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Question: Is Gavin "The Economic Crisis Is Over" Andresen correct, compromised, or crazy?
Correct.  The economy is fine. - 19 (20.9%)
Compromised.  The economy has since 2008 operated on extend and pretend, bailouts, and borrowed time. - 47 (51.6%)
Crazy.  Gavin has ascended to his level of incompetence and gone off the rails. - 25 (27.5%)
Total Voters: 84

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Author Topic: Is Gavin "The Financial Crisis Is Over" Andresen correct, compromised, or crazy?  (Read 6205 times)
Realpra
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January 09, 2016, 06:59:28 PM
 #81

"devastating climate change and peak oil?"

ManBearPig aside, do you even read the news?
Haha manbearbig? Really you don't think the drought in California is scary at all?

Quote
EG https://twitter.com/Melt_Dem/status/685202184720396288

Wow, I don't know how do deal with someone suffering with such dullest-spoon-in-the-dishwasher worthy delusions.
Temporary cheap oil prices do not mean that peak oil is debunked.
Peak means "most ever" that is where we are at. So yes we have a lot now.

Oil has been drilled for 100-200 years so the down slope will be about as long.

Like I said I don't know if the consequences will be horrific or the down slope gently enough that new technology just steps in.

Quote
But your Gavin-like Debby Denial economic illiteracy is duly noted.   Wink
Why do you believe in economic trouble if A you don't believe in resource limits and B you don't consider climate change a threat/real?

Why in your mind is the world in trouble exactly?

Quote
Enjoy your green shoots of fake growth and false recovery while you can.  Don't forget to get some silver while it's cheap.
Silver will not help. No one would accept it in an emergency. Maybe I will get some coins but I don't really see it as something serious.

If I'm just hedging against inflation stocks, Bitcoin and other stuff is better.

Cheap and sexy Bitcoin card/hardware wallet, buy here:
http://BlochsTech.com
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January 09, 2016, 07:03:53 PM
 #82

He talks about the financial crises in bitcoin! -> Translation: Bearmarket is over. He knows a huge pump is coming and this is exactly why he is afraid, the blocksize limit could be too small.

Not really, it sounds like he's talking about the economy in the classic sense, nothing to do with BTC.
Im a proposal for a blocksize increase and like his model of 8MB of increase per 2 year schelude, but if this guy thinks the financial crisis is over then he has no idea whatsoever when it comes to actual geopolitics/economics. Let's not forget this guy is a geek/nerd at heart and not a geopolitical analyst.

I had a laugh at reading myself right now. I have learned a lot for the past months, and im no longer pro-BIP 101. I can't believe I was drinking the koolaid of the big blocks back then. I understand clueless people dreaming with huge blocks now, that don't get we need LN and not a risky big block schelude that may or not may be sustainable in the long term. The more you know.

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January 09, 2016, 07:46:42 PM
 #83

I had a laugh at reading myself right now. I have learned a lot for the past months, and im no longer pro-BIP 101. I can't believe I was drinking the koolaid of the big blocks back then. I understand clueless people dreaming with huge blocks now, that don't get we need LN and not a risky big block schelude that may or not may be sustainable in the long term. The more you know.

Have you been using Luminosity? Cool, me too.  Smiley

I've decided that it's better to have 2.7tx per second globally while coders whip up a lightning network. It's really a sure thing, gonna be easier than using Bitcoin itself, people just don't have any patience. They drink the wrong koolaid and the next thing you know they're talking about competitive advantage, adoption rates, and stifled use cases... weirdos.

What people don't understand is that Bitcoin is ours... to have, to HODL. Poors can spend their dogecoins and fiat, I'll be sitting here getting rich through sweet, sweet, stagnation.

Feels good man.  Cool

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January 09, 2016, 07:59:32 PM
 #84

...

Ease up on iCEBREAKER. Boy ain't been right since that savage raping he got from IceDrill.

Hehe.  That's up into the same quality category that iCEBREAKER is famous for dishing out.  For general amusement purposes I can only hope that it spurs him to even greater heights.


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January 10, 2016, 03:56:31 AM
 #85

...

Ease up on iCEBREAKER. Boy ain't been right since that savage raping he got from IceDrill.

