Grexit

[mrhelpful]

Let's examine on who will lose how much.  



Germany and France will be devastated, while the UK will be able to escape without much damage. The Greek default will be a serious blow to the German dominance in the European Union.

sounds about every larger EU country will be in the waters for this one.

I`m sure the countries can recover, since they are bigger.But similar traits goes to how a drug addict comes back for more drugs, like greece is the user and every other bigger EU country is a supplier.

edit: I take that back, they need a miracle.. the debt is in the trillions.

[techgeek]

i think this should be a lesson for not just greece but any financial restriction on movement for any banks in the future.

another country can have the same traits and growing so it hindsight greece isnt the only one.

[macsga]

This is just in from Yanis Varoufakis blog:

Why we recommend a NO in the referendum – in 6 short bullet points
Posted on July 1, 2015 by yanisv

Negotiations have stalled because Greece’s creditors (a) refused to reduce our un-payable public debt and (b) insisted that it should be repaid ‘parametrically’ by the weakest members of our society, their children and their grandchildren

The IMF, the United States’ government, many other governments around the globe, and most independent economists believe — along with us — that the debt must be restructured.

The Eurogroup had previously (November 2012) conceded that the debt ought to be restructured but is refusing to commit to a debt restructure
Since the announcement of the referendum, official Europe has sent signals that they are ready to discuss debt restructuring. These signals show that official Europe too would vote NO on its own ‘final’ offer.

Greece will stay in the euro.  Deposits in Greece’s banks are safe.  Creditors have chosen the strategy of blackmail based on bank closures. The current impasse is due to this choice by the creditors and not by the Greek government discontinuing the negotiations or any Greek thoughts of Grexit and devaluation. Greece’s place in the Eurozone and in the European Union is non-negotiable.

The future demands a proud Greece within the Eurozone and at the heart of Europe. This future demands that Greeks say a big NO on Sunday, that we stay in the Euro Area, and that, with the power vested upon us by that NO, we renegotiate Greece’s public debt as well as the distribution of burdens between the haves and the have nots.

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/01/why-we-recommend-a-no-in-the-referendum-in-6-short-bullet-points/

[lissandra]

This is just in from Yanis Varoufakis blog:

Why we recommend a NO in the referendum – in 6 short bullet points
Posted on July 1, 2015 by yanisv

Negotiations have stalled because Greece’s creditors (a) refused to reduce our un-payable public debt and (b) insisted that it should be repaid ‘parametrically’ by the weakest members of our society, their children and their grandchildren

The IMF, the United States’ government, many other governments around the globe, and most independent economists believe — along with us — that the debt must be restructured.

The Eurogroup had previously (November 2012) conceded that the debt ought to be restructured but is refusing to commit to a debt restructure
Since the announcement of the referendum, official Europe has sent signals that they are ready to discuss debt restructuring. These signals show that official Europe too would vote NO on its own ‘final’ offer.

Greece will stay in the euro.  Deposits in Greece’s banks are safe.  Creditors have chosen the strategy of blackmail based on bank closures. The current impasse is due to this choice by the creditors and not by the Greek government discontinuing the negotiations or any Greek thoughts of Grexit and devaluation. Greece’s place in the Eurozone and in the European Union is non-negotiable.

The future demands a proud Greece within the Eurozone and at the heart of Europe. This future demands that Greeks say a big NO on Sunday, that we stay in the Euro Area, and that, with the power vested upon us by that NO, we renegotiate Greece’s public debt as well as the distribution of burdens between the haves and the have nots.

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/01/why-we-recommend-a-no-in-the-referendum-in-6-short-bullet-points/

So basically they want a loan modification, just like anyone who wanted one back in 2008, but very few got it.

The question is, if they have no way paying it, the modification of their debt still become debt imo.

[macsga]

So basically they want a loan modification, just like anyone who wanted one back in 2008, but very few got it.

The question is, if they have no way paying it, the modification of their debt still become debt imo.

Not if it's viable. The key here is the debt viability. With a GDP that it's about 25% less than what it was 5 years ago, with taxes up to 40% for every business, with people starving and try to live with the pensions of grandfathers and grandmothers there will be no progress. Not to mention that the debt was institutionalized and transferred from the private sector to the public sector.

Viability is key.

[HigsonPP]

Grexit. Sounds like a cool rap song. The euro zone is kicking me out, but I don't want to leave/ I just want to fuck my economy, make a default and then leave/ You can settle the debts with my old bitches, citizens are deceived/ I am waiting for another country's ass to kiss, cuz there's a loan which i gotta receive     

[dblink]

The whole Eurozone crisis has shown how a monetary union without a political union is worthless.

Just because of one state, it is not fair to blame the monetary union, it has few advantages such as reduction of transactions cost and the avoidance of unnecessary adjustment burdens in the real economy.

[macsga]

The whole Eurozone crisis has shown how a monetary union without a political union is worthless.

Just because of one state, it is not fair to blame the monetary union, it has few advantages such as reduction of transactions cost and the avoidance of unnecessary adjustment burdens in the real economy.

It's all about federalization. Then incorporation with the other big federation (USofA). Putin left the flock that's why they are after him. No one ever really wants the money, they're all after the glory... All this is just a step.

[dinofelis]

The whole Eurozone crisis has shown how a monetary union without a political union is worthless.

Would that mean that bitcoin is hopeless ?  As this is a world monetary union without any hope for a political union ?
And is that also the reason why gold doesn't work out ?

