updated

[btharper]

Eskimobob, this keeping track of shares as if you are trying to catch me in a lie is a bit of a joke. Really, don't worry about it that much. And please, the last thing you want to do is start supporting puppet/deprived and factory ^^ I think you're a little smarter than that.

Eskimobob is doing nothing but posting accurate facts, something your posts seem to lack. The only reason you would think he is trying to catch a lie is if there is a lie to catch.

EskimoBob: this informaiton is useful, please keep it updated periodically (if Usagi does not post the information themself).

Go ahead, i'm just saying it's kind of stupid. You do realize the entire point of this thread, don't you, bitcoinbear? It's to point out the extreme amount of folly around here.

Oh please, don't catch me in a lie mr. eskimobob! LOL... you people, seriously, you have no clue how to run a business, you do nothing, except sit around the forums and berate people who are obviously doing a good job. It's so obvious. You are trolls, or here to increase your post count. It's really pathetic.

Tell me more about how my posts lack truth lol. You're the new guy bro. Keep that in mind.

Actually, the point of the OP was to announce an "aggressive buyback" across your funds. Since several are currently trading above NAV it makes more sense, economically, for you to sell than buy. The current conditions simply don't support a buyback.

EskimoBob's numbers show that not only have you not bought any shares (which again, makes sense) but you've released shares of BMF. (You have also bought back shares of YARR, but that's an insured security which should in theory hit zero eventually anyway.)

Usagi, you run several services that all make a lot of sense in the bitcoin world, and I personally think that insurance is something that bitcoin needs on occasion. There are a lot of people here that will give you a hard time, some of that's due diligence and you will on frequent occasions get a troll, but please don't let the folly pointed out in this thread be your own.

[1714579704]

1714579704

[guruvan]

Well.....I think this is an interesting experiment. I'm not sure I disagree with the logic that suggests an agressive buyback is in order. I'm not sure I agree that the named companies are in fact worth more than the current NAV (but that's a matter of opinion, not fact - and one can easily state one's true opinion in the orderbooks

One thing I'd like to make clear - I (and many other investors) don't give one rat's ass about any USD valuation of BTC or any asset. I just don't care. I do not value my wealth in USD, and only buy USD with my BTC when I need it.

So, to suggest that the value of a company (anyone, suggesting any company's value) has increased because it's value in USD has grown, when it's value in BTC has fallen is simply incorrect. The asset is valued and denominated in BTC. If its value in BTC goes down, its value has gone down. There's just no other way to see this - anything else is smoke and mirror bullshit (this is not specificall directed at you, usagi, but many issuers in general)

Consider a major NYSE company suggesting their value had gone up in EUR while the stock price went down in USD, based on the EUR/USD exchange rate. It's ridiculous.

[markm]

One thing I'd like to make clear - I (and many other investors) don't give one rat's ass about any USD valuation of BTC or any asset. I just don't care. I do not value my wealth in USD, and only buy USD with my BTC when I need it.

So, to suggest that the value of a company (anyone, suggesting any company's value) has increased because it's value in USD has grown, when it's value in BTC has fallen is simply incorrect. The asset is valued and denominated in BTC. If its value in BTC goes down, its value has gone down. There's just no other way to see this - anything else is smoke and mirror bullshit (this is not specificall directed at you, usagi, but many issuers in general)

Consider a major NYSE company suggesting their value had gone up in EUR while the stock price went down in USD, based on the EUR/USD exchange rate. It's ridiculous.

That is silly though, the value of a day's nutrition remains the same, one day of staying alive, regardless of whether bitcoins skyrocket to millions of dollars each or drop to a penny each.

You are looking at the price in some specially volatile unit of measure, not the value.

If bitcoins go up in value faster than stocks or bonds, invest in bitcoins instead of stocks or bonds.

But don't claim e.g. a pound of gold has gone down in value just because you have changed the yardstick you are using to measure the value.