Hehe.  That's up into the same quality category that iCEBREAKER is famous for dishing out.  For general amusement purposes I can only hope that it spurs him to even greater heights.

Yes, let's all stop focusing on Gavin's idiotic 20MB --> 8GB block "Because economic crisis is over and NFLX will fiber to the screen" proposal and shoot the messenger using horrific shocking imagery.

The insight into the throwaway account's disturbing unconscious thought processes, which involved boys getting savagely raped, is most unwelcome.  More useful is the discovery tvbcof is of the type of weak mind easily impressed with such atrocity-trivializing rhetoric.

Were I to use such an uncouth, disgusting metaphor I would explain why it is apt, not simply steal it to get a cheap laugh from implied emasculation via sexual violence.  I wonder why the noob is so eager to portray me as utterly powerless and intimately violated...  Undecided

Actually, I don't.  That's for a therapist (and/or law enforcement) to deal with.

Not that the tu quoque ad hom deserves a response, but I traded most of my iD shares for hardware, which I mined with until selling at a most opportune time.

And I don't need to reach "even greater heights" to hand Realpra his ass on a platter.  Hold muh beer and watch this...   Wink


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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January 10, 2016, 04:45:28 AM
 #86

"devastating climate change and peak oil?"

ManBearPig aside, do you even read the news?
Haha manbearbig? Really you don't think the drought in California is scary at all?

Quote
EG https://twitter.com/Melt_Dem/status/685202184720396288

Wow, I don't know how do deal with someone suffering with such dullest-spoon-in-the-dishwasher worthy delusions.
Temporary cheap oil prices do not mean that peak oil is debunked.
Peak means "most ever" that is where we are at. So yes we have a lot now.

Oil has been drilled for 100-200 years so the down slope will be about as long.

Like I said I don't know if the consequences will be horrific or the down slope gently enough that new technology just steps in.

Quote
But your Gavin-like Debby Denial economic illiteracy is duly noted.   Wink
Why do you believe in economic trouble if A you don't believe in resource limits and B you don't consider climate change a threat/real?

Why in your mind is the world in trouble exactly?

Quote
Enjoy your green shoots of fake growth and false recovery while you can.  Don't forget to get some silver while it's cheap.
Silver will not help. No one would accept it in an emergency. Maybe I will get some coins but I don't really see it as something serious.

If I'm just hedging against inflation stocks, Bitcoin and other stuff is better.

Please endeavor to understand you are operating on a fairly low level of information.  Any somewhat successful high school policy debater could easily make the same corrective points which follow.  This isn't a fair fight anymore than a pro hockey team vs the peewee league.

1.  The California drought has nothing to do with ManBearPig.  Please learn the difference between weather and climate.  And google "Climategate" (hint: the models represent nothing more than the anti-scientific corruption of academia by government grants).

2.  Peak oil is bunk because of the substitution effect.  You are obviously too poorly read to know Simon won the bet with Ehrlich.

3.  The "economic trouble" stems not from limited resources but rather from central planning/banking and the malinvestment (resource mal-allocation) created thereby.  TBTF banks are emblematic of this, which is why the Genesis Text pointedly refers to their second round of bailouts, with a heavy implication of the entailed systemic risk the created by prevention/delay of creative destruction.  That was actually a good question, BTW.   Wink


It is a certainty silver will be useful in an emergency involving a lack of potable water and antiseptics.  You do at least know why that is, I hope.

In an emergency, silver may or may not be accepted as a medium of exchange.  It Depends®.  Please don't pretend you know the future, when your superficial knowledge/understanding of the past and present is at a Basic Bitch level of paltry.

As for inflation hedges, note gold, silver, and Bitcoin (ie hard liquid assets) all rise together on days when the fiat trash bleeds red.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
Realpra
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January 10, 2016, 04:35:46 PM
 #87

1.  The California drought has nothing to do with ManBearPig.  Please learn the difference between weather and climate.  And google "Climategate" (hint: the models represent nothing more than the anti-scientific corruption of academia by government grants).
I do believe that anti-science anti climate change movements have had much more funding from oil companies than anyone got from the government. Do you realize how small budgets scientist operate on and how underfunded they and NASA are?
If they were in it for the money and corruption they would get more in almost any other job.

