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Author Topic: BFL SC / Jally first picture?  (Read 25804 times)
CubedRoot
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September 19, 2012, 02:12:33 PM
 #141

Why are there so many fucking shady ass people involved in Bitcoin?  Makes me really re-consider what I should do with my BFL ASIC Single pre-order I made months ago.  I was really hoping BFL was a clean company struggling with the demands of high demand, but it seems its a company shrouded in mystery, ran by scammers who deal with illegal gambling software and Ponzi schemes.

Inaba, I really feel for you.  What BFL needs is a COO that knows how to spin the media.  After reading your posts, you certainly don't present yourself as someone representing a company that does millions of dollars in revenue.
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September 19, 2012, 02:27:06 PM
 #142

I guess they are a little behind schedule but will deliver end of 2012...  Roll Eyes
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September 19, 2012, 02:39:58 PM
 #143

I hope when they grab and run at the end of 2012, they'll call it "Operation ASICS", you know, like the shoes.
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September 19, 2012, 02:46:02 PM
 #144

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Why are there so many fucking shady ass people involved in Bitcoin?  Makes me really re-consider what I should do with my BFL ASIC Single pre-order I made months ago.  I was really hoping BFL was a clean company struggling with the demands of high demand, but it seems its a company shrouded in mystery, ran by scammers who deal with illegal gambling software and Ponzi schemes.

Inaba, I really feel for you.  What BFL needs is a COO that knows how to spin the media.  After reading your posts, you certainly don't present yourself as someone representing a company that does millions of dollars in revenue.

Right, because what you want is someone who will lie to you and tell you comforting tales so you aren't so scared, right? 

I guess I can do that if you want... but I'd rather be honest and upfront with everyone instead of spinning the story and being generally a dirt bag like most large corporations.  But hey, if you want lies and spin instead of truth, I can provide that, too.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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September 19, 2012, 03:09:08 PM
 #145

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Why are there so many fucking shady ass people involved in Bitcoin?  Makes me really re-consider what I should do with my BFL ASIC Single pre-order I made months ago.  I was really hoping BFL was a clean company struggling with the demands of high demand, but it seems its a company shrouded in mystery, ran by scammers who deal with illegal gambling software and Ponzi schemes.

Inaba, I really feel for you.  What BFL needs is a COO that knows how to spin the media.  After reading your posts, you certainly don't present yourself as someone representing a company that does millions of dollars in revenue.

Right, because what you want is someone who will lie to you and tell you comforting tales so you aren't so scared, right?  

I guess I can do that if you want... but I'd rather be honest and upfront with everyone instead of spinning the story and being generally a dirt bag like most large corporations.  But hey, if you want lies and spin instead of truth, I can provide that, too.


Then why didn't you come forward with all this information before?  It took a long time and alot of snopping from the forum members for it to come out.  Thats not exactly being upfront.

So, as a consumer, and a customer of BFL I would like to know:
1. Are you really a C Corporation?
2. If you are a C Corp, which state do you file in?
3. Are you annual reports public, like most C Corps?

With these questions, I can find out pretty much all I need to know as a consumer about your company using the public resources.  This is what good and valid companies do.

EDIT: Also, feel free to go back and view my past posts.  I have usually defended BFL on all fronts, but in light of all this new information coming out, I have really re-thought my opinions.  When you were made COO of BFL, you should represent the company.  Going on tyraids is not befitting of a million dollar revenue generating company.  Not only does it look bad on you, it looks horrible on the company for choosing you as their COO. 

Your actions really reaks of Jim Mackeys actions when he was running Whole Foods:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_Foods_Market#SEC_investigation
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September 19, 2012, 03:19:49 PM
 #146

Inaba,

I don't presume to speak for the masses, but I have suspicion that many may share my views. It is vitally important for a consumer to have confidence in a company when investing, what is usually scarce, resource (E.G their money) into that company. I have thousands of dollars sitting in your accounts on the promise of delivery of ASIC equipment starting in October.

