and you gave me back that quote with brownies which is a User issued asset!!

Clearly you are a trolling here so no point for me to continue this discussion with you.. Unless you really have no idea between market pegged assets and User Issued Asset and have no idea what you are talking about here so I will be happy to explain you..

I think what DecentralizeEconomics says is that in the case of a scam there is no point to talk about technicalities such as "collaterilized market pegged assets" and "User Issued Asset", but that guy with the baseball bat could describes the situation a lot better than nonsensical technicalities. In fact, it is quite hilarious that when there is a complete collapse terms of price and nobody is interested in the Bitshares technology in the real world outside of this scam driven crypto universe, then you are talking about "collaterilized market pegged assets" and "User Issued Asset", like such nonsenses would really matter in a real world economic process. It's like selling worthless polar bear shit to Eskimos by promising that some day the polar bear shit will turn to gold and then start analysing the economy model behind the polar bear shit to gold transformation process. (I mean in the view of the sceptics like DecentralizeEconomics the Bitshare process is something like that)

I don't own Bitshares, but I always thought the tech is quite promising and (though I could be wrong) it seems to me Dan Larimer is quite a decent and honest man, he doesn't come cross as a scammer.

I don't say Bitshare is a scam, on the other hand I fully understand why DecentralizeEconomics is sceptical. Those many money collecting parties from the Bitshare crew raise the alarm of scam and it doesnt give a good name to crypto currencies general. Especially in this scam driven crypto excrement market where 99% of the projects are pure fraud. Yes, yes, it was delivered something and yes, software development cost money, however the sceptics would be less agitated if some tech would be delivered without constantly pulling money from the supporters pocket. I am sure you are aware that there are hundreds of successful open source projects in which the developers volunteer to contribute, but it seems the Bitshares team can't develop software without luring the supporters into questionable and not profitable investments ... and I can fully understand why many observers like DecentralizeEconomics think that's not cool.

[StanLarimer]

2013 development was funded by private Invictus investor funds.
2014 development was funded by supporters donations and advanced BitShares as far as the funds would take us.
2015 development of Graphene was funded by private Cryptonomex stakeholders and given to BitShares for BitShares 2.0.
2016 development will be a mix of private Cryptonomex investor funds and whatever BitShares stakeholders vote to fund for us to pursue their priorities.

So it would be inaccurate to claim that we are pulling money from supporters pockets.  People who are owners of BitShares decide what they want to see developed and what they want to pay for.  Otherwise Cryptonomex uses its own funds to pay for what will benefit Cryptonomex investors. 

Continued professional development requires continued efforts to earn revenue and raise additional rounds of capital so developers can afford to eat. Otherwise, they tend to quit and go to Google.  Only a fraction of Cryptonomex developers salaries are paid in actual cash.  The rest is sweat equity. 

This is true for most startup companies and especially true when the results of the effort are given away to the public.

Skepticism has its place, but only after you have solid facts. 

[altcoinUK]

2013 development was funded by private Invictus investor funds.
2014 development was funded by supporters donations and advanced BitShares as far as the funds would take us.
2015 development of Graphene was funded by private Cryptonomex stakeholders and given to BitShares for BitShares 2.0.
2016 development will be a mix of private Cryptonomex investor funds and whatever BitShares stakeholders vote to fund for us to pursue their priorities.

So you have been continuously asking money for software development prior to delivering anything and then you have delivered something which most likely won't be ever used in any real world economic process. Therefore, you shouldn't be surprised that sceptics like DecentralizeEconomics start to talk about the feasibility of your business plan or wondering whether your project is a scam or not.

Continued professional development requires continued efforts to earn revenue and raise additional rounds of capital so developers can afford to eat. Otherwise, they tend to quit and go to Google.  Only a fraction of Cryptonomex developers salaries are paid in actual cash.  The rest is sweat equity.  

It's quite confusing. First you said, you need to pay otherwise the developers will move on. And then you are saying that you actually pay with sweat equity. Anyway, the question is, if the compensation is mainly sweat equity why the hell you have collected hundreds of thousand or millions of dollars?

Continued professional development requires continued efforts to earn revenue and raise additional rounds of capital so developers can afford to eat. Otherwise, they tend to quit and go to Google.

