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Question: Is Gavin "The Economic Crisis Is Over" Andresen correct, compromised, or crazy?
Correct.  The economy is fine. - 19 (20.9%)
Compromised.  The economy has since 2008 operated on extend and pretend, bailouts, and borrowed time. - 47 (51.6%)
Crazy.  Gavin has ascended to his level of incompetence and gone off the rails. - 25 (27.5%)
Total Voters: 84

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Author Topic: Is Gavin "The Financial Crisis Is Over" Andresen correct, compromised, or crazy?  (Read 6199 times)
iCEBREAKER
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June 25, 2015, 01:27:36 AM
 #1

Given Bitcoin's origin revelation in the midst of the financial crisis and its Genesis Block timestamp's pointed reference to 'another round of bank bail-outs' this kind of Krugmanesque Happy Talk from the self-appointed CEO of Bitcoin raises many questions.

Quote

How can the financial crisis be over when the BIS and subsidiary TBTF zombie banks still roam the earth, consuming the gains of the living?

How can the financial crisis be over when when Bitcoin has yet to assume its rightful place on the throne next to gold's, as a replacement for the world's various forms of dying fiat trash?

Is it prudent to subordinate Bitcoin's fate to the continued success of petrodollar hegemony in the forms of QE N+1, TARP, TALF, and the FOMC Plunge Protection Team?


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June 25, 2015, 05:10:13 AM
 #2


It is truly starting to strain credulity that anyone could trust Gavin to having anything to do with Bitcoin period.

I really have to wonder if Gavin is trying to do some sort of a cry for help here.  e.g., 'I want out but my hands are tied.  Run like a motherfucker!'


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June 25, 2015, 07:08:53 AM
 #3

He talks about the financial crises in bitcoin! -> Translation: Bearmarket is over. He knows a huge pump is coming and this is exactly why he is afraid, the blocksize limit could be too small.

Always wrong until not.
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June 25, 2015, 07:15:52 AM
 #4

He talks about the financial crises in bitcoin! -> Translation: Bearmarket is over. He knows a huge pump is coming and this is exactly why he is afraid, the blocksize limit could be too small.

Hardly. Read the quote. He's saying big companies will start making investments into infrastructure which will lead to the improved broadband speeds for the consumer. I doubt that has anything to do with Bitcoin's price.

That said, what's the relevance here, icebreaker?

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June 25, 2015, 07:43:49 AM
 #5

i don't see it ended yet, there is still problem all over the word regarding unemployment, and countries bankruptcy

i still think that we are in a compromised state, and crypto will help us in some way to exit from this fiat disaster
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June 25, 2015, 08:05:40 AM
 #6

i don't see it ended yet, there is still problem all over the word regarding unemployment, and countries bankruptcy

i still think that we are in a compromised state, and crypto will help us in some way to exit from this fiat disaster
Our currenct fiat currency system has many inherent issues. Once crisis comes out and we find ways to tame it, but never really fix them! Crypto may resolve some of these issues! Who knows, no one really tries to implement crypto concept to our exising system!   

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June 25, 2015, 08:59:42 AM
 #7

He talks about the financial crises in bitcoin! -> Translation: Bearmarket is over. He knows a huge pump is coming and this is exactly why he is afraid, the blocksize limit could be too small.

Hardly. Read the quote. He's saying big companies will start making investments into infrastructure which will lead to the improved broadband speeds for the consumer. I doubt that has anything to do with Bitcoin's price.

That said, what's the relevance here, icebreaker?

Predicating larger blocks on a putative economic recovery (and subsequent retail broadband explosion) may not be the safest or wisest strategy.

Of all things to base Bitcoin's [future?] magic numbers on, Krugmanesque happy talk about the miracles of Keynesian statism is one of the most bizzarre.

How is retail broadband coming along in Greece?  Ukraine?  Venezuela?  Argentina?  Larger blocks make Bitcoin nodes harder to operate in some of the places where it is needed the most, and where (for purposes of diversity/diffusion/resiliency/defensibility) Bitcoin most needs its nodes to be.

