Canadian Government Decides -- Bitcoin is Hands Off -- No Real Regulation

[Hollingsworth]

Maybe its time to move to the great white north, where the beers are cold, the girls are warm, and the bitcoin is welcome.

[rexxarofmoknathal]

Heh, guess the perks of living here go beyond health care for once. This is some nice news 

[ThEmporium]

http://motherboard.vice.com/en_ca/read/the-canadian-senate-announced-its-bitcoin-report-in-a-totally-appropriate-way

Thanks Canada.

That's great news. Hope this would happen in various parts of countries too, the way this digital coin innovated is entirely in legitimate way. Ironically, this legitimate ideas never get digested by many governmental authorities, as everyone knows that all government sectors has few corrupt people everywhere in this world.

[aigeezer]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but here are a few factoids about Canada:

1. The Canadian Senate is not an elected body. Members are appointed by the actual government. Appointments are historically patronage gigs for old party loyalists. The present prime minister (the actual head of government) campaigned on replacing the senate with an elected body but, once in office, continued the practice of appointing hacks to the senate instead. One such appointment is in full scandal mode right now: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/topic/Tag/Mike%20Duffy%20trial

2. Senate reports are sometimes used as trial balloons by a government. If well received, the actual government decision-makers (in the House of Commons) might make it their policy. Otherwise it can be ignored as "just a Senate report", which is the norm.

3. Canadian winters are as varied as the country, which is larger than the US (sorry about that). I have even lived in a Canadian area, admittedly a small one, with a true Mediterranean climate - people grow figs outdoors, protected only by bird netting. I'm not saying where in the country it is though - just in case.       

4. Canada has no "states". The Canadian equivalents are provinces and territories. You are right (upthread) that these governments may or may not come up with their own BTC policies - I hope nothing like Lawsky's caper in New York, but - perhaps ominously - the Senate committee made a field trip to New York as part of their "investigation", according to Canadian media. I imagine it was probably just an excuse for shopping and nightlife, but you never know.

tl/dr The Canadian Senate is not the voice of the Canadian Government. Canadian government policy re BTC is not yet announced. This might hint at good news to come or it might not. Watch and wait.

[Hippie Tech]

When they should decide to cut off your power and/or internet, your hard earned money will most definitely be HANDS OFF.

[Kprawn]

Well, whatever they are doing... it's looking real good for Bitcoin. I hope the New York Bitcoiners will take note and relocate to these Bitcoin-friendly environments.

Thank you Andreas for opening the door for Bitcoin in Canada. Your inputs would most definately have made a difference in their decision towards this matter. They looked like the coolest bunch of people in government compared to the "stiff necks" we have to deal with in our country. 

Let's hope the final dicision on this matter will also be in Bitcoins favor. 

[afriezalie]

Wow this is a good news . They allowed bitcoin and admit bitcoin, this is a good news to bitcoin network. I hope with this news, bitcoin network will spread quickly over Canadian 
Right now there are no many countries accept bitcoin, but Canada allowed it. This is so cool , i hope my country will do this too

[Kakmakr]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but here are a few factoids about Canada:

1. The Canadian Senate is not an elected body. Members are appointed by the actual government. Appointments are historically patronage gigs for old party loyalists. The present prime minister (the actual head of government) campaigned on replacing the senate with an elected body but, once in office, continued the practice of appointing hacks to the senate instead. One such appointment is in full scandal mode right now: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/topic/Tag/Mike%20Duffy%20trial

2. Senate reports are sometimes used as trial balloons by a government. If well received, the actual government decision-makers (in the House of Commons) might make it their policy. Otherwise it can be ignored as "just a Senate report", which is the norm.

3. Canadian winters are as varied as the country, which is larger than the US (sorry about that). I have even lived in a Canadian area, admittedly a small one, with a true Mediterranean climate - people grow figs outdoors, protected only by bird netting. I'm not saying where in the country it is though - just in case.       

4. Canada has no "states". The Canadian equivalents are provinces and territories. You are right (upthread) that these governments may or may not come up with their own BTC policies - I hope nothing like Lawsky's caper in New York, but - perhaps ominously - the Senate committee made a field trip to New York as part of their "investigation", according to Canadian media. I imagine it was probably just an excuse for shopping and nightlife, but you never know.

tl/dr The Canadian Senate is not the voice of the Canadian Government. Canadian government policy re BTC is not yet announced. This might hint at good news to come or it might not. Watch and wait.

Looks like you have some inside knowledge to the inner workings of the Canadian Government. Thanks for the information. Just a question or two: What percentage of these reports end up as policy?
Can the merchants and vendors accept Bitcoin as a payment method, before policy have been formulated?
I thought about going there, but I am from a country with warmer average temperatures and it's damn cold up there. 

[Herbert2020]

this is a great news for bitcoin in my opinion. a country's government declaring bitcoin is going to be huge. it is time to move to Canada i wonder how it will affect the price of bitcoin in the future.

[okae]

if i was in love with Canada, now im 150% in love with it.

thats a pretty good news and this is the big step needed, the first step, now is just a question of time that others do the same, is unavoidable.

ty for the link man, i love to start the day with great news like this one

[unamis76]

Well... That was a master kick, sort to say... It was a masterpiece publishing it on the blockchain, good call!