You might just as well measure it in kilograms and complain that it was worth one (measured in pounds) yesterday but only worth a fraction (measured in kilograms) today.

This so called bitcoin you are using to measure with has changed, it was a pound yesterday and a kilo today, good for you if you hold bitcoins, why waste your bitcoins buying something that is not getting heavier as fast as they are?

-MarkM-

[EskimoBob]

Code:

            2012.09.19 2012.09.20      Change     
CPA              52079      52079          0
BMF               5244       5347       +103
NYAN.A            1611       1611          0
NYAN.B            2133       2133          0
NYAN.C            3480       3480          0
YARR               290         80       -210
NYAN       -                 1417-          

Eskimobob, this keeping track of shares as if you are trying to catch me in a lie is a bit of a joke. Really, don't worry about it that much. And please, the last thing you want to do is start supporting puppet/deprived and factory ^^ I think you're a little smarter than that.
[/quote]

Why do yo think that? I have no reason to think you are a liar. Are you a liar? Are you announcing "news" just to manipulate withe the market? I hope not.
I am writing those numbers down for myself and I do not mind sharing the results with others.

Code:

            2012.09.19 2012.09.20 2012.09.21       Change     
CPA              52079      52079      52079          0
BMF               5244       5347       5337         93
NYAN.A            1611       1611       1606         -5
NYAN.B            2133       2133       2127         -6
NYAN.C            3480       3480       3434        -46
YARR               290         80         80       -210
NYAN              1417       1417       1416         -1

[bitcoinbear]

Eskimobob, this keeping track of shares as if you are trying to catch me in a lie is a bit of a joke. Really, don't worry about it that much. And please, the last thing you want to do is start supporting puppet/deprived and factory ^^ I think you're a little smarter than that.

Why do yo think that? I have no reason to think you are a liar. Are you a liar? Are you announcing "news" just to manipulate withe the market? I hope not.
I am writing those numbers down for myself and I do not mind sharing the results with others.

Because what you are doing makes zero sense. Why on earth are you keeping track of the outstanding shares? There seems to be no logical reason. It makes you look a little nuts to be honest. But fine, lol, just could you do it somewhere else? Like make your own thread for it? Thanks...

Actually, what he is doing makes perfect sense. In your OP you said you would be doing an "agressive buyback". By showing the actual change in outstanding shares, he is illuminating what an "agressive buyback" means to you.

[btharper]

Eskimobob, this keeping track of shares as if you are trying to catch me in a lie is a bit of a joke. Really, don't worry about it that much. And please, the last thing you want to do is start supporting puppet/deprived and factory ^^ I think you're a little smarter than that.

Why do yo think that? I have no reason to think you are a liar. Are you a liar? Are you announcing "news" just to manipulate withe the market? I hope not.
I am writing those numbers down for myself and I do not mind sharing the results with others.

Because what you are doing makes zero sense. Why on earth are you keeping track of the outstanding shares? There seems to be no logical reason. It makes you look a little nuts to be honest. But fine, lol, just could you do it somewhere else? Like make your own thread for it? Thanks...

Actually, what he is doing makes perfect sense. In your OP you said you would be doing an "agressive buyback". By showing the actual change in outstanding shares, he is illuminating what an "agressive buyback" means to you.

No, he's not... lol, you can't seriously believe that

What would you have us believe then? Is there a reason that the number of outstanding bonds wouldn't reflect an ongoing buy-back?

[EskimoBob]

Your latest posts are quite strange, I must say. Not sure, why are you trying to make me look like an idiot.
If you do not know what you promised on page 1, let me refresh your memory:

There's a saying, be careful what you wish for. Well I am getting really sick of the trolls attacking me and I've decided to shut the door on them for good.

I've been watching this market for 3 or 4 months now, and I believe it is time to shake the foundations. I've been stretching my wings so to speak via ASICMINER and OBSI.HRPT, and I believe now is the right time to announce PHASE TWO for me and my businesses. What is PHASE TWO? Simple. All my my businesses are hereby OUT OF IPO.