On a side note, now that we know they operate on entirely contradictory premises/assumptions, it's amusing to watch cypherdoc (who nearly everyday proclaims the financial crisis is *not* over) strenuously cheerlead for gavin@tla.mit.edu on 20MB blocks, XTortion forks, or whatever the latest crackpot of scheme of hearn@google.mil is.   Smiley


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"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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tabnloz
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June 25, 2015, 09:40:11 AM
 #8

Given Bitcoin's origin revelation in the midst of the financial crisis and its Genesis Block timestamp's pointed reference to 'another round of bank bail-outs' this kind of Krugmanesque Happy Talk from the self-appointed CEO of Bitcoin raises many questions.

Quote

How can the financial crisis be over when the BIS and subsidiary TBTF zombie banks still roam the earth, consuming the gains of the living?

How can the financial crisis be over when when Bitcoin has yet to assume its rightful place on the throne next to gold's, as a replacement for the world's various forms of dying fiat trash?

Is it prudent to subordinate Bitcoin's fate to the continued success of petrodollar hegemony in the forms of QE N+1, TARP, TALF, and the FOMC Plunge Protection Team?

While I agree the financial crisis is not over per-se, in context Gavin's quote is just reasoning that businesses are beginning to invest again and bandwidth will become less of a problem. Don't be disingenuous in order to fit your agenda.
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June 25, 2015, 09:46:55 AM
 #9

I feel like you're trying a bit to undermine Gavin.
If you take a look at the result, you can see that people are really divided when it comes to this. Gavin isn't the only on thinking that it is over.


I don't think that it is over, however looking at the big picture it isn't too far from being over. We've had a number of countries that had problems even before that started. We can see various unemployment charts to see that at least that had improved.

There will always be economic problems somewhere (e.g. Argentina, Greece, Russia) however most of the major economies are stable right now (US, Eurozone except Greece, UK, ..) - this wasn't the case in 2008/2009.

The crisis is over and Bitcoin is the winner - it's all over Wall Street now.
Russia has economic problems?
Quote
Russia: Net Debt: $243 billion; Forex Reserves: $370 billion; Surplus: $127 billion
United States: Net Debt: $18,315 billion; Forex Reserves: $121 billion; Deficit: $18,194 billion
Even though one can't use this as the only measurement, there are other factors telling us otherwise. Unemployment rate in the US is 5.5% and in Russia 5.6% right now. I'm not saying that they don't have any problems, however you can't really put them in the same bag as Greece.


-snip-
How is retail broadband coming along in Greece?  Ukraine?  Venezuela?  Argentina?  Larger blocks make Bitcoin nodes harder to operate in some of the places where it is needed the most, and where (for purposes of diversity/diffusion/resiliency/defensibility) Bitcoin most needs its nodes to be.

On a side note, now that we know they operate on entirely contradictory premises/assumptions, it's amusing to watch cypherdoc (who nearly everyday proclaims the financial crisis is *not* over) strenuously cheerlead for gavin@tla.mit.edu on 20MB blocks, XTortion forks, or whatever the latest crackpot of scheme of hearn@google.mil is.   Smiley
There are not going to be 20 MB blocks. We are going to see 8 MB blocks from 2016 to 2018 which is okay. To download a 8 MB block within 5 minutes (even though blocks should be 10 minutes each) one needs a transfer rate 26.6 KB/s. Are you telling me that those countries don't have such internet speeds? However, bandwidth might be a problem.
Greece has quite decent internet actually, stop talking nonsense.


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June 25, 2015, 01:17:38 PM
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He is not crazy but mentally retarded.
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June 25, 2015, 01:26:28 PM
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This Gavin-bashing smear campaign is pretty sad.
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June 25, 2015, 01:31:30 PM
 #12

This Gavin-bashing smear campaign is pretty sad.

Agreed. It's still a gob smacking quote.
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June 25, 2015, 02:01:13 PM
 #13

Chian wants to be ther world reserve currency and America has more debt than it could ever pay off.. it couldn't even pay the interest payments if it rose interest rates.

