Today it is Greece. Tomorrow it can be you.

[turvarya]

Sorry, but what a BS. Nothing worked in Greece, before and after they joined the EU. They had problems long before they joined the EU, they were just hiding them better. Seriously, they don't have any economy besides some tourism. How is that supposed to work?
And no, I don't want to defend the Banks, but saying you can't blame the Greek people at all, is just a big pile of bullshit.

What is the BS? They have so much more than just the tourism, they have export. It is not a big economy, it is a small part of the whole EU, they did not bring much, they did not need much, they had enough to go arround in Greece itself, but when up with the big boys and their bubble economies it all tumbled down, there is no BS in that.

I have no idea, where you get your information from.
When Greece joined the Eurozone, they cooked their books. I thought that is common knowledge. Here some random news article about that:
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/united-kingdom/eu-knew-greece-cooked-its-books-when-it-joined-eurozone-243927.html

They did not have a healthy economy. I have no idea, why you are denying that.

[neoneros]

So who is to blame? I did not say their economy was top notch, it was as bad as my personal finance, but I am doing fine, so did Greece. The fact they had to do some fiddling with their bookkeeping to statisfy the EU commission and the banks has never been a secret, everybody knew at the time and everybody knew how bad it really was, nobody cared and accepted it, nobody checked the books. The banks have made big profits out of it and got away with a big bonus paid by the EU tax payers.

They cooked their books and everybody stood by and let it happen, laughed when they shaked hands on joining in with the big sharks, now they are shred to pieces and if not enough they get pissed all over by the same sharks and a big propaganda machine is at work to blame the greek people, turning away the blame from the real culprits which are the big banks and companies that have profited from the fall and bankrupcy of a whole country.

[turvarya]

So who is to blame? I did not say their economy was top notch, it was as bad as my personal finance, but I am doing fine, so did Greece. The fact they had to do some fiddling with their bookkeeping to statisfy the EU commission and the banks has never been a secret, everybody knew at the time and everybody knew how bad it really was, nobody cared and accepted it, nobody checked the books. The banks have made big profits out of it and got away with a big bonus paid by the EU tax payers.

They cooked their books and everybody stood by and let it happen, laughed when they shaked hands on joining in with the big sharks, now they are shred to pieces and if not enough they get pissed all over by the same sharks and a big propaganda machine is at work to blame the greek people, turning away the blame from the real culprits which are the big banks and companies that have profited from the fall and bankrupcy of a whole country.

Everybody involved is to blame, not just the banks and that also include the people, who were just happily evading taxes, not caring, what will happen in the near future. Saying, it is not my fault, banks/politicians are bad and than acting to make it worse, because I can't do anything about it anyways, doesn't release me from any responsibility.
What makes me angry the most, is that the ones, who it will/has hit the hardest(the younger generation) are not the same as the ones(the older generation) who benefited for a short time from driving it down the cliff.
And that's also, why I am saying, that they were not doing fine, before joining the EU, they were just postponing their problems(like most countries do). It would have hit the younger generation, also without the EU, maybe not that hard, but it would have hurt.

[deon]

I have heard that people aren't allowed to get to their safety deposit boxes. 

The US is going down the same path.  Preparing us to get ripped off by having the cops rob from people that are carrying "too much cash".  If there is a run on banks in the US, I can imaging the cops pulling people over down the street and asking "son, what do have all this cash for?".

[GreenStox]

No wonder they not pass legislation all around europe ,that starts to ban cash, you can only pay now with credit/debit cards.

So all pensions, salaries, subsidies, or any other form of income will go to your bank not your hand.

And the banks will start imposing -1% interest rates, so say goodbye to your money.

[Lauda]

I'm thinking that this shouldn't be a discussion of who we are going to blame for Greece. As I've recently stated in a thread, a lot of countries went bankrupt in the last 50-60 years (making an average more than 1 country per year). I guess we could be looking for people on a individual basis, but everyone is to blame. People who elect, people who rule, people who ignore, who evade taxes and such.
However, this is just the result of the Banking Oligarchy and their control. This is why we need Bitcoin, and I still do not understand how people do not recognize the benefit of Bitcoin.

I have read somewhere that the cut might be 30 percent for everyone who has over 8,000 euros. This is a lot of hard earned money that is going to vanish. Without Bitcoin you don't really control your assets. The Banking Oligarchy does.

Update:

-snip-

Stop twisting my words. Your statement is not even related to mine. I never said such a thing.

[turvarya]

I'm thinking that this shouldn't be a discussion of who we are going to blame for Greece. As I've recently stated in a thread, a lot of countries went bankrupt in the last 50-60 years (making an average more than 1 country per year). I guess we could be looking for people on a individual basis, but everyone is to blame. People who elect, people who rule, people who ignore, who evade taxes and such.
However, this is just the result of the Banking Oligarchy and their control. This is why we need Bitcoin, and I still do not understand how people do not recognize the benefit of Bitcoin.