1. All standing asks have been canceled. None of my companies (NYAN, BMF or CPA) currently have asks on the market for their own shares.
2. Each company will be aggressively buying back their own shares.

Why?

This market is a market of people who know very little about actual investing in that everything is priced by it's net asset value. This is not how things are priced in the real world. The net asset value, or book value (as I use the term) is a consideration, yes, but what is more important than that are earnings. And, as we have seen, a strong cash position and good management are also key, especially in tough times. I believe that the market has severely undervalued some companies (like Starfish bank) while at the same time completely overvaluing others (i.e. certain "loans" which have recently defaulted). Basically, if a company does not earn money it is not a good investment.

By stopping sales of shares and doing buybacks (in addition to paying regular dividends as per our contract) I realize some people will be greedy and offer their shares for a higher price than they are worth. Oddly enough, it's true, that me performing this action will actually strengthen the market for my shares. People are always looking for a deal. But I am willing to bet that even so, the people who are doing so do not really understand the value I am offering with my management strategies.

If you have recently bought into my companies, or manage to swing a deal with someone and get in at the current NAV, consider yourself lucky. My strategy here is to force a revaluation based on the earnings of my companies. When it happens I am betting the share price will revalue sharply upwards. Time will tell if I am correct or not, but come hell or high water I will not have my elite, well-run companies valued at just below their NAV simply because there's no liquidity in the market.

My advice to my investors? Think about how much you've invested into my companies and how much they pay each week. Know that I am thinking about this as well, perhaps obsessively. Know that real-world elite managed index funds usually return 1% a month average. Not 1% a week (or 2% or 3%+ for that matter). How much are my companies worth? I think we are about to find out.

Only indication of your actions or lack of, are the number of outstanding shares in:

CPA
BMF
NYAN.A
NYAN.B
NYAN.C
NYAN
YARR

And this is also why I posted a request to GLBSE thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74049.msg1033952#msg1033952
(if you like the idea, please quote it in the "GLBSE - request for next features" thread. For some reason, this simple feature request is still not implemented, while it adds huge value to investors and bring more transparency to the market and issuers actions.

[EskimoBob]

2012-09-21 17:46:13     usagi   Too late. :p That is why companies do buybacks *(thank you for answering what EB could not). Because their company is undervalued. Now I would go back full circle to 45 min ago and point out that is the reason why I am doing share buybacks. As I stated in the OP, I feel my companies are undervalued
2012-09-21 17:46:19     usagi   And so
2012-09-21 17:46:30     usagi   Therefore..... if the company is no longer undervalued
2012-09-21 17:46:33     usagi   I won't be buying back shares
2012-09-21 17:46:35     usagi   Voila
2012-09-21 17:46:52     usagi   Now hopefully my comments to you make more sense EB. I told you. Keep track of share price in addition to share count. Share count is really meaningless
2012-09-21 17:47:28     usagi   Just removing my asks and buying 10 shares in the opposite direction spooked the market into doubling the value of CPA...
2012-09-21 17:47:36     usagi   If I am wrong where are the sales into my bids?

add you favorite "facepalm" picture right here
 

[EskimoBob]

Code:

            2012.09.19 2012.09.20 2012.09.21       Change     
CPA              52079      52079      52079          0
BMF               5244       5347       5337         93
NYAN.A            1611       1611       1606         -5
NYAN.B            2133       2133       2127         -6
NYAN.C            3480       3480       3434        -46
YARR               290         80         80       -210
NYAN              1417       1417       1416         -1

Code:

Symbol     2012.09.19 2012.09.20 2012.09.21 2012.09.22       Change  
CPA              52079      52079      52079      52079          0
BMF               5244       5347       5337       5337         93
NYAN.A            1611       1611       1606       1606         -5
NYAN.B            2133       2133       2127       2127         -6
NYAN.C            3480       3480       3434       3414        -66
YARR               290         80         80         80       -210
NYAN              1417       1417       1416       1416         -1