It really does not matter if the company is in a loft, if the components are manufactured or assembled by you or if the owner has had issues in the past. The only thing that truly matters is that you deliver on your promises. I have several shelves filled with BFL singles and they perform as  advertised, and that is all I really ask for as a consumer. For me, going forward, your company will be judged solely on how well it keeps it promises and how well it communicates and keeps its investors informed.

I see myself as an investor in your company and I am gambling on that you will deliver. I am betting thousands of dollars that you will. If you deliver, I don't care about the past and it is not for me to judge.

The only suggestion I can make is to continue to communicate with your investors and keep them apprised of when the gear will actually ship and any delays that you anticipate. I think given some of the concerns, either real or imagined, it is vitally important that you manage our expectations as you work towards and subsequently get ASIC product out the door.

Thanks

David

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reeses
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September 19, 2012, 03:23:45 PM
 #147

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Why are there so many fucking shady ass people involved in Bitcoin?  Makes me really re-consider what I should do with my BFL ASIC Single pre-order I made months ago.  I was really hoping BFL was a clean company struggling with the demands of high demand, but it seems its a company shrouded in mystery, ran by scammers who deal with illegal gambling software and Ponzi schemes.

Inaba, I really feel for you.  What BFL needs is a COO that knows how to spin the media.  After reading your posts, you certainly don't present yourself as someone representing a company that does millions of dollars in revenue.

Right, because what you want is someone who will lie to you and tell you comforting tales so you aren't so scared, right? 

I guess I can do that if you want... but I'd rather be honest and upfront with everyone instead of spinning the story and being generally a dirt bag like most large corporations.  But hey, if you want lies and spin instead of truth, I can provide that, too.


What do you mean, "too"?  It's what you've been doing before day one at BFL.

Bitcoinland is waking up to the fact that we're not in Eden anymore.  Why don't you just open up and disclose any encumbrances that are material (pertaining to a civil suit in the US jurisdiction of your choosing) so people don't have to dig things up on their own?

Honesty is not just telling the truth when you are presented with irrefutable evidence.
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September 19, 2012, 03:25:08 PM
 #148

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Why are there so many fucking shady ass people involved in Bitcoin?  Makes me really re-consider what I should do with my BFL ASIC Single pre-order I made months ago.  I was really hoping BFL was a clean company struggling with the demands of high demand, but it seems its a company shrouded in mystery, ran by scammers who deal with illegal gambling software and Ponzi schemes.

Inaba, I really feel for you.  What BFL needs is a COO that knows how to spin the media.  After reading your posts, you certainly don't present yourself as someone representing a company that does millions of dollars in revenue.

Right, because what you want is someone who will lie to you and tell you comforting tales so you aren't so scared, right? 

I guess I can do that if you want... but I'd rather be honest and upfront with everyone instead of spinning the story and being generally a dirt bag like most large corporations.  But hey, if you want lies and spin instead of truth, I can provide that, too.


What do you mean, "too"?  It's what you've been doing before day one at BFL.

Bitcoinland is waking up to the fact that we're not in Eden anymore.  Why don't you just open up and disclose any encumbrances that are material (pertaining to a civil suit in the US jurisdiction of your choosing) so people don't have to dig things up on their own?

Honesty is not just telling the truth when you are presented with irrefutable evidence.

Dog, is that you?

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September 19, 2012, 03:27:12 PM
 #149

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Why are there so many fucking shady ass people involved in Bitcoin?  Makes me really re-consider what I should do with my BFL ASIC Single pre-order I made months ago.  I was really hoping BFL was a clean company struggling with the demands of high demand, but it seems its a company shrouded in mystery, ran by scammers who deal with illegal gambling software and Ponzi schemes.

Inaba, I really feel for you.  What BFL needs is a COO that knows how to spin the media.  After reading your posts, you certainly don't present yourself as someone representing a company that does millions of dollars in revenue.

