BitShares scam2.0, Still scamming

[DecentralizeEconomics]

Quot fudding guys..  You just made the Larimers themselves dump their coins!

Lol You know it's true!

Why I like Ethereum

Posted by Daniel Larimer on  December 30, 2015.

One Week Later

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[entertheabyss]

No one, because they can buy 1 bitUSD for $1.053 USD right now on Bitshares' decentralized exchange.

$1.053 USD is a 5.3% variance. As i check on coinmarketcap now i see it listed at 1.04usd or a 4% variance.
Compare that to Tether (USDT) at 1.00 USD and NuBits (NBT) at $ 0.997296 or .27% variance.

NuBits is a superior system as it more closely maintains the peg (according to data on CMC)and does not have the systematic risk associated with BitUSD and other bitshares collateralized assets.

[RaginglikeaBoss]

A team of lawyers and accountants guides our every step.

Please, provide their information so I may look up their credentials.

Because I see no need to invest any further than I already have thinking this is an illegally run securities exchange.

[zPanda]

Just invested 0.5 BTC into DASH, I got scammed by an online wallet dash-wallet.com.

Fuck.

[testz]

No one, because they can buy 1 bitUSD for $1.053 USD right now on Bitshares' decentralized exchange.

$1.053 USD is a 5.3% variance. As i check on coinmarketcap now i see it listed at 1.04usd or a 4% variance.
Compare that to Tether (USDT) at 1.00 USD and NuBits (NBT) at $ 0.997296 or .27% variance.

NuBits is a superior system as it more closely maintains the peg (according to data on CMC)and does not have the systematic risk associated with BitUSD and other bitshares collateralized assets.

It's heavy to compare trustless BitUSD with NuBits, Tether systems.

But if your compare NuBits and Tether acording CMC data the Tether looks much better.

[RaginglikeaBoss]

No one, because they can buy 1 bitUSD for $1.053 USD right now on Bitshares' decentralized exchange.

$1.053 USD is a 5.3% variance. As i check on coinmarketcap now i see it listed at 1.04usd or a 4% variance.
Compare that to Tether (USDT) at 1.00 USD and NuBits (NBT) at $ 0.997296 or .27% variance.

NuBits is a superior system as it more closely maintains the peg (according to data on CMC)and does not have the systematic risk associated with BitUSD and other bitshares collateralized assets.

It's heavy to compare trustless BitUSD with NuBits, Tether systems.

But if your compare NuBits and Tether acording CMC data the Tether looks much better.

BitUSD has proven it's useless due to an incompetent peg system.

[CoinHoarder]

I am an investor in both Nushares and Bitshares. I don't own more than 6% of my portfolio in any certain ALT cryptocurrency. I just like to defend Bitshares because it is a great project and there aren't many people to defend it on here and a lot of religious Bitshares' FUDers.

With that being said, your "arguments" are hilariously ridiculous. Unfortunately, you make me FUD something of which I am a shareholder. Don't get me wrong... I like Nushares/Nubits for certain reasons, but some of your statements are delusional, and both Nushares/Nubits solution and Bitshares solution both have their pros and cons.

No one, because they can buy 1 bitUSD for $1.053 USD right now on Bitshares' decentralized exchange.

$1.053 USD is a 5.3% variance. As i check on coinmarketcap now i see it listed at 1.04usd or a 4% variance.

I never said there was an exact peg, I said that a smartcoins' value closely resembles that of their real life counterparts. That is not a very big amount of variance, especially considering people are willing to buy that bitUSD back from you above $1. Currently the highest ask is $1.0322775, so that's less than a 2% spread. Pretty impressive really for a fully decentralized derivative.

Compare that to Tether (USDT) at 1.00 USD

Yes, centralized solutions can hold a tighter peg. What is your point? Bitshares is a decentralized solution...

and NuBits (NBT) at $ 0.997296 or .27% variance.

NuBits is a superior system as it more closely maintains the peg (according to data on CMC)

While it is true that Nubits more closely maintains its peg and has more volume/liquidity, Smartcoins will improve in those categories over time as they are more widely adopted. Nubits dilutes Nushares' shareholders to provide that liquidity, so their added liquidity comes at a cost.