It's just about to being.
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June 25, 2015, 02:19:54 PM
 #14

Oh, so the lead developer of a software project is not necessarily the most competent person alive when it comes to matters of international economics? Who da thunk it?

Come on, are you f***in serious?
He's a software developer, not an economist.
Now close this thread.

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June 25, 2015, 02:20:37 PM
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The financial crisis is over because FED printed 4 trillion dollars, now these dollars are all in the commercial banks' account and can be used to drive any kind of projects. As long as people believe in USD's value, those added trillion dollars are added wealth since they can drive the production of wealth

But if average house hold believe that dollar's value should drop to 1/5 because of FED printed 5x money, then the money printing will not work any more. Unfortunately, it might take many decades before people have that kind of understanding of fiat currency, maybe never

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June 25, 2015, 02:24:55 PM
 #16

He talks about the financial crises in bitcoin! -> Translation: Bearmarket is over. He knows a huge pump is coming and this is exactly why he is afraid, the blocksize limit could be too small.

Hardly. Read the quote. He's saying big companies will start making investments into infrastructure which will lead to the improved broadband speeds for the consumer. I doubt that has anything to do with Bitcoin's price.

That said, what's the relevance here, icebreaker?

Predicating larger blocks on a putative economic recovery (and subsequent retail broadband explosion) may not be the safest or wisest strategy.

Of all things to base Bitcoin's [future?] magic numbers on, Krugmanesque happy talk about the miracles of Keynesian statism is one of the most bizzarre.

How is retail broadband coming along in Greece?  Ukraine?  Venezuela?  Argentina?  Larger blocks make Bitcoin nodes harder to operate in some of the places where it is needed the most, and where (for purposes of diversity/diffusion/resiliency/defensibility) Bitcoin most needs its nodes to be.

On a side note, now that we know they operate on entirely contradictory premises/assumptions, it's amusing to watch cypherdoc (who nearly everyday proclaims the financial crisis is *not* over) strenuously cheerlead for gavin@tla.mit.edu on 20MB blocks, XTortion forks, or whatever the latest crackpot of scheme of hearn@google.mil is.   Smiley

what's lunacy, and thug-like, is you putting up a poll with all negative choices towards Gavin.  desperation much?

furthermore, you and all the other 1MB'ers are wrong on focusing on the full node as "the" decentralization metric.  spreading Bitcoin usage into just those areas you mention above, Greece, Ukraine, etc, is precisely what Bitcoin needs to decentralize.  i much more trust those ppl to ignore any local gvt decrees to shut down Bitcoin than panzies like you who spout alot of iCEBlow but who would roll over in an instant if Mommy gvt said "boo".
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June 25, 2015, 03:16:26 PM
 #17

The financial crisis is overTM



what then?
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June 25, 2015, 03:50:03 PM
 #18

Oh, so the lead developer of a software project is not necessarily the most competent person alive when it comes to matters of international economics? Who da thunk it?

Come on, are you f***in serious?
He's a software developer, not an economist.
Now close this thread.

This!
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June 25, 2015, 03:55:37 PM
 #19

He talks about the financial crises in bitcoin! -> Translation: Bearmarket is over. He knows a huge pump is coming and this is exactly why he is afraid, the blocksize limit could be too small.

Not really, it sounds like he's talking about the economy in the classic sense, nothing to do with BTC.
Im a proposal for a blocksize increase and like his model of 8MB of increase per 2 year schelude, but if this guy thinks the financial crisis is over then he has no idea whatsoever when it comes to actual geopolitics/economics. Let's not forget this guy is a geek/nerd at heart and not a geopolitical analyst.

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June 25, 2015, 04:15:25 PM
 #20

Chian wants to be ther world reserve currency and America has more debt than it could ever pay off.. it couldn't even pay the interest payments if it rose interest rates.

It's just about to being.

I disagree. China doesn't want to be the reserve currency but it does want to be part of the big club. The US has the 'advantage' of being the reserve currency and therefore the strongest of a shaky bunch. There will probably be a monetary reset again soon enough, ala Bretton Woods, lets see if it is forced by a panic or pre empts one.
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