Right, because what you want is someone who will lie to you and tell you comforting tales so you aren't so scared, right? 

I guess I can do that if you want... but I'd rather be honest and upfront with everyone instead of spinning the story and being generally a dirt bag like most large corporations.  But hey, if you want lies and spin instead of truth, I can provide that, too.


What do you mean, "too"?  It's what you've been doing before day one at BFL.

Bitcoinland is waking up to the fact that we're not in Eden anymore.  Why don't you just open up and disclose any encumbrances that are material (pertaining to a civil suit in the US jurisdiction of your choosing) so people don't have to dig things up on their own?

Honesty is not just telling the truth when you are presented with irrefutable evidence.

Dog, is that you?


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I am not dog.
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September 19, 2012, 04:52:39 PM
 #150

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Then why didn't you come forward with all this information before?  It took a long time and alot of snopping from the forum members for it to come out.  Thats not exactly being upfront.

I will tell you why we didn't "come forward with all this information before" when you can tell me why you think it's relevant?  Please explain how the past affects the products you've already received (because you have received products right?  I mean, you're not here just complaining and you aren't even a customer, correct?) and how it will affect the products in the future.  If you can explain that, then I will explain why the information wasn't disclosed before.  Otherwise, it has absolutely no bearing on whether or not BFL has produced and shipped products in the past or in the future, does it?

Quote
So, as a consumer, and a customer of BFL I would like to know:
1. Are you really a C Corporation?
2. If you are a C Corp, which state do you file in?
3. Are you annual reports public, like most C Corps?

With these questions, I can find out pretty much all I need to know as a consumer about your company using the public resources.  This is what good and valid companies do.

Our corporation, as has been said countless times before, is currently registered in Wyoming.  All the information is there, has been there, and will likely continue to be there.

Quote
EDIT: Also, feel free to go back and view my past posts.  I have usually defended BFL on all fronts, but in light of all this new information coming out, I have really re-thought my opinions.  When you were made COO of BFL, you should represent the company.  Going on tyraids is not befitting of a million dollar revenue generating company.  Not only does it look bad on you, it looks horrible on the company for choosing you as their COO.

So in light of this "new information coming out" how does it make your BFL Singles or Minirigs fail to perform?  I'm just curious.  I assume you mean tirade, not "tyraid" - but what tirade are you referring to?   I don't see any tirades, and I'm certainly not speaking as BFL at the moment.


@davidspitzer

You are exactly right.  It matters what we are doing now and in the future.  We have delivered in the past and we will deliver in the future.  I have been open and up front with delivery time and dates as I know them currently.  We are still on target for Late October, early November.  Given the production times, I would venture to say it will be closer to the latter on actual shipping dates for the units, since we want to ship them out en mass as opposed to ones and twos.  Since this is a new product, with all new components, we are having to change our production facilities to accommodate it.  Contrary to Franky's fabrications, we do not, have not and are not rebranding anyone elses boards and selling them.  It's all created by us, for us specifically.  It's interesting he makes those accusations but is completely unable to supply the original source of these supposedly rebranded boards.  I wonder why that is?

Anyway, we haven't run into any major show stoppers as of yet, so things are good. 


If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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September 19, 2012, 05:19:51 PM
 #151

So all those shipped FPGA parts are nothing but words?  I mean, there are certainly questions about BFL's progress with ASIC, but they are a real company that has real products and has been shipping them to consumers.

I agree. Some folks seem to be "hoping" that BFL does not deliver (perhaps it is fear of obsolescence of their FPGA and GPU investments). I think BFL will deliver (perhaps late, perhaps on time). I see no reason to think otherwise.

I think so too, too much baseless BFL hate ITT
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September 19, 2012, 05:29:28 PM
 #152

I will tell you why we didn't "come forward with all this information before" when you can tell me why you think it's relevant?  Please explain how the past affects the products you've already received (because you have received products right?  I mean, you're not here just complaining and you aren't even a customer, correct?) and how it will affect the products in the future.  If you can explain that, then I will explain why the information wasn't disclosed before.  Otherwise, it has absolutely no bearing on whether or not BFL has produced and shipped products in the past or in the future, does it?

