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Author Topic: Large German lobby organization supports ban on Bitcoins  (Read 24628 times)
cloud9
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June 03, 2011, 07:32:03 AM
 #81

Germany has always been afraid of disruptions to their society, another example of this attitude is their hatred for private schools and homeschooling.  They heavily regulate private schools, and homeschooling parents can actually get sent to prison for disruption of state order!

Should there be a distinction between the general German populace and an influential subgroup?

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June 03, 2011, 07:35:33 AM
 #82

Germany has always been afraid of disruptions to their society, another example of this attitude is their hatred for private schools and homeschooling.  They heavily regulate private schools, and homeschooling parents can actually get sent to prison for disruption of state order!

Should there be a distinction between the general German populace and an influential subgroup?

The subgroup gets prosecuted.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 03, 2011, 08:00:36 AM
 #83

Germany has always been afraid of disruptions to their society, another example of this attitude is their hatred for private schools and homeschooling.  They heavily regulate private schools, and homeschooling parents can actually get sent to prison for disruption of state order!

They also have a History with monetary policy. They're willing to do nearly anything to avoid the sort of hyperinflation that preceded World War II. Including, possibly, banning the use of Bitcoins for commercial transactions if they see it as a threat to price stability.
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June 03, 2011, 08:05:44 AM
 #84

"you can't stop the Internet." - Joe Rogan
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June 03, 2011, 08:49:58 AM
 #85

apparently, the market fully understands and appreciates the concerns expressed by bvdw.org ;
mtgox price soared from $9 to $13.5 in just 2 days ... :-)

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June 03, 2011, 10:36:20 AM
 #86

Guess which online money transfer providers are a member of the lobby organization!
Then have a look at this list on the website of the lobby organization: http://payment.bvdw.org/der-payment-markt/anbieter.html

Those aren't actually their members. They are just listing what payment providers there are. Their members are listed on this page:

http://www.bvdw.org/der-bvdw/mitgliedschaft/mitgliedsunternehmen.html

The payment providers that are actually members of BVDW are:

  • eBay (owners of Paypal)
  • deal united
  • Giropay
  • Hi-media Deutschland
  • Deutsche Telekom
  • SafetyPay
  • Payback GmbH

Edit: Added eBay/Paypal - Thanks Nick!!

There may be others that are not on the list of payment providers or are on there under a different name.

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June 03, 2011, 11:11:46 AM
 #87

Guess which online money transfer providers are a member of the lobby organization!
Then have a look at this list on the website of the lobby organization: http://payment.bvdw.org/der-payment-markt/anbieter.html

Those aren't actually their members. They are just listing what payment providers there are. Their members are listed on this page:

http://www.bvdw.org/der-bvdw/mitgliedschaft/mitgliedsunternehmen.html

The payment providers that are actually members of BVDW are:

  • deal united
  • Giropay
  • Hi-media Deutschland
  • Deutsche Telekom
  • SafetyPay
  • Payback GmbH

There may be others that are not on the list of payment providers or are on there under a different name.
Don't forget
  • eBay GmbH
  • eBay Limited, eBay Advertising Group Deutschland
PayPal belongs to eBay I think
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June 03, 2011, 11:15:51 AM
 #88

Don't forget
  • eBay GmbH
  • eBay Limited, eBay Advertising Group Deutschland
PayPal belongs to eBay I think

Very good point. Added. Smiley

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unclescrooge
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June 03, 2011, 11:35:15 AM
 #89

Are you kidding me? This is a cause for celebration! It means we're important.  Grin

This is indeed very good news. Stage 3, they fight us.


... and then you win Smiley

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June 03, 2011, 04:51:10 PM
 #90

Germany has always been afraid of disruptions to their society, another example of this attitude is their hatred for private schools and homeschooling.  They heavily regulate private schools, and homeschooling parents can actually get sent to prison for disruption of state order!

They also have a History with monetary policy. They're willing to do nearly anything to avoid the sort of hyperinflation that preceded World War II. Including, possibly, banning the use of Bitcoins for commercial transactions if they see it as a threat to price stability.