Furthermore, Smartcoins are better suited for trading numerous assets- with the Nushares/Nubits it is a PITA to peg different smart contracts to different assets. There is a reason they are only planning on expanding into several currencies- EUR, CNY, and the basket FIAT index.. whatever it's called. With Smartcoins you can easily issue a derivative that closely resembles the value of anything without much effort- Oil, Potatoes, Silver, Gold, S&P, Nasdaq, any FIAT, etcetra. This is not possible with Nushares/Nubits solution without setting up an elaborate network of market makers which do indeed introduce systematic risks contrary to your statement below (among other systematic risks involved with Nubits/Nushares.)

Smartcoins are backed by at least 200% collateral worth of BTS tokens. Nubits is backed by a promise that the Nubits will be bought back for a little less than $1, and you say there is no systematic risks...  

Nubits ... does not have the systematic risk associated with BitUSD and other bitshares collateralized assets.

You obviously do not understand how Nubits or Bitshares holds its peg if you think this. This statement is pure blasphemy I'm not even going to waste my time refuting it. Everyone can do their own research.

BitUSD has proven it's useless due to an incompetent peg system.

What an uneducated & baseless statement... what does "incompetent peg system" even mean? Please inform us commoners.

[RaginglikeaBoss]

BitUSD has proven it's useless due to an incompetent peg system.

What an uneducated & baseless statement... what does "incompetent peg system" even mean? Please inform us commoners.

Well, for us plebs it means that it has never, yes the data in the charts proves this, been pegged to the USD.

A peg is a simple concept.  I'm not sure how else a pleb like me can elaborate on this concept so you understand.  Meanwhile the charts are staring you right in the face.

[CoinHoarder]

BitUSD has proven it's useless due to an incompetent peg system.

What an uneducated & baseless statement... what does "incompetent peg system" even mean? Please inform us commoners.

Well, for us plebs it means that it has never, yes the data in the charts proves this, been pegged to the USD.

A peg is a simple concept.  I'm not sure how else a pleb like me can elaborate on this concept so you understand.  Meanwhile the charts are staring you right in the face.

I can't read your mind, so unless you explain your point there's no way for me (or anyone else) to refute or understand it. Interesting debate tactic though.  

[RaginglikeaBoss]

BitUSD has proven it's useless due to an incompetent peg system.

What an uneducated & baseless statement... what does "incompetent peg system" even mean? Please inform us commoners.

Well, for us plebs it means that it has never, yes the data in the charts proves this, been pegged to the USD.

A peg is a simple concept.  I'm not sure how else a pleb like me can elaborate on this concept so you understand.  Meanwhile the charts are staring you right in the face.

I can't read your mind, so unless you explain your point there's no way for me (or anyone else) to refute or understand it. Interesting debate tactic. 

1 USD != 1 BitUSD.

That is a fact and has been for months worth of data.

Your turn.

[CoinHoarder]

1 USD != 1 BitUSD.

That is a fact and has been for months worth of data.

Your turn.

It is impossible to directly peg a token exactly to the value of any asset while still remaining decentralized. However, Nushares/Nubits and Bitshares' Smartcoins have closely held their peg for years now. They are not exact pegs, but they are close enough for the value to remain stable. Bitshares has been in a bear market for over a year now, however 1 bitUSD is still within approximately 5% value of a US dollar with an approximately 3% spread on the bid/ask sides. bitUSD is designed to closely resemble the value of a dollar, while at the same time being worth at least one US dollar. In a bear market, people can expect to pay a small premium by design.

https://bitshares.org/technology/price-stable-cryptocurrencies/

The very first buyer of BitUSD will have to pay the lowest premium set by the shorters. For the sake of discussion, let’s assume the first BitUSD was created in a bear market and cost $1.05 to create. The holder of that BitUSD has two options: sell it on the market for $1.04, or request forced settlement for $1.00. Clearly, the forced settlement option would only be used in situations where there was a decrease in total demand for BitUSD and there were no offers to buy it above $1.00.

As a trader only looking to trade back and forth between BitUSD and BTS, this premium doesn’t matter. Such as trader is exposed to volatility in the premium, but that risk is limited to $0.05 in this example. In practice, the premium is expected to be relatively stable and predictable.

I do not understand how you can call Smartcoins a failure unless you too are simply FUDing or trolling here.

[RaginglikeaBoss]

Saying it's still within 5% and of course explaining that premiums occur during certain markets is by definition not a pegged asset.  The concept is incredibly simple.

[CoinHoarder]

Nobody is scared of Bitshares

You are not scared of Bitshares? To my knowledge you are a huge Nxt shill. You have to be jealous that Bitshares has one-upped Nxt in numerous ways... a better PoS implementation, a larger market cap than Nxt, more volume and liquidity than Nxt, more quality innovation than Nxt, more development than Nxt, more features than Nxt, a much prettier wallet than Nxt, etc... no, of course you're not scared.