[Puppet]

2012-09-21 17:46:13     usagi   Too late. :p That is why companies do buybacks *(thank you for answering what EB could not). Because their company is undervalued. Now I would go back full circle to 45 min ago and point out that is the reason why I am doing share buybacks. As I stated in the OP, I feel my companies are undervalued
2012-09-21 17:46:19     usagi   And so
2012-09-21 17:46:30     usagi   Therefore..... if the company is no longer undervalued
2012-09-21 17:46:33     usagi   I won't be buying back shares
2012-09-21 17:46:35     usagi   Voila
2012-09-21 17:46:52     usagi   Now hopefully my comments to you make more sense EB. I told you. Keep track of share price in addition to share count. Share count is really meaningless
2012-09-21 17:47:28     usagi   Just removing my asks and buying 10 shares in the opposite direction spooked the market into doubling the value of CPA...
2012-09-21 17:47:36     usagi   If I am wrong where are the sales into my bids?

add you favorite "facepalm" picture right here
 

usagi clearly doesnt understand market depth. Only an idiot would think that buying 10 shares for 1 BTC could double a company's  value.
Maybe he is learning though, the hard way:

I went to try and sell out some of my HRPT before the weekend, and I noticed that someone was trying to sell over 10,000 shares at or below 0.1.

o_O

I placed some asks but wow, no one is buying. I would have thought people would step in like mad and buy a few shares but I guess someone knows something I don't :/

facepalm indeed.
Here is a hint usagi, thats what happens when you buy ponzi bonds; for some weird reason no one wants to buy them when the ponzi begins collapsing and multiplying your bonds by the ask price is almost as accurate a reflection of your asset value as BurtWs BTCST account info. Ouf of curiosity,  how much exposure do you have to this ponzi? I think your shareholders might want to know.

[EskimoBob]

Let me fix that for you

If you post logs, poste them like they are and not edit to make yourself look like a victim of a imaginary attack.

facepalm indeed.
Here is a hint usagi, thats what happens when you buy ponzi bonds; for some weird reason no one wants to buy them when the ponzi begins collapsing and multiplying your bonds by the ask price is almost as accurate a reflection of your asset value as BurtWs BTCST account info. Ouf of curiosity,  how much exposure do you have to this ponzi? I think your shareholders might want to know.

Lol you guys are a fucking joke.

Now it's EskimoBob. Talking shit on IRC.

<EskimoBob> usagi: over the last few days you have lost most of you credibility
usagi   Well guess what
<EskimoBob> so climb down form your high horse and have a fkn reality check
usagi   I'm an insider to all of this, and when I speak, you should listen.
usagi   Your schtick about credibility is a joke dude,.
<EskimoBob> usagi: LOL fuck off girl_boy
usagi   You know zip and you probably aren't even a shareholder.
usagi   No you fuck off lol
usagi   You talk a lot of shit about stuff you do not know.
usagi   You really know nothing.
usagi   You have a sore ass because looking back.. you should have gotten insured with CPA
usagi   One way or another
usagi   Either a pirate contract or shorting mining
usagi   And you didn't
usagi   Now you want to blame everything on the people who could have saved you. (edit: I have no idea where this is comig from)

EskimoBob       wtf are you talking about now?
<EskimoBob> dude, you really need to change your medication
usagi   We even paid out on matthew debt :>
usagi   You wanna talk about credibility.. Lol.. You have no right to talk to me that way and it makes you look like an idiot.
usagi   Go ahead
usagi   Post the share count numbers for today
usagi   LOL
usagi   LOL
usagi   You dont know when to quit