And they don't want to regulate anything apparently... Perfect. Too perfect to be true

[aigeezer]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but here are a few factoids about Canada:

1. The Canadian Senate is not an elected body. Members are appointed by the actual government. Appointments are historically patronage gigs for old party loyalists. The present prime minister (the actual head of government) campaigned on replacing the senate with an elected body but, once in office, continued the practice of appointing hacks to the senate instead. One such appointment is in full scandal mode right now: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/topic/Tag/Mike%20Duffy%20trial

2. Senate reports are sometimes used as trial balloons by a government. If well received, the actual government decision-makers (in the House of Commons) might make it their policy. Otherwise it can be ignored as "just a Senate report", which is the norm.

3. Canadian winters are as varied as the country, which is larger than the US (sorry about that). I have even lived in a Canadian area, admittedly a small one, with a true Mediterranean climate - people grow figs outdoors, protected only by bird netting. I'm not saying where in the country it is though - just in case.       

4. Canada has no "states". The Canadian equivalents are provinces and territories. You are right (upthread) that these governments may or may not come up with their own BTC policies - I hope nothing like Lawsky's caper in New York, but - perhaps ominously - the Senate committee made a field trip to New York as part of their "investigation", according to Canadian media. I imagine it was probably just an excuse for shopping and nightlife, but you never know.

tl/dr The Canadian Senate is not the voice of the Canadian Government. Canadian government policy re BTC is not yet announced. This might hint at good news to come or it might not. Watch and wait.

Looks like you have some inside knowledge to the inner workings of the Canadian Government. Thanks for the information. Just a question or two: What percentage of these reports end up as policy?
Can the merchants and vendors accept Bitcoin as a payment method, before policy have been formulated?
I thought about going there, but I am from a country with warmer average temperatures and it's damn cold up there. 

Thanks. I have lived in Canada for a long time, but I am not a political junkie. I usually try to ignore all politicians and hope they will treat me with, at best, benign neglect. That said, I thought it would be easy to Google an answer to your first question, "What percentage of these reports end up as policy?" - not so, it turns out. Anecdotally, I'd say almost nothing that originates in the Senate becomes law unless it was planted by the party in power - for example, a controversial idea that could be discussed without the government appearing to own it until the government could tell which way the wind was blowing. I'm not saying this is a bad thing - it is what it is. Anyway, anecdotal answers are not really much use, so here is something a bit more substantial:

1. A long, dreary government-published spin piece which attempts to justify the Senate nevertheless starts with this:

"Among the governing institutions of Canada, the Canadian Senate is virtually unequalled in its ability to attract criticism and derision. The Upper Chamber has been described as unrepresentative of the Canadian people, a "lobby" for the nation's business élites, responsible to no one, and undemocratic."

 - and concludes with this:

"Public opinion polls have shown a steady increase in the number of Canadians who feel that the Upper Chamber should be abolished.  In a poll released on 22 July 1993, Gallup Canada reported that 54% of Canadians favoured abolition, the highest percentage ever recorded by the organization. The results of the poll, according to Gallup, reflected "the public attitude towards an institution that is perceived by many to have outlived its usefulness." In light of the record low levels of esteem accorded the Senate in recent public opinion polls, committees of the Upper House face enormous challenges if they wish to be effective...."

http://publications.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/BP/bp361-e.htm#ASSESSING

2. The gory details on how federal law is made in Canada (or rather the public face of the process): http://library.queensu.ca/gov/bills_federal

Your second question, "Can the merchants and vendors accept Bitcoin as a payment method, before policy have been formulated?" is interesting. I am no lawyer, but my sense is that governments anywhere can and do make things retroactively illegal from time to time, so you just never know what they might come up with on any particular day (Cyprus bail-in, for example). That said, I routinely buy stuff from NewEgg and TigerDirect's Canadian sites and pay with BTC (yay!). In general there is no sense that BTC is somehow forbidden in Canada. In the Vancouver area, there is a group actively getting merchants, one by one, to accept BTC payments. Things are more spotty in the rest of the country, I think, but definitely no sense of "forbidden".

Re your comment about average temperatures - my cheeky response is to ask if you ever heard about the statistician who drowned in a river that had an average depth of one foot? There are places to live in Canada that have very pleasant weather year-round (see my fig tree comment in my first post).

My main theme though - this Senate report is definitely not the breakthrough portrayed in the OP headline and assumed by many commenters. It may still be a good thing, but it would be a mistake to view it through an American lens as many people try to do - things work differently in Canada, and most of what you think you know about the country may be, um, wrong. 

[spazzdla]

Careful now, with Bill C51 the pigs can threaten you to give them all your wealth or imprison you for life just by claiming you are a terrorist..

[knight22]

And now they just published this info-graphic:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Committee/412/banc/rms/12jun15/Infographic-e.htm

[aigeezer]

Careful now, with Bill C51 the pigs can threaten you to give them all your wealth or imprison you for life just by claiming you are a terrorist..