[Amph]

The whole Eurozone crisis has shown how a monetary union without a political union is worthless.

Would that mean that bitcoin is hopeless ?  As this is a world monetary union without any hope for a political union ?
And is that also the reason why gold doesn't work out ?

i don't think it has to do with that, it is the contrary, it show that one entity cannot control well the money that belongs to multiple entity, and the whole printing mania has helped sustaining their crisis a lot

also gold isn't really demostrative, of a thing that isn't centralized

[thaaanos]

The whole Eurozone crisis has shown how a monetary union without a political union is worthless.

Would that mean that bitcoin is hopeless ?  As this is a world monetary union without any hope for a political union ?
And is that also the reason why gold doesn't work out ?

Yup we have discussing this since 2012 no one size fits all in currency, FX needed to match markets impedance

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

The whole Eurozone crisis has shown how a monetary union without a political union is worthless.

Would that mean that bitcoin is hopeless ?  As this is a world monetary union without any hope for a political union ?
And is that also the reason why gold doesn't work out ?

i don't think it has to do with that, it is the contrary, it show that one entity cannot control well the money that belongs to multiple entity, and the whole printing mania has helped sustaining their crisis a lot

also gold isn't really demostrative, of a thing that isn't centralized

Gold isn't centralized at the level of it not being pegged to any particular government, it's a neutral asset. But thats about that, we all know the details. Bitcoin is decentralized in ways that Gold could only dream off, the only think we envy of Gold is his seemingly atemporal network effect.

[macsga]

"It's time for us Greeks we stop to be proud about our ancestors, and starting making proud our children"...
From the "NO" parade today in Athens.



http://tvxs.gr/news/ellada/live-megali-sygkentrosi-yper-toy-oxi-sto-syntagma

[V for Varoufakis]

Grexit is coming. EU is ready?

[V for Varoufakis]

"With the song "Drachma" of Malamas ended his speech Tsipras": http://www.protothema.gr/greece/article/490144/epeisodia-sti-sugedrosi-tou-ohi-sto-sudagma/    lol

[Scamc0p]

Grexit is coming. EU is ready?

Grexit is ?

[macsga]

According to this article: http://www.enikonomia.gr/timeliness/27275,Baroyfakhs-Exoyme-symfwnia-poy-8a-ypografame-amesa.html
mr Varoufakis revealed to the Channel 4's journalist that "Right now we have a proposal that we'd accept right away". And continues: "since we announced the referendum, we've been bombarded with offers that if we had earlier, we'd never go for a referendum".

So, it's basically a "means of pressure" in order to achieve a viable deal that won't ruin the country with more austerity measures and deliver the long awaited economic (and thus social) growth. Besides, it's very well known that EVEN A COUNTRY WANTED, they couldn't flee the Eurozone. It's not documented nor allowed by the initial treaty. So, no Grexit.

If there's a "Yes" (unlikely) - it would mean more austerity measures, more recession and Greece will eventually be the worst place to live in the EU. If there's a "No" Tsipras will have an opportunity to talk on a fresh basis and get a better deal (backed up by the voters).

What's significant though is the fact that many "everyday" people ask about bitcoin here. How they can buy it - how to use it, etc. People start to "get" it. That's the best part of this crisis.

[criptix]

According to this article: http://www.enikonomia.gr/timeliness/27275,Baroyfakhs-Exoyme-symfwnia-poy-8a-ypografame-amesa.html
mr Varoufakis revealed to the Channel 4's journalist that "Right now we have a proposal that we'd accept right away". And continues: "since we announced the referendum, we've been bombarded with offers that if we had earlier, we'd never go for a referendum".

So, it's basically a "means of pressure" in order to achieve a viable deal that won't ruin the country with more austerity measures and deliver the long awaited economic (and thus social) growth. Besides, it's very well known that EVEN A COUNTRY WANTED, they couldn't flee the Eurozone. It's not documented nor allowed by the initial treaty. So, no Grexit.

If there's a "Yes" (unlikely) - it would mean more austerity measures, more recession and Greece will eventually be the worst place to live in the EU. If there's a "No" Tsipras will have an opportunity to talk on a fresh basis and get a better deal (backed up by the voters).

What's significant though is the fact that many "everyday" people ask about bitcoin here. How they can buy it - how to use it, etc. People start to "get" it. That's the best part of this crisis.

that is the gist of the story, but you are describing only one side of the medal.

the other side is, if greece manage to get a good deal the eurozone will have to prepare for alot more greeces and especially this is the reason why the eurozone will fight really hard against a better deal for greece.
dont forget irland,spain,italy and in the future even france - a bailout like with greece wont be possible there.

/edit

@end of germany if grexit

no, just no. its only 90 billion over 5 years - tbh. that is more or less just pocketchange for the german state.
this here is about credibility and reliability of the EURO and the eurozone.

[Amph]

Grexit is coming. EU is ready?

Grexit is ?

the exit of greece from europe, it would only be benefical for europe at this point it's not good for europe to continue lending them money that they cannot return

better to take them out

[LiteCoinGuy]

Greek banks prepare plan to raid deposits to avert collapse - Financial Times

The plans, which call for a “haircut” of at least 30 per cent on deposits above €8,000, sketch out an increasingly likely scenario for at least one bank, the sources said.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/9963b74c-219c-11e5-aa5a-398b2169cf79.html