<EskimoBob> I honestly thought you are one of the few sane people around here but looks like I was wrong
usagi   Come on
usagi   Post the numbrs
usagi   I'm waiting
usagi   Even you have to admit. I am trustworthy
(Edit: I can not believe what I am seeing on the screen)
usagi   I keep my word and I work for my shareholders. So cut the crap.
<EskimoBob> ... You are a nobody. Just another stupid nicname in IRC. Nothing
EskimoBob       usagi: I can talk to how ever I want. Write that down and memorize it. You are a nobody. Just another stupid nicname in IRC. Nothing
usagi   Bzzzt
usagi   I do what I say I am going to do and I don't talk shit about businesses
usagi   You otoh have no conception of what it takes to run a business
<EskimoBob> most of your talk is shit, usagi
usagi   I'm really going to enjoy your explanation of the share count numbers when you post them
usagi   I'm goign to enjoy watchnig you apologize for being wrong.
<EskimoBob> you do not run business. You run some "make believe" bull shit
usagi   Or
usagi   Will you come up with some kind of an excuse
usagi   Lol you will probably come up with some kind of excuse like "we need to wait a month and see what really happens to the share count numbers"
<EskimoBob> usagi: just shut up, no need to make your self in to a even bigger joke you are .. LOL

And so on and so on.

Well EskimoBob, post the share count numbers if you think it means something. All it will prove is one thing -- I do what I say I am going to do, and you talk a lot of BS. Here's a hint fuckface. Pick a security I run and I'll put up a vote on who should run it -- ME or YOU. If you think you have the balls and want to talk about issues like credibility and ability but like most people you have no actual balls or capacity to do anything other than talk shit. Come on, let's do it. Let's see if you have what it takes or if you're just a shit talker.

So now you resort to shit slinging?

[EskimoBob]

Code:

Symbol     2012.09.19 2012.09.20 2012.09.21 2012.09.22 2012.09.23    Change  
CPA              52079      52079      52079      52079      50829      -1250
BMF               5244       5347       5337       5337       4947       -297
NYAN.A            1611       1611       1606       1606       1606         -5
NYAN.B            2133       2133       2127       2127       2078        -55
NYAN.C            3480       3480       3434       3414       3383        -97
YARR               290         80         80         80         63       -227
NYAN              1417       1417       1416       1416       1336        -81

Good job Usagi.

[btharper]

Code:

Symbol     2012.09.19 2012.09.20 2012.09.21 2012.09.22 2012.09.23      Change    % Bought
CPA              52079      52079      52079      52079      50829      -1250      2.4
BMF               5244       5347       5337       5337       4947       -297      5.6
NYAN.A            1611       1611       1606       1606       1606         -5      0.3
NYAN.B            2133       2133       2127       2127       2078        -55      2.5
NYAN.C            3480       3480       3434       3414       3383        -97      2.7
YARR               290         80         80         80         63       -227     78.2
NYAN              1417       1417       1416       1416       1336        -81      5.7

Good job Usagi.

Now that looks like aggressive buyback. Dropping lots of shares across the board.

The one exception is NYAN.A, but as that is guaranteed in terms of value and return AND feeds into the other NYAN operations, it makes a lot of sense not to buy back much of that.

I added a % Bought column with truncated percentages. (To be clear, these numbers are not rounded to the nearest 0.1) Just a bit easier to compare funds with over 50k shares issued like CPA against 5k shares like BMF; that order of magnitude makes the buy backs on CPA look bigger than that on BMF to me, but the reverse is true by percentage (as I don't know what current share price is, I can't comment).

[MPOE-PR]

Eskimobob, this keeping track of shares as if you are trying to catch me in a lie is a bit of a joke. Really, don't worry about it that much. And please, the last thing you want to do is start supporting puppet/deprived and factory ^^ I think you're a little smarter than that.

Why do yo think that? I have no reason to think you are a liar. Are you a liar? Are you announcing "news" just to manipulate withe the market? I hope not.
I am writing those numbers down for myself and I do not mind sharing the results with others.

Because what you are doing makes zero sense. Why on earth are you keeping track of the outstanding shares? There seems to be no logical reason. It makes you look a little nuts to be honest. But fine, lol, just could you do it somewhere else? Like make your own thread for it? Thanks...

