We should not try to get legality for Bitcoin...

[Come-from-Beyond]

Citation from the last conference material (http://shadowlife.cc/files/btcotc.pdf (slide #18)):

We should not try to get legality for Bitcoin, we should not ask the state to resolve conflicts in the community.

What should we do then?

[greyhawk]

Citation from the last conference material (http://shadowlife.cc/files/btcotc.pdf (slide #18)):

We should not try to get legality for Bitcoin, we should not ask the state to resolve conflicts in the community.

What should we do then?

I am in the process of setting up a bitcoin based PMC for conflict resolution.

[Come-from-Beyond]

What does PMC stand for?

[greyhawk]

Private Military Company

[cbeast]

Private Military Company

Call it the NSS (Not Sure if Serious)

[phantastisch]

Private Military Company

Operating globally ? Do you need a Partner ?

[greyhawk]

Private Military Company

Call it the NSS (Not Sure if Serious)

I was thinking more along the lines of BitForce Gamma (BFG)

Private Military Company

Operating globally ? Do you need a Partner ?

We will certainly entertain applications from all nations, races or religions (except vegetarians).

[kangasbros]

Fixed: We should not try to get legality for Bitcoin, because using bitcoins is already legal.

In any civilized country it is legal to trade using any tools suitable for it (barter is also legal in about every country, if you pay taxes).

[OneEyed]

Citation from the last conference material (http://shadowlife.cc/files/btcotc.pdf (slide #18)):

We should not try to get legality for Bitcoin, we should not ask the state to resolve conflicts in the community.

What should we do then?

I can see why people hoarding lots of bitcoins do not want to check the exact status of what they own. If, for example, bitcoins are deemed worthless by a US judge, those persons have a lot to lose if they are not able to sell their "fortune" before the panic starts. This is precisely why even people who lost a lot of money with pirateat40 still haven't sued him.

However, small bitcoin owners and newcomers have a real interest in having the status of bitcoins tested and clarified before they buy more bitcoins. But since those people also have lost nothing or not much in the various scams, because they had less to invest to begin with, they are unlikely to press charges.

Having the status of bitcoins clarified in a major country could seal the destiny, good or bad, of bitcoin as a currency. However, it looks like people with large bitcoin wallets are not confident enough that the outcome would be pleasant

[Gabi]

Interesting, after the megacorporations, the private military companies. International companies, not bound by the limits of nations and governments

This quote finally becomes true:

And when at last it is time for the transition from megacorporation to
planetary government, from entrepreneur to emperor, it is then that the
true genius of our strategy shall become apparent, for energy is the
lifeblood of this society and when the chips are down he who controls
the energy supply controls Planet. In former times the energy monopoly
was called "The Power Company"; we intend to give this name an entirely
new meaning.

-- CEO Nwabudike Morgan,
"The Centauri Monopoly"

[casascius]

Citation from the last conference material (http://shadowlife.cc/files/btcotc.pdf (slide #18)):

We should not try to get legality for Bitcoin, we should not ask the state to resolve conflicts in the community.

What should we do then?

If you disagree, consider ignoring it.  When someone comes along and invents decentralized justice, we can be early adopters.  I believe that enforcement of property rights is a legitimate function of government.  If you want a quick example of an environment do-it-yourself justice is the rule, head to your nearest blighted gang-infested neighborhood - one where the police don't go unless they absolutely have to.

I think there will be some judges who, once they understand Bitcoin, think it is a great idea in the best interest of civilization, and might not punish litigants for using it as though its use is a prima facie attempt to launder money or establish some sort of anarchy.  I don't believe in their mind that they all desire the expansion of government and its tyrannical control of the citizens nor do they use their discretion in conscious support of it.  They are just another kind of person doing their job.

[kangasbros]

The speaker's point was that the state, once it becomes aware of Bitcoin, will tend to resolve conflicts in its own interest rather than in the community's interest.

This is BTW very common misconception in the libertarian discussions I have spotted: that state has its "own interests". State consists of many different organizations and parts, which also consists of humans, which have their own interests. State is not a single-interest/single-mission organization.

I will prove this by getting state funding for my bitcoin startup

[Come-from-Beyond]

I expected to get an almost complete plan. But I see only vague speculations. 

[justusranvier]

What should we do then?

Develop as many trust-free services as possible so that disputes don't arise in the first place.

[tvbcof]

Citation from the last conference material (http://shadowlife.cc/files/btcotc.pdf (slide #18)):

We should not try to get legality for Bitcoin, we should not ask the state to resolve conflicts in the community.

What should we do then?

Distributed peer reviewed arbitration with evidence material made public and arbitrators anonymity jealously guarded.  All participants in the community are potential arbitrators in the same manner as jurors (in the US) and a ratings system similar to e-bay's allows perspective counter-parties the ability to assess the counter's history, ratings, judgments, etc to choose whether to undertake a transaction or not.

Although I believe it to be completely my own I claim no rights to the idea.  But it's near the top of my list for ideas to develop if/when I feel in the mood.

[jimbobway]

Private Military Company

<Jaw drops>

[marcus_of_augustus]

Anybody want to point to a particular statute, in any Western country, that demonstrates open source software that can transfer and store random numbers securely is illegal?

Bitcoin is NOT illegal ... and I'll be very surprised if any legislature anywhere can come up with a statute that can make bitcoin illegal without destroying the common law framework civilised, liberal, property-right respecting societies are founded upon.

[Gabi]

the common law framework civilised, liberal, property-right respecting societies are founded upon.

Lol

[Come-from-Beyond]

Anybody want to point to a particular statute, in any Western country, that demonstrates open source software that can transfer and store random numbers securely is illegal?

Bitcoin is NOT illegal ... and I'll be very surprised if any legislature anywhere can come up with a statute that can make bitcoin illegal without destroying the common law framework civilised, liberal, property-right respecting societies are founded upon.

A lot of trojans and viruses considered to be open-source software (u can get sources) and look like random numbers (polymorphism trick). But u'll be punished if u try to send them to someone else.

U can't pretend that bitcoins r just random numbers. It's like pretending that dollar banknotes r just sheets of paper.

[Gabi]

It's like pretending that dollar banknotes r just sheets of paper.

But they are just sheets of paper, wait for hyperinflation to happens and they will be good for heating