That is exactly why oil companies can so easily lobby against common sense in the first place.

When every month is a new heat record it is not just weather.

Quote
2.  Peak oil is bunk because of the substitution effect.  You are obviously too poorly read to know Simon won the bet with Ehrlich.
Substitution only happens if there IS a substitute.

International shipping and planes are not going to run on batteries with our current level of technology nor the next decades level of technology.

Quote
3.  The "economic trouble" stems not from limited resources but rather from central planning/banking and the malinvestment (resource mal-allocation) created thereby.  TBTF banks are emblematic of this, which is why the Genesis Text pointedly refers to their second round of bailouts, with a heavy implication of the entailed systemic risk the created by prevention/delay of creative destruction.  That was actually a good question, BTW.   Wink
These problems affect mainly governments and fiat holders. If you are a sensible person dealing with sensible companies and you don't hold all your wealth at a bank as a pension or fiat you should be pretty okay.

Quote
It is a certainty silver will be useful in an emergency involving a lack of potable water and antiseptics.  You do at least know why that is, I hope.
The anti septic properties of silver hardly justifies hording all that much of it.
You can get the same effect with 2 drops of bleach or you know boiling stuff.

Quote
In an emergency, silver may or may not be accepted as a medium of exchange.  It Depends®.  Please don't pretend you know the future, when your superficial knowledge/understanding of the past and present is at a Basic Bitch level of paltry.
History shows that people value food, medicine and cigarettes in emergencies.

Quote
As for inflation hedges, note gold, silver, and Bitcoin (ie hard liquid assets) all rise together on days when the fiat trash bleeds red.
Except silver and gold don't rise, they just don't fall. You can never earn long time holding gold or silver.
Bitcoin and property can rise and are just as hard.

For gold or silver to shine you would need an emergency bad enough to knock out the internet+Bitcoin+fiat, but not so bad that only food mattered - a very theoretical scenario honestly.

Cheap and sexy Bitcoin card/hardware wallet, buy here:
http://BlochsTech.com
tvbcof
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January 10, 2016, 07:06:21 PM
 #88


Ease up on iCEBREAKER. Boy ain't been right since that savage raping he got from IceDrill.

Hehe.  That's up into the same quality category that iCEBREAKER is famous for dishing out.  For general amusement purposes I can only hope that it spurs him to even greater heights.
...
The insight into the throwaway account's disturbing unconscious thought processes, which involved boys getting savagely raped, is most unwelcome.  More useful is the discovery tvbcof is of the type of weak mind easily impressed with such atrocity-trivializing rhetoric.
...

TBH, the term 'boy' in this context did not, in my mind, map to 'juvenile' in a chronological sense.  It was a standard insult effective only because it was applied to an adult in fact.  To that extent the humor itself was indeed 'juvenile', and I readily admit that such humor is effective on me from time to time.

Remember that time when I posted a standard picture of a sheep being sheep-like and Cypherdoc's mind mysteriously and immediately conjured up a sexual connotation?  Weird, but then the world is full of weirdness.

And I don't need to reach "even greater heights" to hand Realpra his ass on a platter.  Hold muh beer and watch this...   Wink

I'll gladly hold your beer, and will pull an ice cold one from the cooler for you when you get done.

---

BTW, I actually never understood the 'icedrill' context.  I only basically figured that this 'newb' was making fun of your experience with HashFast, but never cared enough to try to understand what went on there.  All I know is that you had some involvement as did cypherdoc and that it seems that there was a desperate outcome between you two...monetarily speaking.

Relatetedy, the 'iceblow' insult never seemed at all funny to me.  Doesn't rhyme or seem to have any connotation other than a random assertion of oral sexual behavior as best I can tell.  Perhaps it has some connotation associated with the Hashfast goings-on, but that is a black-box to me...mostly because it isn't interesting enough for me to bother to open the top.

Quality wise, "Boy ain't been right since..." and "you're a fag" are on different ends of the 'juvenile' humor scale.  But that's a matter of taste.


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January 10, 2016, 07:26:58 PM
 #89

Can we get back on topic please? This thread is about Gavin's naïve impression that internet bandwidth worldwide is improving over time.

Watching iCE gag and sputter when given a dollop of his own medicine is not gratifying at all, and is a grave insult to the great number of bitcoiners who have suffered brutal and occasionally undeserved surprise secs.