In the meantime you are saying that "Only a fraction of Cryptonomex developers salaries are paid in actual cash".
Anyway, you are on a forum where software development drives the process, the audience understand software development and what software engineering is, in fact many of us have been in this business for decades. So I think it is not necessary to point out that software development cost money - we understand that. On the other hand, as I said there are many-many successful open source projects which solely relies on voluntary contribution. It was up to you which model you were implementing and it says a lot about your methods that you have been continuously collecting money. Which matters, the fact is that after 3 years nobody is using your technology, and I am sorry, but such result (zero usage) could be achieved with a completely voluntary software development model (i.e. without collecting money).

Again, I am not saying you are a scammer, I understand  Dan Larimer is a super talented and super intelligent individual and I said your tech has many interesting elements, however I think it is quite clear that fucking money collecting parties like yours bring nothing but troubles to crypto currencies. No wonder after 7 years we have less user base (few hundred thousands users including BTC) than a small size social media web platform.

[StanLarimer]

It always amazes me how little understanding there is about the Facts of Life in business.

You start a business, you raise a small amount of funds, you build an alpha prototype, you raise a second round, you build a beta, you raise another round, and you continue to bootstrap your business until it gets traction.  Along the way you look for products and services you can sell to raise funds to keep going without further fund raising.  Eventually you become self-sustaining and start to turn a profit for all your investors.

If you want to attract great talent and keep them making rapid progress they expect to be paid.  So you negotiate some combination of salary and equity that they are willing to take a great risk for.  That varies over time and with what suits each individual.

Without funding, you are limited to the pool of talent that is willing to work part time or for free. Because of our fundraising, BitShares actually has a mix of both.  It has tons of volunteers and third party entrepreneurs doing their own things.  And it has Cryptonomex doing the heavy lifting on the core development with a small team of professional developers.

Throughout this whole process, progress has been observable by all stakeholders in an open source Github library where knowledgable programmers can evaluate the steady progress.  100% of the money raised so far has gone into developing the platform, PLUS a ton of sweat equity and private investor funds on top of that.  

As of last fall, the decentralized business we call "BitShares" was turned over to its shareholders who are now determining its future path.  They are free to hire Cryptonomex, one of several software development companies associated with BitShares, to continue development or select any mix of other developers.  Whether Cryptonomex is hired by BitShares or not (we have been) Cryptonomex plans to build all sorts of new business models on top of the public BitShares platform over time.  These businesses become tenants on the BitShares platform which is how the platform makes money via a share of fees.  So as we add businesses, the profitability of BitShares grows.  And you gradually build up a network effect just like every big company you've ever heard of.

But it's no longer just a Cryptonomex project.  We welcome other entrepreneurs who want to take advantage of all the technical and business infrastructure the BitShares community has already put in place.  All the on/off ramps and other services that are already available so that a person with a cool idea doesn't have to develop all that from scratch.

That's our business model.  Like building a shopping mall and installing a few anchor businesses and then opening it up to all sorts of other businesses that want to move into a ready-built infrastructure.  Only this mall is designed to scale, with virtually unlimited space for new businesses over time.

So, at this point, we are just getting started.  

[CoinHoarder]

@altcoinUK

The cryptocurrencies that have been developed purely by volunteers at no cost to the stakeholders are years behind Bitshares on a technological level. Hell, the same could be said for almost all cryptocurrencies that have raised thousands to millions of dollars. Feel free to take a look... the feature set: https://bitshares.org/technology/ or the fully featured web wallet: https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/

Being on the cutting edge of technology has a price. Cryptocurrency speculators are historically used to the development of their cryptocurrency being funded by donations. Historically, a small percentage of stakeholders donate a measly fee and in return they get unimpressive development which is developed at a snails pace. Bitshares operates differently... and that frightens people. People are mostly afraid of change and cheap. Most are afraid to spend a dollar now to make ten dollars down the road.

It take big balls to be a Bitshares investor, as Bitshares has done things differently and refused to conform since its inception. We do not buy tokens and pray that a greater fool comes along and buys them at a higher price like most other cryptocurrencies. In Bitshares, stakeholders buy tokens and then donate a portion of said tokens to the development of a cutting edge cryptocurrency, which in turn has consequently positioned itself to thrive in the years to come of the "cryptocurrency wars".

Most cryptocurrencies can only dream of having the technological capabilities that Bitshares has already implemented, and the truly scary part... Bitshares stakeholders are not done yet. We are still funding the development of next generation features with both feet on the gas pedal. You feel free to bag hold your cryptocurrency that is developed at a snails pace with unimpressive results, and we will send rations down to your starving earthling population from the moon. The price is quite unimpressive right now and has been falling for quit some time, but that is because we are in the process of throwing the weak hands off the rocket ship so we can approach our final destination (the moon.)

