"Avalon" ASIC, announcement & pre-order. pre-order over. project started.

[ngzhang]

is there a power budget cap for pre-order deisgns?

I ask this because electricity costs are a major factor in Australia...currently I pay AU$0.22kW/hr (about US$0.25kW/hr) so the GH/s : kW/hr is my main assessment tool

if use front end simulation result, the power consume is only about 120~160watt for a 60G rig (just like BFL's pronounce), but....

by our engineering experience, it MAY higher than this value. but i think it will be in a "hundreds of watt" range.

or:

if you guys all consider that, the MH/W is a very important value, we could pay more effort on energy consumption optimize.

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[flynn]

if you guys all consider that, the MH/W is a very important value, we could pay more effort on energy consumption optimize.

Two sides of the bitcoin :

- You need to deliver fast to be among the first to mine with ASICs
- ASICs will at the end place the profitability of mining to the lowest possible value, and within a year or something only the low consumption systems will be profitable.

These two concepts being contradictory, you'll have to find a compromise

[luffy]

if the energy consumption optimizations take a lot of design time then it is a risk.
 I bet on fast delivery at least for the first ASIC batch.
 

[ngzhang]

if you guys all consider that, the MH/W is a very important value, we could pay more effort on energy consumption optimize.

Two sides of the bitcoin :

- You need to deliver fast to be among the first to mine with ASICs
- ASICs will at the end place the profitability of mining to the lowest possible value, and within a year or something only the low consumption systems will be profitable.

These two concepts being contradictory, you'll have to find a compromise

yes, you got the point.

if the energy consumption optimizations take a lot of design time then it is a risk.
 I bet on fast delivery at least for the first ASIC batch.
 

yes, timing is the most important part.

[flynn]

if the energy consumption optimizations take a lot of design time then it is a risk.
 I bet on fast delivery at least for the first ASIC batch.
 

First batch ?

Problem being that the second batch HAS to be EXACTLY the same than the first one if you want cheap chips.

If you want to have a second batch with improved ASICS, you have to go through the whole design process again and pay all the money it costs again.

[julz]

if you guys all consider that, the MH/W is a very important value, we could pay more effort on energy consumption optimize.

Two sides of the bitcoin :

- You need to deliver fast to be among the first to mine with ASICs
- ASICs will at the end place the profitability of mining to the lowest possible value, and within a year or something only the low consumption systems will be profitable.

These two concepts being contradictory, you'll have to find a compromise

I've been repeatedly surprised at the speed of developments regarding FPGAs & ASICs.
With so much competition - it seems to me that 'within a year or something'  may be a short time indeed, and so low power consumption should be a pretty high priority.

[psilan]

if the energy consumption optimizations take a lot of design time then it is a risk.
 I bet on fast delivery at least for the first ASIC batch.
 

First batch ?

Problem being that the second batch HAS to be EXACTLY the same than the first one if you want cheap chips.

If you want to have a second batch with improved ASICS, you have to go through the whole design process again and pay all the money it costs again.

I think he probably means the second production run. Not a chip batch.

[crazyates]

if you guys all consider that, the MH/W is a very important value, we could pay more effort on energy consumption optimize.

I might be alone in this, but shipping times and keeping the cost down is more important to me than power savings. That's just my opinion, though.

[squid]

if you guys all consider that, the MH/W is a very important value, we could pay more effort on energy consumption optimize.

I might be alone in this, but shipping times and keeping the cost down is more important to me than power savings. That's just my opinion, though.

+1

[Berni]

if you guys all consider that, the MH/W is a very important value, we could pay more effort on energy consumption optimize.

I might be alone in this, but shipping times and keeping the cost down is more important to me than power savings. That's just my opinion, though.

+1

[ShadesOfMarble]

+1

[theasian09]

if you guys all consider that, the MH/W is a very important value, we could pay more effort on energy consumption optimize.

I might be alone in this, but shipping times and keeping the cost down is more important to me than power savings. That's just my opinion, though.

It really comes down to how much power is saved.  If we're talking 25 watts for two months extra time, probably not worth it.  There are always options around the power issue including hosting your farm somewhere else where power is cheaper.

[crazyates]

if you guys all consider that, the MH/W is a very important value, we could pay more effort on energy consumption optimize.

I might be alone in this, but shipping times and keeping the cost down is more important to me than power savings. That's just my opinion, though.

It really comes down to how much power is saved.  If we're talking 25 watts for two months extra time, probably not worth it.  There are always options around the power issue including hosting your farm somewhere else where power is cheaper.

I've heard anywhere from 120W to 600W. Frankly I don't care, because as long as it gives 50% more GHs/USD that BFL, I'm interested.

[crazyates]

LOL I just realized something. He's saying if he doesn't get 300 units ordered, then the entire batch gets canceled. Well 300 orders @ 60GH/s each is 18TH/s, all entering the market at the same time ~ Feb 2013. 

[niko]

if you guys all consider that, the MH/W is a very important value, we could pay more effort on energy consumption optimize.

Two sides of the bitcoin :

- You need to deliver fast to be among the first to mine with ASICs
- ASICs will at the end place the profitability of mining to the lowest possible value, and within a year or something only the low consumption systems will be profitable.

These two concepts being contradictory, you'll have to find a compromise

I disagree. You'll have to pick the battle, and focus all resources on winning it. Otherwise you'll end up second or third to deliver (missing the short-term, exclusive asic mining window) and second or third in terms of performance (missing the long-term efficiency battle).

[flynn]

I have a question/idea about the Avalon's structure.

Someone said it would be composed of several chips (from 15 to 30 if my memory is correct)

What would happen if one chip drops dead ? It would be nice if in such case we only lose 1/30 of the hashpower; we could even remove the bad chip if it's presence gets in the way of important things, or physically cut lanes meant for, and then restart the board with the rest of the asics.

It's just that 30 chips on a single board increase the failure rate/probability enough to bother me.

Is that a bad idea ?

[luffy]

LOL I just realized something. He's saying if he doesn't get 300 units ordered, then the entire batch gets canceled. Well 300 orders @ 60GH/s each is 18TH/s, all entering the market at the same time ~ Feb 2013.  

at that time this will be a fraction! i am expecting dificulty to be 10x meaning ~200TH
that means that in order to get the same BTCs/day you have to 10x your current hashrate (the faster the better)
that is why the ASIC delivery time is more critical than power savings!
If someone cannot or doesn't want to get ASIC at least he/she should buy BTC or turn to other coins

[purplesquid]

LOL I just realized something. He's saying if he doesn't get 300 units ordered, then the entire batch gets canceled. Well 300 orders @ 60GH/s each is 18TH/s, all entering the market at the same time ~ Feb 2013.  

at that time this will be a fraction! i expect dificulty to be 10x meaning 180TH

Yes. BFL current estimated TH/s sold from it's thread is around 30 TH/s, this will be another 18TH/s, and there are 2 or 3 other legitimate ASIC making companies trying hard to reach the December halving. So we can guess at least 75 TH/s after the dust settles and more coming online all the time.

We will be at 10M difficulty real soon and I personally have mining contingency plans up to a difficulty of 100M. The real question is, how long will it take to get there? 1 year? 4 years(next reward halving)? The answer will determine how much these machines will ROI.

[c_k]

I would like to firmly place my vote on the energy saving side, some of us have very expensive electricity and it would be a shame to miss the opportunity for optimization.

[libertybuck]

I will order 10+ units of Avalon.

For me time is the first important of thing.