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Author Topic: Bitcoin Forum Proposal: Ban All Securities & Lending (+ Gambling) offers  (Read 1068 times)
ZenInTexas
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September 16, 2012, 02:23:30 PM
 #1

I realize that some of you with vested interests in this area may consider this an assault on your rights of free speech.  However, there are specific rules.  These rules are designed to protect innocent and unsuspecting members of the community.

The topic is the summary.  I could go on about how bitcoin is young and needs to be protected, or how recent events regarding lending have shaken the bitcoin economy.  But that's not a very persuasive reason to those who stand to loose money.

Basically, I am sure some of you are aware that countries(and even local rules, example US states) have strict rules about marketing, dealing and/or offering these products.  If bitcoin.org wants to avoid being associated with fraudulent and illegal activities, it should move quickly to remove certain categories.   These categories have allowed entities to offer products that potentially violate US rules.   At the least it should ban open topics regarding offering these products to US based bitcoin members.

I realize some of you who post and have an active interest in these areas might think this is too harsh a preemptive action.  However, these examples that should keep the moderators up at night: craigslist, megaupload, Full Tilt Poker; at the minimum Mt. Gox implemented Anti-Money Laundering and Know Your Customer rules, common to US financial entities.

Some of you may argue that bitcoin's are a virtual currency and is above the law.  Be careful what you wish for, because so far above the law has meant lots of fraud.

Edit: Sorry, I meant BitcoinTalk.org, referring to this site.   Thanks to Stephen Gornick for pointing that out.

Summary: Bitcoin mining & payment acceptance/currency exchange are the only legitimate revenue generating opportunities.  If you mine, invest in ASICs and go big to ensure profitability.  The long term viability of all other pure bitcoin businesses is questionable both from a legal and profitability outlook.
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Capital One Corporation
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September 16, 2012, 02:33:13 PM
 #2

That's easy. Lots of the non-US companies' fund raising documents will declare that please do not invest if you are an America. Of course, the issuers are not obligated to verify the investors' nationality when the security is being publicly traded.

The issuers should NOT be an America according to my understanding of the US laws, or they have to register in SEC and publish way more sophisticated financial reports.
squall1066
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September 16, 2012, 02:34:07 PM
 #3

Bitcoin is a intellectual currency and IMO should not be tarnished with local/state policies and laws, I believe this is something revolutionary that needs it's own area of judgement, Bitcoin is young and people are (as a species) short sighted, Unable to grasp a concept that is longer than a persons lifetime. This is much longer than that, And at this stage need to define how to govern a property that is designed to be anonymous.

But ultimately, As an intellectual property, You need to be able to grasp its uses and missuses in order to protect yourself. Honestly if people thought more about what they do with their coins, there would be alot less scams.

Problem is, Because in reality it is just a number on a screen, It gets treated as such, We all need to realize the potential of this currency.

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Bitrated user: squall1066.
matthewh3
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September 16, 2012, 02:44:02 PM
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Bitcoin is a intellectual currency and IMO should not be tarnished with local/state policies and laws, I believe this is something revolutionary that needs it's own area of judgement, Bitcoin is young and people are (as a species) short sighted, Unable to grasp a concept that is longer than a persons lifetime. This is much longer than that, And at this stage need to define how to govern a property that is designed to be anonymous.

But ultimately, As an intellectual property, You need to be able to grasp its uses and missuses in order to protect yourself. Honestly if people thought more about what they do with their coins, there would be alot less scams.

Problem is, Because in reality it is just a number on a screen, It gets treated as such, We all need to realize the potential of this currency.

I agree in the UK/EU at least bitcoin is traded tax free like gold bullion.  It's only when you start converting it into local currency that capital gains tax comes into play.  If everything is kept in bitcoin then no taxes or regulations are involved.

Capital One Corporation
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September 16, 2012, 02:46:28 PM
 #5

The old-fasioned financial industry is like dinosaur. Some of the rules are set to protect their financial proxy roles and profit, but not protect the people. You cannot explain the financial crisis if you say that those laws are set to protect people.

We need no FATHER in the bitcoin community, so that I think ban the post is not a good idea. But drill into the US law and find some best practice to make it legally plausible is what we should do.
Stephen Gornick
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September 16, 2012, 08:45:20 PM
 #6

If bitcoin.org wants to avoid being associated with fraudulent and illegal activities,

This forum is BitcoinTalk.org

Is that perhaps what you meant to write?


These categories have allowed entities to offer products that potentially violate US rules.

I didn't realize BitcoinTalk was based out of the U.S.  

And reportedly, it isn't.

The forum isn't based in the US.

BitcoinINV
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September 16, 2012, 08:48:14 PM
 #7

You can move all the securities here http://www.bitcoinbusiness.org Cheesy

BorderBits
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September 16, 2012, 09:51:30 PM
 #8

Banning such ventures would have a negative impact on my mining business as these high risk ventures are a jackpot of pure-strain comedy gold.  Similarly, libertarian tears easily convert to comedy gold. 
greyhawk
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September 16, 2012, 09:54:37 PM
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I didn't realize BitcoinTalk was based out of the U.S.  

And reportedly, it isn't.

The forum isn't based in the US.

Which makes this all the more strange

http://www.geoiptool.com/de/?IP=bitcointalk.org

Huh.... who do we know in Texas?

Very misleading.



ZenInTexas
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September 16, 2012, 10:16:57 PM
 #10

I respect the idea of a non-fiat virtual currency concept, and I want it to give it chance.

However, like any new area, if naive or innocent people get hurt, that's not right. (even if it was originally unintentional harm, ex honest lenders/deposit takers)  Realistically, the recent losses are fairly small compared to what happens in the US SEC's world, and probably won't attract the US SEC's attention.  But that might not be the case in the future.

When laws are broken, it gives authorities the right to determine if it's worth going after the suspect.  It doesn't matter if bitcoin was formed with the intention of being an ideal answer to every financial system's problem(just joking, but I think you understand).  If bitcoin is disruptive enough or if it draws enough attention & fraudulent activity, it will become a topic for the authorities.

I would think supporters of bitcoin have an aligned interest to limit the acts that might attract unwanted attention.  I would hope the idealists in us all want to limit the harm that might occur to naive or innocent people.  I hope the developers & early adopters, are smart enough to avoid fraud, and I don't really worry about them.  It's the newcomer's that need protecting, for it's those folk who will tell their friends and spread the word, good or bad.

I name dropped craigslist.  Maybe it wasn't enough to name drop; Let me be specific, it involved US state attorney generals, here is one news clipping (there are many others): http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=7507090&page=1#.UFZLlhUUBKY.

Summary: Bitcoin mining & payment acceptance/currency exchange are the only legitimate revenue generating opportunities.  If you mine, invest in ASICs and go big to ensure profitability.  The long term viability of all other pure bitcoin businesses is questionable both from a legal and profitability outlook.
BinaryMage
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September 17, 2012, 12:22:41 AM
 #11

This thread should be in Meta.

-- BinaryMage -- | OTC | PGP
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