[LOAN] Seeking 100 BTC Loan for Mining Rig

[c4n10]

Patrick Harnett one of this sites more upstanding members and most successful ponzi operators runs a money lending business as a front for his confidence scam, he may lend you it https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61262.0 although I hope you appreciate making an unsecured loan of $1200 to an unemployed stranger in a different country requires the lender to be mentally ill.

Crazy people's BTC spends just as well as anyone else's, LOL...

If he's willing to lend and give me a fair deal, I'll check it out. I know it's hard to trust giving a loan under said circumstances, but I'm willing to give out a lot of personal information and proof of identity to include my address and I know there are plenty of people on this forum who are willing to go to someone's front door to harass them and serve lawsuits on behalf of themselves and others.

I really don't know what else I can do to alleviate a lenders concern.

[Buffer Overflow]

You might be lucky getting a loan, but as you say we are in difficult lending times at the moment. There's plenty of scammers about, and also another odd bunch that are under the illusion they are "helping the community"  by screaming ponzi every 5 minutes. In reality they are making things worse for everybody.  Strange.

[Puppet]

I dont know if LTC mining is really that profitable right now, but soon it will definitely not be. Why? At the latest when asics arrive and BTC reward halves, there will be 10s of 1000s of GPUs looking for some use, and guess what, if only 10% of them start mining LTCs, you can kiss your profitability goodbye.

If buying gpus to mine LTC were a good idea, people would do just that instead  of lending you the money to do it and profit of it.  But its not a good idea though, at this point its a terrible idea.

[Fjordbit]

I'm going to try to explain it again because you seem to be missing what other have been saying: your business plan is seriously flawed and you will not be able to use this rig to mine 100 bitcoins. I just plugged your specifications into my personal calculator and (assuming .11c/kwh), it will take you 36 months at the present difficulty to mine your btc value back. Difficulty is certainly going up.

To a lender, the low profitability faced with likely lower profitability represents a large risk. The fact that you weren't able to work out these profitability issues on your own carries a risk.

Ok, so you say you are going to litecoins instead. Can you show any kind of calculations for profitability for this? I don't know a lot about litecoin, but I plugged the value for a 6950 from here into this and got over 22 months to repay at the current litecoin difficulty and ltc/btc trade price. There is generally a feeling that GPU miners will pour over to litecoin once ASICs arrive. And if they don't then it's because the ltc/btc trade has crashed. More risk.

When you add into this the admission that you have no income, it makes this loan impossible to fund because it is impossible for you to repay it.

On a personal note, I understand the desperation that comes from being unemployed, but this is not the right path and if you were to try to do this, in all likelihood you will end up worse off.

[Chang Hum]

You might be lucky getting a loan, but as you say we are in difficult lending times at the moment. There's plenty of scammers about, and also another odd bunch that are under the illusion they are "helping the community"  by screaming ponzi every 5 minutes. In reality they are making things worse for everybody.  Strange.

Those people would argue it's far stranger the level of support the community lends to ponzi scheme operators! Even Danks bank who openly admits his interest is paid from new depositors gets customers!

[Buffer Overflow]

@Chang Hum: Perhaps I didn't explain properly.

Look, I don't like the scams anymore than you. But the reality is that bitcoin and scams go hand in hand. And that's never going to change. Never! Whatever you, me, micon or his brainwashed followers say is gonna change that.

The bit I find odd is that people don't understand that, and keep fruitlessly banging the old "we are protecting bitcoin" very worn out drum.

[Chang Hum]

@Chang Hum: Perhaps I didn't explain properly.

Look, I don't like the scams anymore than you. But the reality is that bitcoin and scams go hand in hand. And that's never going to change. Never! Whatever you, me, micon or his brainwashed followers say is gonna change that.

The bit I find odd is that people don't understand that, and keep fruitlessly banging the old "we are protecting bitcoin" very worn out drum.

I disagree and you say Micon and his brainwashed followers, the brainwashed people are the guys who believe in all the magical HYIPs! I think if more people banged on that drum less ponzi's could manifest. The thing I find odd about your argument, is it wouldn't be rational in other circumstances i.e. a man running round steeling old ladies handbags but here it's accepted and the people shouting thief are the odds ones!

look at Pirate how many old ladies handbags could you buy with $5 1/2m it's disgusting and I find it odd anyone with a reasonable mind isn't banging on the same drum.