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January 10, 2016, 07:59:51 PM
 #90


Can we get back on topic please? This thread is about Gavin's naïve impression that internet bandwidth worldwide is improving over time.
...

Sure.  We all know (or think we know) that 'disk' is not really a factor in Bitcoin scaling...as useful as it may be for propaganda purposes...but here's an observation which goes to the subject of 'Moore's law':

About the time that Satoshi was birthing Bitcoin, I was building a new workstation.  2008-ish IIRC which is within spitting distance of a decade.  I decided to finally 'do it right' and throw costs out the window.  What I ended up with was an i-family chipset, and for bulk storage a couple of 1.5TB drives (which I built a mirror an encryption on top of.)

Now, in 2016, after a bunch of years and a possible disk anomaly in my mirror, I decided to do a bit of work on the system.  I replaced the disks with another set of WD 'green' drives of a whopping 2TB capacity.  A full 25% increase.  OK, I might have decided to go with 6TB drives if I were feeling the same about spending money as I was back then.  That would make roughly a 400% increase.  Impressive, but vastly out of touch with the Moore's Law mythology.  I might have decided to upgrade the motherboard as well...if the technology had advanced significantly beyond the i-class base that I already owned.

I actually don't doubt that 'Moore's law' has held up better than my 'consumer grade' experience of the decade or so, but it is fairly clear that the friuits of this phenomenon are realized by a wholly different class of beneficiaries.  And I don't trust this class to serve my interests when it comes to protecting my assets against attack.

I've always said that market forces will not distribute technological advancements evenly, and the reasons for this are fairly obvious (to me at least.)  At this point it probably is the case that the likes of Google, Facebook, etc, could run Bitcoin as the global monetary system for everything and everyone.  If not now, they will be able to within a few years while it is completely unlikely that lesser class infrastructure providers will.  Bitcoin could 'evolve' to take advantage of this support base, but in doing so it will lose any advantage it may have over established fiat systems.

From a market perspective, once the bandwidth capacity reaches a point when 'hive-mind consciousness' can be streamed directly into the brains of a household, there is really no more demand which makes it unlikely that further increases will be forthcoming.  The actually bandwidth required for this, after sufficient optimization of the protocols, may not even be all that great.  Basically, as long as a sufficiently strong message to spend all of one's debt limit on new shit is downloaded there is not a lot more that needs to be done.  That is within the reach of what is possible for a lot of people living in appropriately structured 'human habitats' today.


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January 10, 2016, 08:24:44 PM
 #91


Can we get back on topic please? This thread is about Gavin's naïve impression that internet bandwidth worldwide is improving over time.
...

Sure.  We all know (or think we know) that 'disk' is not really a factor in Bitcoin scaling...

Undecided

Quote
I actually don't doubt that 'Moore's law' has held up better than my 'consumer grade' experience of the decade or so, but it is fairly clear that the friuits of this phenomenon are realized by a wholly different class of beneficiaries.  And I don't trust this class to serve my interests when it comes to protecting my assets against attack.

I've always said that market forces will not distribute technological advancements evenly, and the reasons for this are fairly obvious (to me at least.)  At this point it probably is the case that the likes of Google, Facebook, etc, could run Bitcoin as the global monetary system for everything and everyone.  If not now, they will be able to within a few years while it is completely unlikely that lesser class infrastructure providers will.  Bitcoin could 'evolve' to take advantage of this support base, but in doing so it will lose any advantage it may have over established fiat systems.

We're not in violent disagreement here. Although, I don't think miners moving to software with a 2-4MB max makes this inevitable or even likely. My greater concern is that a company, with the involvement of none other than Eric Schmidt, is steering and molding our current (potentially former) first mover advantage to their own ends. I think a diversified array of software choices hardens Bitcoin even further from outside control. Hiring a majority of the devs of the inertia driven "reference" client has proven much cheaper than a 51% attack, highlighting a fragile facet of our antifragile currency.

 
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January 10, 2016, 10:54:12 PM
 #92

I must be strong...
>disturbing unconscious thought processes, which involved boys getting savagely raped
Was it very horrible for you?

