Grexit

[NeuroticFish]

I am so glad the UK never entered with the EU best decision ever. Hopefully the UK/England will leave the EU. The UK can do much much better alone.

Right now the United Kingdom is playing second fiddle to Germany in the European Union. All the major decisions are taken by Germany (and to a certain extent France), with the UK being completely sidelined. A good example is the recent migrant crisis in the Mediterranean. I can’t see any major benefits for the Brits from their EU membership. 

UK is playing well between EU and US. They did very good politics with this and they have a strong position "inside" EU without being actual members.
And "if it's not broken, why fix it?"

[Erdogan]

Guys, the European leaders insist that there is no longer any serious risk from contagion now that the EMU bail-out fund (ESM) is in place and the ECB has full power to act as a lender of last resort, if necessary by buying the bonds of vulnerable states on a mass scale.

Talk. This is risky as fuck.

[jubalix]

yeah but the "brexit" will be because the pound >>>EU.

I am so glad the UK never entered with the EU best decision ever. Hopefully the UK/England will leave the EU. The UK can do much much better alone.

So you think TTIP will be any better?

well no, but not worse.

however i do think England will remember st george's cross one day who she is one day, and then we can see her rise again.

You could not ask for a better history than England really...to be born into a better heritage. the best thing about it is England is an idea...not merely a geographical place.

Even now they still function largely in a civil manner largely without armed police which speaks volumes as most other countries find this incomprehensible.

See most people don't understand the mindset....the English Hate authority in an unprecedented way, and the concept that it's just not cricket.

[LiteCoinGuy]

[ThEmporium]

I came to know from Huffingpost that German Chancellor Angela Merkel will be responsible for the Greece exit from the Euro zone , I do not know how far it is true, since Germany is the euro monetary union’s largest economy and, arguably, its most powerful voice on the international stage. With one decision of Angela Merkel, Greece fate would be either start again for good or end.

[criptix]

I came to know from Huffingpost that German Chancellor Angela Merkel will be responsible for the Greece exit from the Euro zone , I do not know how far it is true, since Germany is the euro monetary union’s largest economy and, arguably, its most powerful voice on the international stage. With one decision of Angela Merkel, Greece fate would be either start again for good or end.

you have to understand that this right now is a classic political fight.

the german goverment is trying to increase the pressure to the maximum.
i honestly dont think that either the germans/eurozone nor greece is ready for maximum pain right now.

it will be a huge blow to the euro and the eu and i doubt that we will just recover easily from it.

[macsga]

I came to know from Huffingpost that German Chancellor Angela Merkel will be responsible for the Greece exit from the Euro zone , I do not know how far it is true, since Germany is the euro monetary union’s largest economy and, arguably, its most powerful voice on the international stage. With one decision of Angela Merkel, Greece fate would be either start again for good or end.

you have to understand that this right now is a classic political fight.

the german goverment is trying to increase the pressure to the maximum.
i honestly dont think that either the germans/eurozone nor greece is ready for maximum pain right now.

it will be a huge blow to the euro and the eu and i doubt that we will just recover easily from it.

Might I interfere, this is not a political fight; this is just politics. That's what those people do - produce nothing and just keep gaining time. Until the next elections.
PS: There won't be a Grexit. Probably no referendum either. Deal tonight, before midnight (CET).

[HigsonPP]

It's certainly true that a currency that could be devalued could increase competitiveness. That could help Greek exporters. It would remove some important excuses for Greek failure - Summers.

Yes, the devaluation of the currency can definitely open roads for greek exporters, and then there would be no excuses left for all of these apparent failures.

[Xialla]

uhh so what happened with Greece? no referendum and they said just Yes, more money from EU? how stupid they are..

[criptix]

current status:

eurogroup talking in a videoconference at 7.00 pm CET about greece offer of a third bailout plan (2 years under the ESM with reconstruction of the national debt).

merkels answer: no negotiations with germany before the referendum.

/edit

interesting: after german news merkel was actually inclined to move the offer in favor of greece until tsipras called for a referendum.

[bryant.coleman]

It's certainly true that a currency that could be devalued could increase competitiveness. That could help Greek exporters. It would remove some important excuses for Greek failure - Summers.

A devaluation of the new Greek currency will help the economy temporarily for the initial few months (just like what is happening in Russia right now, after the Ruble got devalued). But at the same time, the people will be losing a major part of their savings, and this will have an impact on the long term. Only the bankers will get rich from the currency devaluation.