You've only spent hours- no days- no weeks- trolling about how terrible Bitshares is because you have a heart of gold and want to play the white knight of alternative cryptocurrencies, saving the defenceless lambs that inhabit these subforums. You being the perfect little angel that you are have no ulterior motives. Get real... why else would you dedicate you entire existence to FUDing Bitshares any chance you can get? You must of spent days doing so, and you have no incentive, huh? You're just a stand up guy... Puh-leeeez.

Yes, you're right, I like NXT.  I think NXT has the better PoS implementation unless you like your blockchain monopolized via a fraudulent voting system.  I don't like the NXT Foundation or the centralization that has occurred in NXT's marketing just like I don't like the centralization that is so evident in Bitshares.  I have spent a lot of time on here complaining about Bitshares.  What can I say?  This is where I get my entertainment.  Also, I don't like liars, cheaters or thieves and I'm going to call it like I see it.

All cryptocurrencies trend towards centralization. PoW cryptocurrencies tend towards centralization due to the economies of scale that surround mining. PoS coins tend towards centralization to large stakeholders. Bitshares views centralization as an inevitability, and maintains it should be embraced and leveraged rather than fought. You obviously have an issue with this, but there is no scam involved as you state. This is out in the open and Daniel has admitted this since very early in Bitshares' existence.

You focus on one of the few shortcomings of dPoS while ignoring the numerous benefits. The stakeholders can hire employees. In other words, stakeholders can choose who profits off of (and how much) securing the blockchain. They can choose the people that provide the most value to stakeholders (support, development, advertising, documentation, web development, services, etc..) In Bitcoin and other forms of PoS, you have no control over who profits from securing the blockchain and whether their best interests are aligned with stakeholders (or not.) Since the 101 witnesses maintain consensus amongst themselves it allows for a highly scalable blockchain.. the most scalable blockchain that currently exists. We have reached over 500 TPS at peak and around 100 TPS stable. No other cryptocurrency that exists in the wild can claim that.

You say the Larimers are in control, yet in actuality Bitshares stakeholders are happy to have CNX in control. This is evidenced by witness voting, as CNX can be overruled at any time if the stakeholders so choose (since they own less than a 13% stake.) Bitshares stakeholders trust CNX to do the right thing and deliver because they have in the past and have proven themselves, and in the event they do not then stakeholders can remove them from power. That is the beauty of delegated proof of stake, and how it is supposed to work. That's cool if you don't like that, but to call them liars and thieves and/or Bitshares a scam because of that is disingenuous in the least considering everything is out in the open and done transparently.

Besides, srsly, who is going to buy 1 BitUSD for 2 real USD?

No one, because they can buy 1 bitUSD for $1.053 USD right now on the Bitshares' decentralized exchange. All of your statements are grossly exaggerated with the purposed to spread FUD about Bitshares. I'm not sure exactly what your motives are, and maybe I'm wrong about you trying to prop up your Nxt investment, but your intentions are crystal clear.

If you don't get what I'm talking about, go read Preston Byrne's analysis of Bitshares.

BitSharesX: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
Well I’ll be damned: BTSX BitAsset market failure after only 5 days
Those who cannot remember last week are condemned to repeat it

Preston Byrne is an idiot FUDer that just wanted attention like you, and he has been proven wrong thus far since SmartCoins (formerly bitAssets) have maintained their peg for almost two years now. Linking to those blog posts, which are heavily weighted in personal opinion, as definitive proof that Smartcoins are broken is hilarious. Especially considering there is factual data that proves Smartcoins have closely resembled the value of their real life counterparts for almost 2 years. Yet, those opinion pieces are obviously correct so lets disregard all of the factual data and base our opinion on someone else's opinion.  

You are such a hypocrite, as further evidenced by you recently championing Synereo when they have yet to prove anything to anyone.. there is much more risk in Synereo at this point than an established cryptocurrency like Bitshares.

How does my support for Synereo, a decentralized social network, make me a hypocrite?  Here's the link to github https://github.com/synereo/.  As far as I know, there are no backdoors and nobody can confiscate anybody's AMPs.

Synereo is largely unproven at this point. So you're telling me you've read the source code line for line and understand it already? LOL. You should probably give it more than a few months before declaring that there are no backdoors.. no one reputable has been able to review the source code yet. Let's wait and see if they deliver before championing them, because at this point it's vaporware. Many projects have released open sourced code and have yet to launch after years of development. Stating vaporware is a better investment than a cryptocurrency that is battle and time tested, has built a network effect, community, services, supporting companies and ecosystem, etc... is a ridiculous statement in which rationality is negated by your personal vendetta against Bitshares.