>I traded most of my iD shares for hardware
Denying hilarity violence lets the lel pain linger. Chin up, type it, boy! It's IceDrill, Baby!
After all this time, don't you feel you should? Here, in your Safe Place, amongst your friends?
Though it's mighty tempting to demolish your 'I got some broken doorstoppers for my money' bit, such pettiness is simply beneath me.

That said, I'm not a heartless monster. I do feel for you.
I mean, all that kowtowing to HashFast, anal adventures vis-a-vis IceDrill, and all ...for what? To later learn that sly Cypher got 3k BTC, and without swallowing? While you...
Heartbreaking, that's what it is Sad

I've been aware of Cypherdoc's sales commission for longer than you have.  Your low-information straw-grasping amuses me.

My Sierras ran like champs once the firmware was stable.  And they kept running for the guys who bought them.   Smiley

Your entire post is off-topic, and your icky fixation on sexual violence explains why you are using a throwaway account.

But we understand you want to distract everyone from the point of the OP, which is Gavin's "economic crisis is over and NFLX will fiber to the screen ASAP" thesis becomes increasingly invalid with each passing day.

[ZEROHEDGE] Mid-East Massacre: Equity Markets Plunge From Bahrain To Kuwait

[ZEROHEDGE] FXCM Doubles Yuan Margins, Warns Of Market "Disruption And Highly Illiquid Conditions"


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
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January 10, 2016, 10:58:51 PM
 #93


Can we get back on topic please? This thread is about Gavin's naïve impression that internet bandwidth worldwide is improving over time.
...

Sure.  We all know (or think we know) that 'disk' is not really a factor in Bitcoin scaling...

Undecided

Quote
I actually don't doubt that 'Moore's law' has held up better than my 'consumer grade' experience of the decade or so, but it is fairly clear that the friuits of this phenomenon are realized by a wholly different class of beneficiaries.  And I don't trust this class to serve my interests when it comes to protecting my assets against attack.

I've always said that market forces will not distribute technological advancements evenly, and the reasons for this are fairly obvious (to me at least.)  At this point it probably is the case that the likes of Google, Facebook, etc, could run Bitcoin as the global monetary system for everything and everyone.  If not now, they will be able to within a few years while it is completely unlikely that lesser class infrastructure providers will.  Bitcoin could 'evolve' to take advantage of this support base, but in doing so it will lose any advantage it may have over established fiat systems.

We're not in violent disagreement here. Although, I don't think miners moving to software with a 2-4MB max makes this inevitable or even likely. My greater concern is that a company, with the involvement of none other than Eric Schmidt, is steering and molding our current (potentially former) first mover advantage to their own ends. I think a diversified array of software choices hardens Bitcoin even further from outside control. Hiring a majority of the devs of the inertia driven "reference" client has proven much cheaper than a 51% attack, highlighting a fragile facet of our antifragile currency.

 

Here's Gmax's take on it:
Quote
We founded Blockstream to create a way to fund significant infrastructure work on complex cryptographic protocols that weren't getting developed due to lack of time and resources. The existing support for even the most basic Bitcoin development-- even just maintenance-- has been sparse to non-existent, unstable, and comes with its own strings attached. Developers going off to work for Bitcoin companies seemed to vanish, and the big tech companies pay very well to people with the skills required to contribute meaningful in this space... Most other Bitcoin companies, saddled by enormous regulatory and currency related risks have been unwilling or unable to substantially fund serious technical development. I believe that having a diversity of models is essential to building a sustainable ecosystem.

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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January 10, 2016, 11:05:41 PM
 #94

Can we get back on topic please? This thread is about Gavin's naïve impression that internet bandwidth worldwide is improving over time.

I second this motion.

Bandwidth will continue to improve in best case scenarios, but Gavin is a unwise to risk destroying Bitcoin if something worse happens instead.

Gavin has to know Nielsen's (like Moore's) "Law" is merely a cutesy figure of speech based on backward-looking observation, not a guarantee the future will be exactly (or even remotely) like the past.

How did you vote in the poll, compromised or crazy?


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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January 10, 2016, 11:25:33 PM
 #95

I've been aware of Cypherdoc's sales commission for longer than you have.  Your low-information straw-grasping amuses me.

