GoldMoney [FB post]: James Turk in conversation with Félix Moreno de la Cova

[cypherdoc]

goldbugs demand tangibility, what they actually mean is :
I want to be able to be the only one who can touch it.
when someone translates them that their word "tangibility" means "absolute ownership"
they should be able to get on the right track to understanding advantages of bitcoin

and about backing,
it is backed by me not wanting to sell it (cheap)

to use Turk's language, the gold bugs do not want any "counterparty risk".  Bitcoin fulfills that definition completely.

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[marcus_of_augustus]

Felix also mentioned Hayek's theory of Emerging Order which fits Bitcoin to a tee:

Hayek’s key insights included a recognition that, because knowledge is dispersed and depends on time, place, and context, no central authority could acquire all the knowledge required to plan an economy. He also sought to better understand a phenomenon first identified by philosophers of the Scottish Enlightenment – that of spontaneous orders. Many orders such as languages, Hayek noted, are not constructed by a central authority. Instead, millions of individuals acting on their own create an ordered way of communication with one another.

The huge positive from this interview, and many others now advocating competition in a free market for currencies is that realisation is growing, quite quickly now, that competition is possible. We do not have to live inside this draconian monopolised monetary control matrix. There are other ways. Gold and bitcoin and Hayekians can live peacefully together.

http://monetaryfreedom.org/

https://mises.org/daily/3204

The interesting fact is that what I have called the monopoly of government of issuing money has not only deprived us of good money but has also deprived us of the only process by which we can find out what would be good money. We do not even quite know what exact qualities we want because in the two thousand years in which we have used coins and other money, we have never been allowed to experiment with it, we have never been given a chance to find out what the best kind of money would be.

[bracek]

Lots of discussion going on in the Youtube comments. I posted a hell of a lot, need sleep now. Someone take over for me. In case you're wondering, I have Sabbetus as my nickname over there.

I see u put a lot of energy into discussion with the lower class
why bother ?

You cant get logically into their emotional way of "thinking".
It's more like reacting, and not thinking.
Math, logic, pure healthy reason, they simply don't work,
most people lead their lives based on some set of beliefs,
they build worldviews on emotional reactions, and they got those from people around them

they are their worldview, they become one with their stance on issues of debate,
and just like with addiction, old ego must die for them to be able
to accept new ideas

I am trying to set myself free from arguing with "them" for quite some time...
best way to get them in, imo, is through low instincts,
to entice their greed, envy, to show that you benefited from it and to create doubt in them by being better off,
then ego is able to change because it is endangered, it sees that you could survive easier with it, than he without it.

do like you would do with a chimp,
he won't listen, but when he sees how u reached a banana, he will do the exact thing you did.
just say, i bought bitcoin, then sold it and earned myself a bycicle, that should do the work,
not that bitcoin solved double spend problem or whatever...

long replies also are a mistake,
u become the one who explains things, and it is a weak position, not a position of power.

[cypherdoc]

Lots of discussion going on in the Youtube comments. I posted a hell of a lot, need sleep now. Someone take over for me. In case you're wondering, I have Sabbetus as my nickname over there.

ok, i'm battling over there with ya as "none6524".

[AbsoluteZero]

Is there a quick counter-argument for the "bitcoins are not tangible"?

It should be added to the Bitcoin - Myths, in honor of James Turk.

I liked the interview, James Turk seems reasonable enough. If the "tangible" is the only issue for him to embrace the idea, man, that's easy.

Bitcoins are not tangible.

Also non tangible but valuable:

Dollars at the bank
Domain names
Patents
Trademarks
Copyrights
Movies
Songs
Digital books
Bonds
Calls
Puts
Contracts
Etc. etc.

[Severian]

RUNTOBITCOIN.COM!!!

LMAO! Get 'em, Trace!

Domain Name: RUNTOBITCOIN.COM
      Created on: 20-Sep-12
      Expires on: 20-Sep-13
      Last Updated on: 20-Sep-12

   Administrative Contact:
      Mayer, Tracy  domains@premierarkllc.com

[Trader Steve]

The mind, like a parachute, has to be open to work. Most people are just followers anyway and very few are willing to actually do the hard intellectual labor of thinking. Let alone the harder intellectual work of changing how others think!

I suspect the run to bitcoin (pardon the pun) will start when the upper-tier deleveraging becomes more apparent to the mainstream investor. Rumors of QE3 and now the actual event makes everything look rosy at the moment but the buzz won't last.

RUNTOBITCOIN.COM!!!

LOL!

[MyBitcoinMint]

sunnankar:  get yourself on Capital Account.  she's cute too. 

Perhaps you could nudge them?

I have an interview lined up to be released around the first week in October with a finance/economics blog that does about 10m visitors per year and the author interviewing me recently gave a speech at the NY Fed. Hope I can handle the heat! Going to be fun exposure for Bitcoin either way.

Oooooh, an interview with the Economic Policy Journal?! Very exciting!!! Way to start blowing up the Austrian map, Trace!