1) It's relevant when taking pre-orders.  Had this information been known before Singles shipped, what do you think the investment would have been?  (I.e., that's fraud.)  Had this been known up to the point where BFL had a reasonable percentage of space parts on hand, the FTC would happily have gotten involved and shut down the company.  It has nothing to do with how it affects the products received afterward, because it's still nearly indistinguishable from a Ponzi. (I *love* that this is a valid argument on this forum.)  In fact, it's a "ponzi" run by a convicted felon, not just someone who was charged with passing bad checks.  Do you see how this looks?  Every single offering that is of more value than the previous just increases the correlation with "a classic ponzi," even if it's natural company growth.  BFL has created suspicion and doubt through its failures to meet its promises.  This information makes it seem as if it was part of a scheme rather than through incompetence or inexperience.

2) Is Inaba the "I only speak for myself so I can be an ass to customers" identity or do you actually speak for the company in this persona?  What does BFL_Josh have to say about this?

I like BFL's products once they get dialed in (even if they're ghetto right now), but its customer relations are really, really bad.  They've only gotten more adversarial since you joined the company.
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September 19, 2012, 05:47:22 PM
 #153

So are you going to post pictures of the products soon or do we have to wait until people receive them and post amateur photos here?

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September 19, 2012, 05:48:40 PM
 #154

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Then why didn't you come forward with all this information before?  It took a long time and alot of snopping from the forum members for it to come out.  Thats not exactly being upfront.

...If you can explain that, then I will explain why the information wasn't disclosed before....


For customer who paid a lot of bucks in front, there is NO need to explain anything!!!

Even potential customers, who are thinking in preordering a product from BFL, or better said investing in BFL, have a right to know such important things.

@Inaba.... Why you are writing here as Inaba and not as BFL_Josh?

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September 19, 2012, 05:50:14 PM
 #155

I will tell you why we didn't "come forward with all this information before" when you can tell me why you think it's relevant?  Please explain how the past affects the products you've already received (because you have received products right?  I mean, you're not here just complaining and you aren't even a customer, correct?) and how it will affect the products in the future.  If you can explain that, then I will explain why the information wasn't disclosed before.  Otherwise, it has absolutely no bearing on whether or not BFL has produced and shipped products in the past or in the future, does it?

1) It's relevant when taking pre-orders.  Had this information been known before Singles shipped, what do you think the investment would have been?  (I.e., that's fraud.)  Had this been known up to the point where BFL had a reasonable percentage of space parts on hand, the FTC would happily have gotten involved and shut down the company.  It has nothing to do with how it affects the products received afterward, because it's still nearly indistinguishable from a Ponzi. (I *love* that this is a valid argument on this forum.)  In fact, it's a "ponzi" run by a convicted felon, not just someone who was charged with passing bad checks.  Do you see how this looks?  Every single offering that is of more value than the previous just increases the correlation with "a classic ponzi," even if it's natural company growth.  BFL has created suspicion and doubt through its failures to meet its promises.  This information makes it seem as if it was part of a scheme rather than through incompetence or inexperience.

2) Is Inaba the "I only speak for myself so I can be an ass to customers" identity or do you actually speak for the company in this persona?  What does BFL_Josh have to say about this?

I like BFL's products once they get dialed in (even if they're ghetto right now), but its customer relations are really, really bad.  They've only gotten more adversarial since you joined the company.