Yikes, after reading the Bill C51..... i would never set foot on Canada soil.

I suggest everyone to read up on the bill thats just passed last month.

You think America is bad,.... well then this bill would be a nightmare.

If you don't mind reading some detail, one of the opposition politicians spoke eloquently against the bill and suggested that it will be repealed if his party wins Canada's federal election this Fall: https://openparliament.ca/debates/2015/5/5/randall-garrison-2/only/
To bypass much of the detail, skip to his motion - the indented bit towards the end - to get the flavour of what he said.

Whether they win and whether they repeal the bill are two different matters, but at least he spoke up. Meanwhile, C51 is apparently the law of the land now.

[Envrin]

Yikes, after reading the Bill C51..... i would never set foot on Canada soil.

Yeah, that bill is beyond ridiculous.  Everyone has been complaining about the Patriot Act for over a decade, but Bill C51 puts that to shame.  I'm Canadian myself, and it's not fun to see your home country take that route.

On the flip side, Harper's government may have just ensured their loss in the next federal election thanks to that bill.  For example, Alberta was previously under a Conservative government for 44 years, but in the election that happened recently, NDP won by a landslide including majority govt.  There's a chance something similar may happen in the next federal election, and if a party like NDP gets control, you can expect Bill C51 to be thrown into the fiery pits of hell where it belongs.

[qiwoman2]

It's funny that I lived in Canada for seven years and just moved to Europe a few months ago so let's see if our European counterparts will follow suite. Unfortunately here in Cyprus a big bitcoin site scammed a lot of locals so it may take time here for it to gain any real traction but still this is a victory for Bitcoiners the world over seeing Canada is a pretty big country. This is clever on their part to be on trend for once and not follow the U.S around..

[rokkyroad]

Among the governing institutions of Canada, the Canadian Senate is virtually unequalled in its ability to attract criticism and derision

The Canadian Senators have been stealing the country blind for years. Canadian news has been reporting the thievery scandals for the past year or more. I'm sure the Senate views Btc as another avenue to befuddle expense accounts.

[Kprawn]

Wow, I have learned a lot about the Canadian politics in this thread. Why do they still have a Senate, if the reports they make have no impact or final say? They already have the House of Commons to make these decisions. {Or does the Senate do the leg work, and the House of commons the rubber stamp?}

To us out here, it looks like the Senate is the dog without teeth. They make a noise, but have no real power.

Andreas should have pitched his speech to the House of Commons for better results... but I guess it does not work that way. {I know very little about Canadian politics, and my government work totally different from theirs} 

[aigeezer]

Why do they still have a Senate, if the reports they make have no impact or final say?

Here is one answer to your question: http://www.thecanadaguide.com/the-senate

Teaser quote from the link:

"By far the most controversial institution in the Canadian system of government, the Canadian Senate has very few supporters. Modeled after the British House of Lords, it was originally supposed to allow representatives of Canada’s wealthy elite to veto legislation passed by politicians representing the common people — an idea which has not aged particularly well, as you might imagine. It’s thus hard to talk about the Senate in modern Canada without also mentioning either the word “reform” or “abolishment,” but neither has been seriously attempted to date."

Another way to ask why the senate still exists is the classic "cui bono" (who benefits?) question. It must serve somebody's needs, so who and what interests are served by it. That's a good way to approach anything one finds puzzling in human affairs, I think. With that in mind, why in the heck have they come out in favour of BTC? It is completely contrary to their usual style.

To make things even more puzzling, here is a pro-senate opinion piece published in a major Canadian newspaper which normally opposes the current government's policies. I think this defence of the senate is a very long stretch, but it has some truth to it. The theme is something like "some of the senators occasionally do good things because they have a sinecure and thus have less to fear than people who must answer to voters - because of this they occasionally dig deeply into some important issue or other - and therefore Canada needs its senate (cough)."

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2013/08/22/why_canada_needs_the_senate.html

Canada has two major political parties, which I think of as Tweedledum and Tweedledee. During the present Harperium, the senate has been loaded up with Harper's loyalists but before that it was notoriously filled with hacks from the party in power at any given time, resulting in a rough balance of (somewhat competing) vested interests. Canada's long-time third party, which I think of as Tweedlethree, has a chance to win in this year's Fall election, but you never know. Because it has not been in power before, it does not have its share of hacks in the senate. Will it succumb to temptation if its turn comes? Who knows?

Canada, like many countries, lurches from one election to the next in a "throw the rascals out" mood - replacing one set of rascals with the gang it threw out the time before. This time it's different (heh) in the sense that the party that may finally get its turn in power does not have the same baggage that the others do.

One more tidbit about Canadian politics - the present government has a large majority in parliament but only about 40% of the voters chose them. How do you get a majority with only 40% of the votes? Easy - you make sure the other 60% are split between or among various opposition parties. It's a trick long-exploited by all parties, and it pretty much ensures that any government "majority" is not the same thing as an actual majority - year after year, decade after decade.

Ain't it awful?         

tl/dr: Given the nature of the Canadian senate, why is it in favour of BTC? Cui bono? This is a really important question, imho.