[Mehek]

So basically The refusal to hold out an olive branch to Greece more or less guarantees that it will not repay a €1.6bn loan to the International Monetary Fund on Tuesday, potentially setting off a domino effect of cross-default clauses and the biggest sovereign bankruptcy in history

[Erdogan]

It's certainly true that a currency that could be devalued could increase competitiveness. That could help Greek exporters. It would remove some important excuses for Greek failure - Summers.

Yes, the devaluation of the currency can definitely open roads for greek exporters, and then there would be no excuses left for all of these apparent failures.

But the importers would lose, so would the consumers of foreign stuff, so would the savers. Are the exporters so huge in numbers that they can just have their way democratically (no), and even if they were, is it right to sacrifice those other groups? (no)

How can a sane person gobble that inflation worship. Maybe they are not sane, rather they are obsessed by someone, just throwing the argument uncritically to the next in line.

Hint: Someones, not exporters, but dominators who talk love but act hate, win on inflation. Check it out.

[giantdragon]

But at the same time, the people will be losing a major part of their savings, and this will have an impact on the long term. Only the bankers will get rich from the currency devaluation.

Smart people don't keep funds in Greek banks!

[bryant.coleman]

Let's examine on who will lose how much. 



Germany and France will be devastated, while the UK will be able to escape without much damage. The Greek default will be a serious blow to the German dominance in the European Union.

[mladen00]

Let's examine on who will lose how much. 



Germany and France will be devastated, while the UK will be able to escape without much damage. The Greek default will be a serious blow to the German dominance in the European Union.

Imho, they will loose only ''monitor screen money'', not the real one

[Amph]

Let's examine on who will lose how much. 

snip

Germany and France will be devastated, while the UK will be able to escape without much damage. The Greek default will be a serious blow to the German dominance in the European Union.

Imho, they will loose only ''monitor screen money'', not the real one

obvious everything is fake in the fiat system, from the cash, to the electronic money, if they lose money they only need one click, and can give you everything, while they proceed to back up it via printing

then one wonders why the collapse of governments happens....

[EternalWingsofGod]

It's inevitable somethings going to give somewhere.

I *hope* its the grexit....


but there seems to be always a last minute deal.

eventually though there won't.

The greexit has begun, as this deal and round of negotiations has failed.
That said of course that doesn't mean they won't continue to try, waits for a Greek NO Vote which means they want to leave the European Union willingly.
July 5 will be an interesting day towards the Grexit actually becoming a real economic and political choice.

uhh so what happened with Greece? no referendum and they said just Yes, more money from EU? how stupid they are..

The July 5th ballot question will say this so interpret it as you will.

It reads: “Should the outline of the agreement submitted by the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund at the Eurogroup of 25/06/15 and which is made up of two parts that constitute their unified proposal be accepted?” before naming two documents written by those three institutions from bailout negotiations in Brussels that broke down last Friday.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/greek-voters-to-decide-on-convoluted-bailout-question-july-5-1435691134

[macsga]

Living in Greece, I must tell you that nobody (literally) knows what today will bring. Many things had pointed to the "last minute deal" (hence my previous post) but that was not the case. Actually, the majority of the mass media circus here, have been reporting a deal while no deal is on the table. There was a proposal from Greek gov't about a haircut of a major amount of the debt and a new program excluding the IMF. No further news on that though, only a leaked document; so I don't expect anything significant without an official statement that certifies the info.

I will keep you posted if I have more news.

[macsga]

Tsipras has just addressed the country:

The Greek PM is showing no signs of backing down on holding a referendum on Sunday, reports Helena Smith from Athens.
She is watching his address to the nation on live TV, and reports.

“After our proposal for a referendum better proposals have been put on the table,” he declares, adding:
“I never expected a democratic Europe not to give space and time [to hold the referendum]. It is a disgrace that we have these scenes of shame because they closed the banks precisely because we wanted to give the people the vote.”
“No does not mean rupture with Europe but return to a Europe with values,”he says.
“No means strong pressure for an agreement of social justice, that will punish [those who promote] corruption.”
“They say I have a supposed plan that if you vote No I will take you out of Europe, they are wrong.”

http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jul/01/greek-debt-crisis-creditors-consider-next-moves-after-imf-default-live#block-5593f91ee4b03edf9cb7bd3e