Actually, what he is doing makes perfect sense. In your OP you said you would be doing an "agressive buyback". By showing the actual change in outstanding shares, he is illuminating what an "agressive buyback" means to you.

No, he's not... lol, you can't seriously believe that

Actually, bitcoinbear is right on this score.

[Puppet]

Code:

Symbol     2012.09.19 2012.09.20 2012.09.21 2012.09.22 2012.09.23    Change  
CPA              52079      52079      52079      52079      50829      -1250
BMF               5244       5347       5337       5337       4947       -297
NYAN.A            1611       1611       1606       1606       1606         -5
NYAN.B            2133       2133       2127       2127       2078        -55
NYAN.C            3480       3480       3434       3414       3383        -97
YARR               290         80         80         80         63       -227
NYAN              1417       1417       1416       1416       1336        -81

Good job Usagi.

Excellent job indeed, anyone who got to sell their shares to usagi should be grateful for the opportunity. The whole point of the buyback was pushing up share price to where usagi thought it should be, no ? He bought CPA shares up to 0.1 BTC.  Now have a look at the price today. 0.03 BTC with a pretty significant ask wall at 0.034. Mission accomplished ? lol.

[puffn]

Code:

Symbol     2012.09.19 2012.09.20 2012.09.21 2012.09.22 2012.09.23    Change  
CPA              52079      52079      52079      52079      50829      -1250
BMF               5244       5347       5337       5337       4947       -297
NYAN.A            1611       1611       1606       1606       1606         -5
NYAN.B            2133       2133       2127       2127       2078        -55
NYAN.C            3480       3480       3434       3414       3383        -97
YARR               290         80         80         80         63       -227
NYAN              1417       1417       1416       1416       1336        -81

Good job Usagi.

Excellent job indeed, anyone who got to sell their shares to usagi should be grateful for the opportunity. The whole point of the buyback was pushing up share price to where usagi thought it should be, no ? He bought CPA shares up to 0.1 BTC.  Now have a look at the price today. 0.03 BTC with a pretty significant ask wall at 0.034. Mission accomplished ? lol.

You guys are awful. First, when Usagi takes the time to buy back at market prices, you guys shit all over the place about nothing being done. Then, when investor confidence has been fully eroded by your claims, and Usagi is forced to act quickly, and buy at higher prices(was it even Usagi? could have been a momentum investor) to show that it wasn't all talk, you shit all over the place about the price that was paid. Just mind your own business. Please.

[Puppet]

You guys are awful. First, when Usagi takes the time to buy back at market prices, you guys shit all over the place about nothing being done.

I dont think I or anyone else ever claimed it was a good idea to go against the market.  Lets not pretend we somehow pushed him to do it, he is the one who made the OP and we just wanted to see if he was stupid enough to put his money where is mouth was. He did
q.e.d..

But it wasnt entirely innocent or pointless. Market depth was nil a few days ago, so with only 10 BTC usagi could and did double the price of CPA. If the price had stayed there, it would have allowed him to put twice the asset value in all his other books and claim healthy NAV figures. Which of course is bollocks. And that is the real issue. You cant create 5000 BTC of asset value to put in your books by buying 10 BTC worth of shares.

Then, when investor confidence has been fully eroded by your claims

,

If I helped wake up any sleeping investors, then I think thats good. Its not my business to talk up already inflated share prices, I will leave that to usagi.

and Usagi is forced to act quickly, and buy at higher prices(was it even Usagi? could have been a momentum investor) to show that it wasn't all talk, you shit all over the place about the price that was paid.

That he overpaid for those shares isnt the joke here. We are talking about just a handful of coins. Its how disingenuous he is when totally ignoring market depth when valuing his assets. He is still doing that, he calculates his NAV,  even for his ponzi bonds based purely on ask,  even though there are virtually zero bids or they start 50% lower.  All his low volume assets are seriously overvalued because of this, and since he owns much of his own companies through other companies of his own,  and most of them have close to zero market depth its very misleading.