I am not a lawyer yet, but I am awaiting the results of the CA bar after completing four long years of law school just recently. Below is my personal opinion and should not be construed as legal advice in any way:

There is no fraud if BFL delivers. Past crimes are not probative of proving the fact of the matter in a present case. Evidence of past moral turpitude crimes are admissible to show a propensity for dishonesty for impeachment purposes but cannot be used by itself to prove a present tort or crime.
The elements of fraud are:

1.   A false representation of a matter of fact—whether by words or by conduct
2.   by false or misleading assertions,
3.   or by concealment of what should have been disclosed—
4.   that deceives and is intended to deceive another so that the individual will act upon it to her or his legal injury

The important element is the last one. In essence there needs to be harm. If BFL delivers the products then there can be no fraud, even if the owner purports himself to be the King of Great Britain. I do not think throwing out terms like fraud is constructive or fair until BFL has had an opportunity to deliver.  If they fail to deliver or the product is materially non-conforming, and BFL knew or had reason to know that such was the case when they sought to sell their product, then and only then would your accusation be Justiciable in a court of law.

Is it worrisome that the owner of BFL has a sorted past? For myself it does add a bit of concern over my investment, but I will reserve judgment until such time as it is clear they have delivered or defaulted in some way.

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P_Shep
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September 19, 2012, 05:51:01 PM
 #156

As an aside, My BFL units have now paid themselfs off.

From now on, everything they make (less electric bill) is profit Cheesy
freeAgent
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September 19, 2012, 05:57:55 PM
 #157

Anyway, we haven't run into any major show stoppers as of yet, so things are good. 

That's good to hear.  Keep us updated Smiley
greyhawk
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September 19, 2012, 05:58:38 PM
 #158

So are you going to post pictures of the products soon or do we have to wait until people receive them and post amateur photos here?

CubedRoot
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September 19, 2012, 05:59:42 PM
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I will tell you why we didn't "come forward with all this information before" when you can tell me why you think it's relevant?  Please explain how the past affects the products you've already received (because you have received products right?  I mean, you're not here just complaining and you aren't even a customer, correct?) and how it will affect the products in the future.  If you can explain that, then I will explain why the information wasn't disclosed before.  Otherwise, it has absolutely no bearing on whether or not BFL has produced and shipped products in the past or in the future, does it?

1) It's relevant when taking pre-orders.  Had this information been known before Singles shipped, what do you think the investment would have been?  (I.e., that's fraud.)  Had this been known up to the point where BFL had a reasonable percentage of space parts on hand, the FTC would happily have gotten involved and shut down the company.  It has nothing to do with how it affects the products received afterward, because it's still nearly indistinguishable from a Ponzi. (I *love* that this is a valid argument on this forum.)  In fact, it's a "ponzi" run by a convicted felon, not just someone who was charged with passing bad checks.  Do you see how this looks?  Every single offering that is of more value than the previous just increases the correlation with "a classic ponzi," even if it's natural company growth.  BFL has created suspicion and doubt through its failures to meet its promises.  This information makes it seem as if it was part of a scheme rather than through incompetence or inexperience.

2) Is Inaba the "I only speak for myself so I can be an ass to customers" identity or do you actually speak for the company in this persona?  What does BFL_Josh have to say about this?

I like BFL's products once they get dialed in (even if they're ghetto right now), but its customer relations are really, really bad.  They've only gotten more adversarial since you joined the company.

THIS  ^^ A thousand times this ^^

Had I known the shady dealings before sending you hundreds of my BTC (thousands of dollars) I would NOT have pre-ordered with BFL.  I guess as a customer, I just need to know SOMETHING is being done at the factory level.  The website sure as hell gives no information, in fact it makes me even more suspicious when I browse over it.  The only communication we as a Bitcoin community get from BFL is via smart mouthed replies from Inaba or BFL_Josh.  You are doing yourself and BFL a huge disservice by being an ass to everyone...even your competitors, and non-customers ("haters").  When you become a COO of a company, you are a figurehead for said company.  EVERYTHING you do, both in your public "business" life and your personal life is a direct reflection of the company.  So, when you login as "Inaba" and post such brash messages, we the public still see's this as "The guy thats running BFL", regardless if your nick says Inaba or BFL_Josh.  Its in yours and BFL's best interests to speak as if you are ALWAYS representing the company.