[c4n10]

I'm going to try to explain it again because you seem to be missing what other have been saying: your business plan is seriously flawed and you will not be able to use this rig to mine 100 bitcoins. I just plugged your specifications into my personal calculator and (assuming .11c/kwh), it will take you 36 months at the present difficulty to mine your btc value back. Difficulty is certainly going up.

To a lender, the low profitability faced with likely lower profitability represents a large risk. The fact that you weren't able to work out these profitability issues on your own carries a risk.

Ok, so you say you are going to litecoins instead. Can you show any kind of calculations for profitability for this? I don't know a lot about litecoin, but I plugged the value for a 6950 from here into this and got over 22 months to repay at the current litecoin difficulty and ltc/btc trade price. There is generally a feeling that GPU miners will pour over to litecoin once ASICs arrive. And if they don't then it's because the ltc/btc trade has crashed. More risk.

When you add into this the admission that you have no income, it makes this loan impossible to fund because it is impossible for you to repay it.

On a personal note, I understand the desperation that comes from being unemployed, but this is not the right path and if you were to try to do this, in all likelihood you will end up worse off.

People seem to be thinking that I'm looking to do this as my only source of income. As stated earlier I am going to continue looking for work and I plan for this to be a side source of income.

And when the ASIC's come out I'm sure I will have made enough in mining profit to be able to afford them if they are really worth buying, but I don't want to spend money on something right now that nobody has seen, used or REALLY knows anything about.

You want figures, I gave them to you above. If I was able to set this rig up today I could be mining roughly 20-25 BTC worth of light coins per month mining solo, which I would give 70% (15-18 BTC) to my lender until my loan is paid off with interest.

Keeping the rest of the BTC I earn, IF the ASIC's come out and IF they are determined to be worth buying, jalapenos are only $150 each, I can buy a couple at that point and set it up.

Also, I'm not too concerned about the ltc/btc market crashing, both are on an upward trend in USD value, if selling ltc for btc becomes less profitable, I can just start selling it directly for cash.

I have above average intelligence and with the right resources I am capable of just about anything, I'm positive I can find a way to make profit and maintain profitability as the market changes and when I am back to working it will be even less of a concern for me.

[c4n10]

You might be lucky getting a loan, but as you say we are in difficult lending times at the moment. There's plenty of scammers about, and also another odd bunch that are under the illusion they are "helping the community"  by screaming ponzi every 5 minutes. In reality they are making things worse for everybody.  Strange.

Those people would argue it's far stranger the level of support the community lends to ponzi scheme operators! Even Danks bank who openly admits his interest is paid from new depositors gets customers!

I'm not trying to defend anyone because I haven't been around long enough to know who's scamming or not, but I have to point out that just because you collect money from new depositors does not mean you are operating a Ponzi scheme. It is only a Ponzi scheme if the operator takes off with money in the end, otherwise if everyone is getting what they are supposed to be getting then he is just a middle man for a legitimate lending service.

[Vod]

I have above average intelligence and with the right resources I am capable of just about anything

That describes about 3.5 billion people in the world.

[c4n10]

I have above average intelligence and with the right resources I am capable of just about anything

That describes about 3.5 billion people in the world.

Your point...?

[Fjordbit]

You want figures, I gave them to you above. If I was able to set this rig up today I could be mining roughly 20-25 BTC worth of light coins per month mining solo, which I would give 70% (15-18 BTC) to my lender until my loan is paid off with interest.

Hmmm, okay I see the problem with my math. I only did one card and it should have been 6. Ok, this does have a chance at paying it back. I stand corrected.

There is still lots of risk (namely GPU miners pouring over to litecoin when ASICs and reward half drops, plus ltc/btc exchange crash), but it seems like you are doing your ROIs right.

[c4n10]

You want figures, I gave them to you above. If I was able to set this rig up today I could be mining roughly 20-25 BTC worth of light coins per month mining solo, which I would give 70% (15-18 BTC) to my lender until my loan is paid off with interest.

Hmmm, okay I see the problem with my math. I only did one card and it should have been 6. Ok, this does have a chance at paying it back. I stand corrected.

There is still lots of risk (namely GPU miners pouring over to litecoin when ASICs and reward half drops, plus ltc/btc exchange crash), but it seems like you are doing your ROIs right.

If and when the ASIC's do come out, I would be more than happy to invest my portion of the profits into getting some and BTC mining, but not until after they have been verified in the forums by the rest of the community...