Do not confuse this narrow minded lobby group with the whole country.

If you want to drain a swamp you must not ask the frogs. =)

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June 03, 2011, 06:27:43 PM
 #91

"you can't stop the Internet." - Joe Rogan
Chuck Norris once was annoyed and shut down the Internet with a roundhouse kick

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June 03, 2011, 06:51:21 PM
 #92

lol.

All news I've seen in Swedish papers relating to bitcoin has only been good ones so far Tongue

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June 03, 2011, 06:58:29 PM
 #93

lol.

All news I've seen in Swedish papers relating to bitcoin has only been good ones so far Tongue

Don't the Swedes regard the kind of low level drug trading as can be found on Silk Road to be less-than-criminal, even if they wouldn't care to have it going on at the local playground?  Germans tend to be at least as uptight about other people having fun without permission as those in the US.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 03, 2011, 08:22:07 PM
 #94

Quote
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

So we saw the ridiculoulization of it being worthless.(With a counter attack of weusecarrots.com||weusecoins.com)
Now we got lobbies wanting to ban us. Streisand effect ahead. How fast can an asset climb in value? We are about to find out. Smiley

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June 03, 2011, 09:31:06 PM
 #95

I don´t really see how the article is a bad thing.

Having an honest look look at it, it does qualify Bitcoin as a serious competitor to current currencies.

The arguments against Bitcoins involve two aspects:

A) Enabeling illegal transactions and tax evasion:

- Money laudering/illegal transactions: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-drug-gangs
- Tax evasion: http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/08/12/us-ubs-tax-idUSTRE57B2CF20090812

In summary, both of these aspects seem to work rather well in the current system, no bitcoins needed, banks are happy to help.

B) ´Die außerordentliche Wichtigkeit der Konjunkturpolitik für die Gesellschaft haben die Unternehmen und Organisationen sowie nahezu jeder Verbraucher im Zuge der Finanzkrise bereits erfahren können.`(Approximate translation: Firms, consumers and organisations have experienced the extreme importance of keynsian spending measures in dealing with the financial crisis.)

Whilst the spending measures mostly did work in Germany, I can´t quite get past the irony of this line of argument: Bitcoins have to be banned because their (widespread) existence would make it impossible to deal with (financial)crises, which would not have occured in the first place if bitcoins had existed at the time.

In summary, we have one of the main German IT/payment organizations lobby group recognizing bitcoin as  a valid alternative to current currencies whilst presenting bogus arguments against Bitcoins. I would call that highly beneficial.

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bitwatch
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June 03, 2011, 09:45:23 PM
 #96

Attacks on BTC will have to coordinated by the current powers.  Not sure, but the EU is barely able to move quickly and cohesively with their central bank.  The US is another story.  Monopoly comes to mind.
kloinko1n
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June 04, 2011, 01:10:52 AM
 #97

Attacks on BTC will have to coordinated by the current powers.  Not sure, but the EU is barely able to move quickly and cohesively with their central bank.  The US is another story.  Monopoly comes to mind.
Not really.
As far is 'terrorism' is concerned, the USA is quite able to dictate its rules to the rest of the world.
Look at what they did with air travel.
And as the USA is ruled by the banks, it's clear which way regulation will be heading.
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June 04, 2011, 07:05:55 AM
 #98

lol.

All news I've seen in Swedish papers relating to bitcoin has only been good ones so far Tongue

one day earlier there was a very positive article about bitcoin on the Spiegel website, too. they asked an economics professor and he said he could not find a problem with bitcoin.

the response the next day sure was no coincidence.

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gigabytecoin
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June 04, 2011, 09:13:51 AM
 #99

I have a feeling bitcoin is about to get a lot more press (good and bad) than we are currently receiving!
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June 04, 2011, 07:05:28 PM
 #100

Are we there already?:



"... and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark ... "



Its a quote from a famous book.  Don't think its talking about the German Deutch mark   ?



Or have we already been there all along?



Is Bitcoin a threat to freedom of commerce medium, or is it providing wider medium choice?
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