People are intimidated by Bitshares, as evidenced by this thread and all of the sock puppets posting in it. We are real competitors in the cryptocurrency space, and they are scared of that. They have even gone so far as to penetrate our own forums to try and inject negativity into every conversation. Fear Bitshares bagholders, as the fools that play a part in the greater fool theory will eventually dry up and the quality blockchains will rise above the rest.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

right....I was talking about TRUE DECENTRALIZED fully collaterilized market pegged assets such as bitusd,bitbtc,bitgold backed by bts collateral and you gave me back that quote with brownies which is a User issued asset!!

Well, I'm so happy to hear that ONLY "user issued assets" are able to be confiscated.  This sounds totally "Safer than a Swiss Bank" TM.  I'm sure only Dan has the private keys to everyone's wallets and nobody else.... oh, wait... Stan has access to the keys too, but I'm sure nobody else... oh, wait... Dan's mother sometimes uses his computer too, but I'm sure nobody else has access... oh wait... those Chicom "business" associates do too, but I'm that's totally it... and the Chicom govt too... don't worry about it... oh wait, yeah you know that weird dude that sat in the booth behind Dan while he used the free wifi at McDonalds... well, he has access to those keys too, but he seemed like a cool guy... srlsy guise, that's it nobody else has access... trust us... this is totally "safer than a swiss bank"

BitShares.  
Safer than a Swiss Bank.  
(Ask me why!)

This is crypto.  It shouldn't matter whether it's a "market pegged asset" (btw, it's not "fully collateralized") or a "user based asset".  Nobody should be able to confiscate money from others on a whim.  The fact that Dan said he was willing to take money from others based on his personal opinion of their attitude means that he doesn't truly care about the ideology behind crypto.  They just want your fiat.  You know that phrase "Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks."   Does that ring a bell with you?

Just wait for it.  I'm sure that eventually (if they haven't cashed out and abandoned Bitshares... oh wait, haven't they done that already with Cryptonomex Inc?) the Larimers and their Chicom associates will enable "market pegged asset" confiscations because of "pick your own fabricated reason".  If you doubt this, remember they're in league with the CHINESE COMMUNISTS.  You know those guys who banned selling on their "stock exchanges".  What a crock.

Blah... Blah... Blah... Bitshares is AMAZING!  1,000,000x ROI!  WOW!!!!  THE FUTURE OF CRYPTO!

Your post is laughable.  What a bunch of ridiculous techno-babble.  Nobody is scared of Bitshares and nobody is ever going to use Bitshares because all you have done is eliminate counterparty risk at the cost of greatly increasing systematic risk.  Too bad for you that counterparty risk is already 99.99% mitigated in modern trading systems.  Besides, srsly, who is going to buy 1 BitUSD for 2 real USD?

[CoinHoarder]

Blah... Blah... Blah... Bitshares is AMAZING!  1,000,000x ROI!  WOW!!!!  THE FUTURE OF CRYPTO!

Your post is laughable.  What a bunch of ridiculous techno-babble.

Compelling argument, you should sign up for the debate team at your elementary school.

Nobody is scared of Bitshares

You are not scared of Bitshares? To my knowledge you are a huge Nxt shill. You have to be jealous that Bitshares has one-upped Nxt in numerous ways... a better PoS implementation, a larger market cap than Nxt, more volume and liquidity than Nxt, more quality innovation than Nxt, more development than Nxt, more features than Nxt, a much prettier wallet than Nxt, etc... no, of course you're not scared.

You've only spent hours- no days- no weeks- trolling about how terrible Bitshares is because you have a heart of gold and want to play the white knight of alternative cryptocurrencies, saving the defenceless lambs that inhabit these subforums. You being the perfect little angel that you are have no ulterior motives. Get real... why else would you dedicate you entire existence to FUDing Bitshares any chance you can get? You must of spent days doing so, and you have no incentive, huh? You're just a stand up guy... Puh-leeeez.

and nobody is ever going to use Bitshares because all you have done is eliminate counterparty risk at the cost of greatly increasing systematic risk. Too bad for you that counterparty risk is already 99.99% mitigated in modern trading systems.

People are using Bitshares right now, so your statement is at the very least misleading. "Greatly increasing systematic risks" is yet another exaggeration. Smartcoins have very closely resembled the value of their real life counter parts for almost 2 years. When will this systematic risk you speak of come into play? You probably shouldn't go outside because it greatly increases your chances of getting hit by lightning too.  