[CoinHoarder]

Saying it's still within 5% and of course explaining that premiums occur during certain markets is by definition not a pegged asset.  The concept is incredibly simple.

It is as close to the real thing that exists without either:

A. Paying people to more closely maintain the peg like Nushares/Nubits does (and diluting Nushares stakeholders to do so)

or

B. Centralizing the process like Tether


The fact of the matter is the market pegs are working with a small spread. That spread is inevitable while maintaining the decentralized nature of Smartcoins/Nubits. Unless you have a better solution (do please share), then you are making much ado about nothing here. Congrats on making a few ridiculously ignorant posts (that are seemingly genuine) for your signature campaign though.

[RaginglikeaBoss]

I do have a solution, but a dumb fucking pleb such as myself doesn't need you, but for everyone else:  it's called USD - yeah, they are new and come in both physical and digital form.  They are the perfect peg for those wanting to hedg their cryptocurrency holdings with fiat currencies such as the USD.



Now remind me why BitUSD isn't an inherently useless asset, that borderline a on scam, let alone running an unlicensed and uninsured securities exchange (because that's exactly what assets on BitShare are), and the fact we have no way of speaking with the team's lawyers to request LEGALLY REQUIRED paperwork upon request regarding an investor prospectus.

Kthbai.

[bhokor]

Well, i think the real problem bitshare will have to face soon if this project conitues growing is the legal problem, there are not actually a clear legislation about cryptos, it is a real danger, some day we can wake up with financial authorities attacking Bitshares, probably the smart way for avoid it woul be look for a "friendly" jurisdiction if not it is only a time question

[Pheonike]

No one, because they can buy 1 bitUSD for $1.053 USD right now on Bitshares' decentralized exchange.

$1.053 USD is a 5.3% variance. As i check on coinmarketcap now i see it listed at 1.04usd or a 4% variance.
Compare that to Tether (USDT) at 1.00 USD and NuBits (NBT) at $ 0.997296 or .27% variance.

NuBits is a superior system as it more closely maintains the peg (according to data on CMC)and does not have the systematic risk associated with BitUSD and other bitshares collateralized assets.

It's heavy to compare trustless BitUSD with NuBits, Tether systems.

But if your compare NuBits and Tether acording CMC data the Tether looks much better.

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/DF8zf0E.png

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/DF7pfDd.png

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/DFy6UBA.png

You are expose to 3rd party centralize risk with them. Where as with Bitshares it's in theory a system risk.  So you have to decide what's is more likely, Bitshares crashing and disappearing or some central players in the others system running away with the money.

[Pheonike]

Saying it's still within 5% and of course explaining that premiums occur during certain markets is by definition not a pegged asset.  The concept is incredibly simple.

A pegged asset by definition has 3rd party risk. A peg has to be enforce by something. Bitshares uses the free market to maintain the value. The others rely on some central authority to maintain. So you have to decide what do you trust more, the free market or group of individuals to fair and honest?

[Pheonike]

I do have a solution, but a dumb fucking pleb such as myself doesn't need you, but for everyone else:  it's called USD - yeah, they are new and come in both physical and digital form.  They are the perfect peg for those wanting to hedg their cryptocurrency holdings with fiat currencies such as the USD.

http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/35100000/mind-blown-random-35174808-400-400.jpg

Now remind me why BitUSD isn't an inherently useless asset, that borderline a on scam, let alone running an unlicensed and uninsured securities exchange (because that's exactly what assets on BitShare are), and the fact we have no way of speaking with the team's lawyers to request LEGALLY REQUIRED paperwork upon request regarding an investor prospectus.

Kthbai.

A USD can be seized and taken from you with force. A bitUSD lives on the blockchain and can not be seized. Would you trust your BTC with a 3rd party that has control of it or in your wallet with a private key that only you have? That's the difference between USD and bitUSD. Your bitUSD can't be seized or taken from you.

[Pheonike]

Well, i think the real problem bitshare will have to face soon if this project conitues growing is the legal problem, there are not actually a clear legislation about cryptos, it is a real danger, some day we can wake up with financial authorities attacking Bitshares, probably the smart way for avoid it woul be look for a "friendly" jurisdiction if not it is only a time question

All cryptos have that problem.