[Trader Steve]

goldbugs demand tangibility, what they actually mean is :
I want to be able to be the only one who can touch it.
when someone translates them that their word "tangibility" means "absolute ownership"
they should be able to get on the right track to understanding advantages of bitcoin

and about backing,
it is backed by me not wanting to sell it (cheap)

to use Turk's language, the gold bugs do not want any "counterparty risk".  Bitcoin fulfills that definition completely.

Yes, and Mr. Turk overlooks that obvious fact that when you hold a GoldMoney account you are also subject to "counterparty risk". You risk the potential inability of Mr. Turk to redeem your digits digital warehouse receipts for physical gold. All his customers' gold sits there as a fat, juicy target for existing power structures. Just ask Mr. Douglas Jackson how that business model worked out for him.

[FreeMoney]

goldbugs demand tangibility, what they actually mean is :
I want to be able to be the only one who can touch it.
when someone translates them that their word "tangibility" means "absolute ownership"
they should be able to get on the right track to understanding advantages of bitcoin

and about backing,
it is backed by me not wanting to sell it (cheap)

to use Turk's language, the gold bugs do not want any "counterparty risk".  Bitcoin fulfills that definition completely.

Yes, and Mr. Turk overlooks that obvious fact that when you hold a GoldMoney account you are also subject to "counterparty risk". You risk the potential inability of Mr. Turk to redeem your digits warehouse receipts for physical gold. All his gold sits there as a fat, juicy target for existing power structures. Just ask Mr. Douglas Jackson how that turned out for him.

Super sketchy to ask people to trust you as counterparty while denying that risk exists. I don't trust him (Turk) one tiny bit.

[Severian]

The interesting fact is that what I have called the monopoly of government of issuing money has not only deprived us of good money but has also deprived us of the only process by which we can find out what would be good money. We do not even quite know what exact qualities we want because in the two thousand years in which we have used coins and other money, we have never been allowed to experiment with it, we have never been given a chance to find out what the best kind of money would be.

From the same lecture, Hayek predicts where the best kind of money ideas will come from:

The great obstacle is that it involves such great changes in the whole financial structure that, and I am saying this from the experience of many discussions, no senior banker, who understands only the present banking system, can really conceive how such a new system would work, and he would not dare to risk and experiment with it. I think we will have to count on a few younger and more flexible brains to begin and show that such a thing can he done.

The current grand old minds need to back up the younger and more flexible brains we have today.

[cypherdoc]

The current grand old minds need to back up the younger and more flexible brains we have today.

unfortunately the young minds are gonna have to step up and take what's rightfully theirs.

[cypherdoc]

RUNTOBITCOIN.COM!!!

LMAO! Get 'em, Trace!

Domain Name: RUNTOBITCOIN.COM
      Created on: 20-Sep-12
      Expires on: 20-Sep-13
      Last Updated on: 20-Sep-12

   Administrative Contact:
      Mayer, Tracy  domains@premierarkllc.com

you know, with all my kidding about that, i knew i should've gone out and grabbed that domain! 

[sunnankar]

you know, with all my kidding about that, i knew i should've gone out and grabbed that domain! 

Had thought about it before but not quite so sure you would be as professionally courteous as he is with Matonis (themonetaryfuture.com).

[Severian]

Had thought about it before

I kind of figured you'd snag it so I'm glad I left it.

[Severian]

unfortunately the young minds are gonna have to step up and take what's rightfully theirs.

They're already doing it. I'll keep lending a hand.

[grondilu]

A USB key is something tangible, right?  I can put my wallet in it, can't I?  If I also erase the copy of my wallet on my PC, then this USB key becomes the only thing in the whole universe that can allow me to get my bitcoins back, right?

So to me, bitcoins ARE tangible.

And what is so magic about holding something in your hands, anyway?

[marcus_of_augustus]

A USB key is something tangible, right?  I can put my wallet in it, can't I?  If I also erase the copy of my wallet on my PC, then this USB key becomes the only thing in the whole universe that can allow me to get my bitcoins back, right?

So to me, bitcoins ARE tangible.

And what is so magic about holding something in your hands, anyway?

I suppose a "brain wallet" is intangible. So bitcoin value can be held either as tangible or intangible ... messes with people's heads like this.

If it is not able to be physically touched does it really exist?

[grondilu]

If it is not able to be physically touched does it really exist?

I don't think Turk denied the very existence of bitcoins.  He just doesn't like the idea of them not being physical.   Still it's funny debate.  Can be annoying or interesting, depending on whether or not you're in the mood for metaphysical stuff.

Bitcoins are amounts whose transfer requires the knowledge of private keys.   Private keys are numbers.  Knowledge of numbers is information.

So, is information something tangible?

On one hand, yes it is.  Because it always requires a medium for storage.  And that medium must be physical.   Even if it's in your head, it's somewhere in your brain, encoded with some of your neurons.

On the other hand, no it's not.  Information can travel through space vacuum via EM waves, a.k.a. light.  And light is a non-material substance:   you just can't hold it in any way.  It's the best example of non-tangible substance we can imagine.

The real question is:  should we care if information is tangible?  Does it matter if bitcoins can not be hold in hands?  I don't think so.

[allthingsluxury]

James is a great man in his own right. He is a true gold and silver vigilante. He may be a little misguided when it comes to the topic of bitcoins. Max Keiser is the bitcoin champion.