You champion Nxt, and at the same time ignore all of the systematic risk that their implementations of different features introduce. The "modern trading systems" introduce systematic risks as well yet you don't mention that. You are such a hypocrite, as further evidenced by you recently championing Synereo when they have yet to prove anything to anyone.. there is much more risk in Synereo at this point than an established cryptocurrency like Bitshares.

Besides, srsly, who is going to buy 1 BitUSD for 2 real USD?

No one, because they can buy 1 bitUSD for $1.053 USD right now on Bitshares' decentralized exchange. All of your statements are grossly exaggerated with the purpose of spreading FUD about Bitshares. I'm not sure exactly what your motives are, and maybe I'm wrong about you trying to prop up your Nxt investment, but your intentions are crystal clear. I can see right through you and your sock puppets.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

Nobody is scared of Bitshares

You are not scared of Bitshares? To my knowledge you are a huge Nxt shill. You have to be jealous that Bitshares has one-upped Nxt in numerous ways... a better PoS implementation, a larger market cap than Nxt, more volume and liquidity than Nxt, more quality innovation than Nxt, more development than Nxt, more features than Nxt, a much prettier wallet than Nxt, etc... no, of course you're not scared.

You've only spent hours- no days- no weeks- trolling about how terrible Bitshares is because you have a heart of gold and want to play the white knight of alternative cryptocurrencies, saving the defenceless lambs that inhabit these subforums. You being the perfect little angel that you are have no ulterior motives. Get real... why else would you dedicate you entire existence to FUDing Bitshares any chance you can get? You must of spent days doing so, and you have no incentive, huh? You're just a stand up guy... Puh-leeeez.

Yes, you're right, I like NXT.  I think NXT has the better PoS implementation unless you like your blockchain monopolized via a fraudulent voting system.  I don't like the NXT Foundation or the centralization that has occurred in NXT's marketing just like I don't like the centralization that is so evident in Bitshares.  I have spent a lot of time on here complaining about Bitshares.  What can I say?  This is where I get my entertainment.  Also, I don't like liars, cheaters or thieves and I'm going to call it like I see it.

and nobody is ever going to use Bitshares because all you have done is eliminate counterparty risk at the cost of greatly increasing systematic risk. Too bad for you that counterparty risk is already 99.99% mitigated in modern trading systems.

People are using Bitshares right now, so your statement is at the very least misleading. "Greatly increasing systematic risks" is yet another exaggeration. Smartcoins have very closely resembled the value of their real life counter parts for almost 2 years. When will this systematic risk you speak of come into play? You probably shouldn't go outside because it greatly increases your chances of getting hit by lightning too.  

You champion Nxt, and at the same time ignore all of the systematic risk that their implementations of different features introduce. The "modern trading systems" introduce systematic risks as well yet you don't mention that.

Besides, srsly, who is going to buy 1 BitUSD for 2 real USD?

No one, because they can buy 1 bitUSD for $1.053 USD right now on the Bitshares' decentralized exchange. All of your statements are grossly exaggerated with the purposed to spread FUD about Bitshares. I'm not sure exactly what your motives are, and maybe I'm wrong about you trying to prop up your Nxt investment, but your intentions are crystal clear.

If you don't get what I'm talking about, go read Preston Byrne's analysis of Bitshares.

BitSharesX: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
Well I’ll be damned: BTSX BitAsset market failure after only 5 days
Those who cannot remember last week are condemned to repeat it

You are such a hypocrite, as further evidenced by you recently championing Synereo when they have yet to prove anything to anyone.. there is much more risk in Synereo at this point than an established cryptocurrency like Bitshares.

How does my support for Synereo, a decentralized social network, make me a hypocrite?  Here's the link to github https://github.com/synereo/.  As far as I know, there are no backdoors and nobody can confiscate anybody's AMPs.

[tokeweed]

Quot fudding guys..  You just made the Larimers themselves dump their coins!

[favdesu]

For business

Paypal is cheaper

stopped reading there. you obviously have no idea on fee structures of payment processors.

[entertheabyss]

For business

Paypal is cheaper

stopped reading there. you obviously have no idea on fee structures of payment processors.

paypal's fee is a lot less than 20%

The business they grow is the business they own - and for this the BitSharesholders charge 20% for maintaining the world's most cost effective blockchain platform.