My Sierras ran like champs once the firmware was stable.  And they kept running for the guys who bought them.   Smiley

Your entire post is off-topic, and your icky fixation on sexual violence explains why you are using a throwaway account.

But we understand you want to distract everyone from the point of the OP, which is Gavin's "economic crisis is over and NFLX will fiber to the screen ASAP" thesis becomes increasingly invalid with each passing day.

[ZEROHEDGE] Mid-East Massacre: Equity Markets Plunge From Bahrain To Kuwait

[ZEROHEDGE] FXCM Doubles Yuan Margins, Warns Of Market "Disruption And Highly Illiquid Conditions"

Just trying to help you cope with Cypher making 3k BTC, while you? You got IceDrilled. Up the pooper Smiley


Sounds like you risked more than you could afford to lose.  Seek help for your compulsive gambling problem.

I will not be persuaded by your appeals to jealousy and 20/20 hindsight.

If you can't post on-topic, please leave the thread.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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January 11, 2016, 02:09:39 AM
 #96

...
We're not in violent disagreement here. Although, I don't think miners moving to software with a 2-4MB max makes this inevitable or even likely. My greater concern is that a company, with the involvement of none other than Eric Schmidt, is steering and molding our current (potentially former) first mover advantage to their own ends. I think a diversified array of software choices hardens Bitcoin even further from outside control. Hiring a majority of the devs of the inertia driven "reference" client has proven much cheaper than a 51% attack, highlighting a fragile facet of our antifragile currency.

Schmidt taking a share of Blockstream doesn't surprise or bother me that much.  I'm sure he has some hope of guiding the company's trajectory, or at least keeping informed on it, but I'm also fairly confident that the important players (esp, Back, Maxwell and Wuille) are well aware of and wary of this, and I think it probable that they would bail if it became a problem.  In the mean time, the work made possible by the availability of resources is open-source to a reasonable degree and if they split what (if any) is not open would probably go along with them.

My confidence in Back-n-co is not infinite, but they are by far the best bet as far as I'm concerned. I feel this way because of their documented history and the quality of their work.  It would have been really interesting to know how Finney would have felt or acted wrt to Blockstream.  I do have points of dispute with at least Back and Maxwell but they are minor and I feel that the overall objective for Bitcoin is similar to what I would like to see happen.

I might add that I don't care much about the 'client' (reference or not.)  It's the protocol which is key as far as I'm concerned.  Ya, having some control over 'the reference client' at this point in Bitcoin's evolution does probably translate into having some significant input into what is practical to do at the protocol level, but it is not a significant concern to me.  To me it's just kind of an organic reality and less risky than the alternate.  I didn't feel that way earlier in Bitcoin's evolution, and I probably won't feel that way half a decade from now (if Bitcoin is still around) but that's my stance at this point.


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January 11, 2016, 02:43:42 AM
 #97

Can we get back on topic please? This thread is about Gavin's naïve impression that internet bandwidth worldwide is improving over time.

Watching iCE gag and sputter when given a dollop of his own medicine is not gratifying at all, and is a grave insult to the great number of bitcoiners who have suffered brutal and occasionally undeserved surprise secs.


Ok on thread: Maybe Gavin is wrong, stupid and evil, but I do not think that one sentence tells you much of anything. Also the poll is pretty bad.

Case closed?

As for scaling I believe something like 2mb and 20% growth would definitely be safe.

I also believe that even larger blocks would be safe if we developed swarm nodes:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1314482.0

Cheap and sexy Bitcoin card/hardware wallet, buy here:
http://BlochsTech.com
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January 11, 2016, 04:14:07 AM
 #98

...
We're not in violent disagreement here. Although, I don't think miners moving to software with a 2-4MB max makes this inevitable or even likely. My greater concern is that a company, with the involvement of none other than Eric Schmidt, is steering and molding our current (potentially former) first mover advantage to their own ends. I think a diversified array of software choices hardens Bitcoin even further from outside control. Hiring a majority of the devs of the inertia driven "reference" client has proven much cheaper than a 51% attack, highlighting a fragile facet of our antifragile currency.