[Puppet]

At this rate I could pay off the loan in about 6 - 7 months.

You have maybe 2 months of profitable LTC mining ahead of you. Perhaps not even that, and its not like I would bet a penny on LTC on exchange rates over that period. I also think you forgot about electricity costs.

Look, Id consider lending you if I thought it was going to help you, but I fear its just going to cause trouble for both of us.

[c4n10]

At this rate I could pay off the loan in about 6 - 7 months.

You have maybe 2 months of profitable LTC mining ahead of you. Perhaps not even that, and its not like I would bet a penny on LTC on exchange rates over that period. I also think you forgot about electricity costs.

Look, Id consider lending you if I thought it was going to help you, but I fear its just going to cause trouble for both of us.

The difficulty level for LTC is still a LONG way from reaching the difficulty level that BTC is at, all the people mining BTC are upgrading to ASIC's so that they can continue to mine BTC, so I really don't think it's going to be a problem even when the ASIC's come out. Either way since I will be finding employment my mining rig won't be what makes or breaks me surviving and paying off the loan...

2 months of profitable mining at the numbers above is still 40 - 50 BTC those first two months, which 28 - 35 of those BTC will be returned to the lender putting a nice big dent in my loan debt. It also leaves me 12 - 22 BTC for myself which I can then turn around and order my first jalapeno, maybe even two because I believe it's safe to assume (and current BTC market trends will agree here) that the value of BTC will only increase as the difficulty to mine BTC increases and the rewards for doing so decrease.

I believe it is also safe to assume that LTC will follow the same trend as BTC and continue trending upward as it's difficulty level also increases.

Also, I haven't forgotten about electricity costs, they are just irrelevant to me since I don't pay a power bill...

[smracer]

Also, I haven't forgotten about electricity costs, they are just irrelevant to me since I don't pay a power bill...

LOL.  Each 5XGPU miner will add about $100/mo to your power bill.  Will the payer of the bill care if it goes up by $100/mo?  What will you do about the heat?

[c4n10]

Also, I haven't forgotten about electricity costs, they are just irrelevant to me since I don't pay a power bill...

LOL.  Each 5XGPU miner will add about $100/mo to your power bill. Will the payer of the bill care if it goes up by $100/mo?  What will you do about the heat?

No, the payor will not care.

I have a room that I am specifically dedicating to my mining rigs, this room is air conditioned by central A/C and will be vented in a similar fashion to the venting system seen here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=56305.0

[Puppet]

The difficulty level for LTC is still a LONG way from reaching the difficulty level that BTC is at, all the people mining BTC are upgrading to ASIC's so that they can continue to mine BTC, so I really don't think it's going to be a problem even when the ASIC's come out.

I think you are very wrong on this. Here is what happens when just one bitcoin miner switches to litecoin:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112540.0

He had around 0.05% of the bitcoin network and now he has 5% of litecoin. Imagine what will happen if just 10% of bitcoin miners switch to litecoin.

[Vod]

He had around 0.05% of the bitcoin network and now he has 5% of litecoin. Imagine what will happen if just 10% of bitcoin miners switch to litecoin.

1000% of litecoin network?   500 coins per block?  wow! 

[c4n10]

The difficulty level for LTC is still a LONG way from reaching the difficulty level that BTC is at, all the people mining BTC are upgrading to ASIC's so that they can continue to mine BTC, so I really don't think it's going to be a problem even when the ASIC's come out.

I think you are very wrong on this. Here is what happens when just one bitcoin miner switches to litecoin:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112540.0

He had around 0.05% of the bitcoin network and now he has 5% of litecoin. Imagine what will happen if just 10% of bitcoin miners switch to litecoin.

And when those miners make that move anyone mining LTC for less than 1 MH/s (which these low hashrate users make up about 70% - 90% of ANY given pool) is likely to move on to something else as LTC becomes less profitable which will balance the influx of large hashrates. Within a week or two I expect that the LTC network will stabilize and it will be like nothing ever happened.

If and when LTC becomes less profitable I will reinvest into the best mining tech available at that time and move my existing rig to mining BTC/NMC/PPC and/or whatever else is the most profitable choice for my setup at the time.

We can speculate all day on what we THINK will happen as the ASIC's come out and the difficulty rises and the BTC rewards are halved, but we can't know jack until it actually happens. What I do know is that market trends are in my favor and I am more than capable of turning a profit with access to the right equipment.