I truly think BFL wants to do business the right way, Honestly I do.  They have delivered good products in the past, but the suffer from very poor management and leadership which a new company struggling with such huge demand needs so desperately to keep on track.  When you joined BFL, I was hoping you might help steer things differently, but instead you join the chorus of underbellies and continue to use harsh tones with everyone on the forums.  I am a little disappointed, and I hoped that BFL would get things right, and deliver when they first said (October), but that has now slipped, just like in the first release.  Things are not looking good, and that sucks because I want to see BFL succeed.
Inaba
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September 19, 2012, 06:19:10 PM
 #160

Quote
1) It's relevant when taking pre-orders.  Had this information been known before Singles shipped, what do you think the investment would have been?  (I.e., that's fraud.)  Had this been known up to the point where BFL had a reasonable percentage of space parts on hand, the FTC would happily have gotten involved and shut down the company.  It has nothing to do with how it affects the products received afterward, because it's still nearly indistinguishable from a Ponzi. (I *love* that this is a valid argument on this forum.)  In fact, it's a "ponzi" run by a convicted felon, not just someone who was charged with passing bad checks.  Do you see how this looks?  Every single offering that is of more value than the previous just increases the correlation with "a classic ponzi," even if it's natural company growth.  BFL has created suspicion and doubt through its failures to meet its promises.  This information makes it seem as if it was part of a scheme rather than through incompetence or inexperience.

What's fraud?  That we shipped orders for FPGAs late or that we have taken preorders for the ASICs?  In either case, I don't see where there is any fraud or what the FTC has to do with it, please explain.

I'm thinking you might not know what a Ponzi is, so I would kindly suggest that you read up on what a Ponzi is.  I'm not sure it's even possible to have a Ponzi scheme when products are delivered... it may be possible, but it seems unlikely.  In either case, even if it were possible to have a Ponzi of Products, can you describe how BFL would fit into such a convoluted picture?  

Quote
2) Is Inaba the "I only speak for myself so I can be an ass to customers" identity or do you actually speak for the company in this persona?  What does BFL_Josh have to say about this?

What customers have I been an ass to?  I'm sorry if you feel I've been an ass to you, but you have been nothing but hostile to me from day one.  Are you even a customer? If not, why do you have an expectation of civility when you spew out nothing but hate and negativity?  For that matter, even if you are a customer, why do you have that expectation?  The customer is not always right.  I very sincerely apologize to those that I offend in my comments, but the bottom line is I don't suffer idiots lightly.  If you are being an idiot and I call you out on it you need to step back and assess why you just got verbally thrashed.  If you approach me with civility and facts, instead of incivility and fabrications, you will get the same courtesy in return.  If you are going to attack the legitimacy of BFL, please have your facts straight and have a logical, cogent argument to make.  

As for Inaba vs BFL_Josh, someone asked me (Inaba) for an explanation and I provided it last night to quell any fears that we are trying to hide something that materially affects BFL.  If you want a formal statement from BFL_Josh, that can be provided, but you won't get the same amount of discourse (positive or negative) there.  I've always known this would become a minor flashpoint for the haters at some point and I want to make sure that those irrational individuals like Reeses et al comments are addressed and  handled as quickly and as completely as possible, since they like to stir up trouble (I'm not singling you out solely Reeses, you have lots of company) just for the sake of being asses.  

CubedRoot: Let me know what your order number(s) are and I will get you a full refund today, and you won't have to worry anymore.  In the future, if you want me to be more "corporate like," that too can be arranged.  In fact, you can have it now:  There's an "ignore" button on the side.  That is exactly what you'll get if you want corporate as opposed to community.  Please provide an example of a COO that posts on a community forum regularly and interacts with the people around them; one that is actually in touch with the product they are selling.  As a side note, what "brash messages" are you referring to, exactly?  First it was tirades now it's "brash messages" but you have yet to point out which ones you consider as such.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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