Of course it goes both ways, as I suspect we will soon find out when the snowball starts rolling downhill instead of usagi trying to push it uphill.

[puffn]

I don't have a problem with the assets incestuous ownership. It is pretty standard to have to look a few layers deep past the big 3 accounting sheets in order to determine the value of a company. I think NYAN was a little redundant in that respect, but I think that was made in order to provide a balanced risk portfolio for lazy investors.

As far as your claim of waking up sleeping investors goes, there is a term known as FUD. I don't know if you have heard of it, but the central idea is that if you create Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt, you can manipulate markets into behaving irrationally.

Looks like 600 coins of stock bought back. 7k USD isn't something I would sneeze at. I suspect that had you guys not tried to create panic, the stock price would have risen and stayed, but that is neither here nor there. I believe Usagi when he says that CPA earns 150 coins per month in insurance related revenue. I also agree that CPA should only be partially valued based upon NAV. This sort of metric works really well when looking at stock portfolios such as YABIF, but not so well when it comes to actual businesses.

Assets with minimal liquidity are pretty standard for this exchange. This is particularly true since the pirate induced credit shift and the faltering of mining with the ASIC switch.

[Deprived]

I don't have a problem with the assets incestuous ownership. It is pretty standard to have to look a few layers deep past the big 3 accounting sheets in order to determine the value of a company. I think NYAN was a little redundant in that respect, but I think that was made in order to provide a balanced risk portfolio for lazy investors.

As far as your claim of waking up sleeping investors goes, there is a term known as FUD. I don't know if you have heard of it, but the central idea is that if you create Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt, you can manipulate markets into behaving irrationally.

Looks like 600 coins of stock bought back. 7k USD isn't something I would sneeze at. I suspect that had you guys not tried to create panic, the stock price would have risen and stayed, but that is neither here nor there. I believe Usagi when he says that CPA earns 150 coins per month in insurance related revenue. I also agree that CPA should only be partially valued based upon NAV. This sort of metric works really well when looking at stock portfolios such as YABIF, but not so well when it comes to actual businesses.

Assets with minimal liquidity are pretty standard for this exchange. This is particularly true since the pirate induced credit shift and the faltering of mining with the ASIC switch.

I'd be most worried that having lost a ton on Pirate she's now trying to go double or bust on Obsi.  And her companies have more exposure to Obsi than she seems to realise (some of which, in fairness, wasn't her doing and is now unavoidable).  She seems to have confidence in OBSI.HRPT at a time when nearly everyone else in the market believes it's a Ponzi about to crash.  This smacks more of desperation to make a profit (for once), than of planned exposure to a properly assessed risk.

[Puppet]

I don't have a problem with the assets incestuous ownership. It is pretty standard to have to look a few layers deep past the big 3 accounting sheets in order to determine the value of a company. I think NYAN was a little redundant in that respect, but I think that was made in order to provide a balanced risk portfolio for lazy investors.

I dont think there is anything balanced about it. They are all knee deep in obsiponzi and other ponzi schemes. And because of the "incestuous ownership", it will have serious ramifications in all his other companies which either own or insure those bonds.

As far as your claim of waking up sleeping investors goes, there is a term known as FUD. I don't know if you have heard of it, but the central idea is that if you create Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt, you can manipulate markets into behaving irrationally.

A little FUD is certainly warranted if you go over the books. There is every reason to have fear, uncertainty and doubt about what will happen if/when obsiponzi collapses.

I suspect that had you guys not tried to create panic, the stock price would have risen and stayed.

And you think it should have? If you do, then thank us for the opportunity to buy some more shares cheaply.

I believe Usagi when he says that CPA earns 150 coins per month in insurance related revenue.

I have no idea, but it would be interesting to find out how much of that is from other usagi companies and even more what sort of liability those 150BTC cause. If he (she?) insured other bonds that have direct or indirect obsiponzi  exposure, this could become very very ugly very fast. No one pays for insurance if its not to insure some significant liability.