Schmidt taking a share of Blockstream doesn't surprise or bother me that much.  I'm sure he has some hope of guiding the company's trajectory, or at least keeping informed on it, but I'm also fairly confident that the important players (esp, Back, Maxwell and Wuille) are well aware of and wary of this, and I think it probable that they would bail if it became a problem.  In the mean time, the work made possible by the availability of resources is open-source to a reasonable degree and if they split what (if any) is not open would probably go along with them.

My confidence in Back-n-co is not infinite, but they are by far the best bet as far as I'm concerned. I feel this way because of their documented history and the quality of their work.  It would have been really interesting to know how Finney would have felt or acted wrt to Blockstream.  I do have points of dispute with at least Back and Maxwell but they are minor and I feel that the overall objective for Bitcoin is similar to what I would like to see happen.

I might add that I don't care much about the 'client' (reference or not.)  It's the protocol which is key as far as I'm concerned.  Ya, having some control over 'the reference client' at this point in Bitcoin's evolution does probably translate into having some significant input into what is practical to do at the protocol level, but it is not a significant concern to me.  To me it's just kind of an organic reality and less risky than the alternate.  I didn't feel that way earlier in Bitcoin's evolution, and I probably won't feel that way half a decade from now (if Bitcoin is still around) but that's my stance at this point.


I'll preface by saying that the Blockstream guys are highly competent coders and cryptographers, they were before they formed Blockstream, and they are today. Your placement of trust in them thus far is not alien to me. However, a conflict of interest is an insidious thing, it may start out benign, but under the pressure of investors, deadlines, and runway... may begin to allow a form of self delusion... a self reinforcing mentality that what is best for the company is best for the protocol.

The investors that deposited $21 mil didn't do so out of charity, they were sold an eventual ROI. I'm not satisfied with the thesis that it was "we're going to altruistically contribute open source code to better Bitcoin, which will probably make us massive amounts of money somehow, and we'll dissolve the company while stiffing the investors if we have second thoughts about it." I want to know how they plan to make money, and if artificially crippling the main chain could incubate that plan.

It seems that more distribution of available software is the only way to allow miners, who issue the votes that count, to fully exercise their built in right of voting with hashes. If the miners continue to choose core's direction, so be it, I'll convert my node to a segwit node so it actually continues to fully verify. I got interested in Bitcoin because it felt like there wasn't a central point of control, that it natively resisted control by centralized influence. I have confidence that the market will settle the blocksize just as efficiently as it sets the price and the difficulty, a market with production quotas is not a market. Mining valid blocks is not a trivial thing, and those doing it have an interest in seeing the system they manage be as successful as possible.
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January 11, 2016, 05:02:55 AM
 #99

Maybe Gavin is wrong

Maybe?  Just stop the fucking prevarication and admit it, the financial crisis is not over.

The longer you hem and haw, the more evasive, intensely dishonest, and economically illiterate you look.

[ZEROHEDGE] China Contagion Spills Over To Hong Kong Banks As HIBOR Explodes To Record High, Stocks Tumble
Quote
Chinese stocks are trading at the lows of the day after Overnight HIBOR rates (Hong Kong's interbank borrowing rate) exploded a stunning 939bps to a record high 13.4%. It is clear that banks are utterly desperate for liquidity and/or are extremely concerned about one another's counterparty risk. This has dragged HSCEI down 5% (to its lowest since Oct 2011).


[ZEROHEDGE] This Is What Gold Does In A Currency Crisis, China Edition
Quote
As China’s leaders figure out that pegging the yuan to the dollar while quintupling their debt in five years was a colossal mistake, they are, apparently, concluding that the only way out is a sudden, sharp currency devaluation. As Reuters reports...
   
Quote
China's central bank is under increasing pressure from policy advisers to let the yuan currency fall quickly and sharply, by as much as 10-15 percent, as its recent gradual softening is thought to be doing more harm than good.

    The People's Bank of China (PBOC) has spent billions of dollars buying yuan over recent months to defend the exchange rate, but has failed to stabilize market sentiment.



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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
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January 13, 2016, 11:06:19 AM
 #100


[ZEROHEDGE] Future economic historians may call the period that began in 2007 the “Longest Depression.”

Well that narrows it down.  "Correct" is no longer a viable option.  That leaves "compromised" and "crazy."

Given Gavin's "Classic" alliance with the Cryptsy scammer, I'm leaning towards the former.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
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