I have read somewhere that the cut might be 30 percent for everyone who has over 8,000 euros. This is a lot of hard earned money that is going to vanish. Without Bitcoin you don't really control your assets. The Banking Oligarchy does.

That's just the kind of simple minded statement I really hate. The world doesn't become a happy place, just because people use Bitcoin.
In this case: Greece doesn't get a working economy, just because they use Bitcoin.

[HeroCat]

Just think - you are living in Greece in small island, there are exactly 50 people and two shops in this island. How can you spend your BTC there ? Even post is delivered may be two times a week 

[aso118]

No wonder they not pass legislation all around europe ,that starts to ban cash, you can only pay now with credit/debit cards.

So all pensions, salaries, subsidies, or any other form of income will go to your bank not your hand.

And the banks will start imposing -1% interest rates, so say goodbye to your money.

People who have borrowed tend to benefit.
The government implicitly rips off people who save and rewards those in debt, through low interest rates.
It is not sufficient that they levy taxes on common people.

[newIndia]

No wonder they not pass legislation all around europe ,that starts to ban cash, you can only pay now with credit/debit cards.

So all pensions, salaries, subsidies, or any other form of income will go to your bank not your hand.

And the banks will start imposing -1% interest rates, so say goodbye to your money.

People who have borrowed tend to benefit.
The government implicitly rips off people who save and rewards those in debt, through low interest rates.
It is not sufficient that they levy taxes on common people.

If any currency is borrowed, defaulted and the defaulter keeps on getting bail out, it only gives rise to infaltion of that currency...

[oblivi]

So who is to blame? I did not say their economy was top notch, it was as bad as my personal finance, but I am doing fine, so did Greece. The fact they had to do some fiddling with their bookkeeping to statisfy the EU commission and the banks has never been a secret, everybody knew at the time and everybody knew how bad it really was, nobody cared and accepted it, nobody checked the books. The banks have made big profits out of it and got away with a big bonus paid by the EU tax payers.

They cooked their books and everybody stood by and let it happen, laughed when they shaked hands on joining in with the big sharks, now they are shred to pieces and if not enough they get pissed all over by the same sharks and a big propaganda machine is at work to blame the greek people, turning away the blame from the real culprits which are the big banks and companies that have profited from the fall and bankrupcy of a whole country.

The governments that Greece has had in the past, both left and right, have been corrupt and have been hiding each others bad-for-press figures, they are the ones that ruined the country, and now Europe wants the current government and the people which have done nothing wrong to pay for it. Yes, you vote to politicians, but you never know they are corrupt or not, you just hope for the best.

[NewLiberty]

What happens if the Greek State dissolves...  There is no one from which to collect any of this debt.
Similar to the USSR breakup, only in this case, what remains would be Greek City-States, like it used to be so long ago.

In this result, the ECB loses their "investment", and perhaps at least one of the City-States will have no central banker?

[SpanishSoldier]

The EU just told Greece Give us €50 Billion of real assets, Islands, monuments, etc. And we will give Euros...

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/13/athens-and-eurozone-agree-bailout-deal-for-greece

[leopard2]

I have massive doubts that a population that gets itself in such a situation (either by being corrupt themselves, or voting for a government that is), can manage Bitcoins. Bitcoins require a minimum intelligence for usage and protection against theft.

 

[NewLiberty]

I have massive doubts that a population that gets itself in such a situation (either by being corrupt themselves, or voting for a government that is), can manage Bitcoins. Bitcoins require a minimum intelligence for usage and protection against theft.

 

The US government has even more debt (as do many countries).  Does this mean that the US population is more corrupt than Greece?

[Lauda]

The EU just told Greece Give us €50 Billion of real assets, Islands, monuments, etc. And we will give Euros...

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/13/athens-and-eurozone-agree-bailout-deal-for-greece

Interesting, as someone actually told me like a week or two earlier that Eurozone is going to take some islands and whatnot. This could have been expected to some degree.
This is actually what their plan is all along. How could the Greeks agree to something like this?

[Amph]

I have massive doubts that a population that gets itself in such a situation (either by being corrupt themselves, or voting for a government that is), can manage Bitcoins. Bitcoins require a minimum intelligence for usage and protection against theft.

 

the point of bitcoin, is that you don't need an autorithy that will manage it, i mean it's not citizens fault if greece is what it is right now, and if they choose bitcoin, they will basically get rid of their guilty entity which is their government.

when you have a central autorithy if they screw something everyone will suffer with bitcoin, each person is responsible for itself

[Hopalong]

I have massive doubts that a population that gets itself in such a situation (either by being corrupt themselves, or voting for a government that is), can manage Bitcoins. Bitcoins require a minimum intelligence for usage and protection against theft.

 

the point of bitcoin, is that you don't need an autorithy that will manage it, i mean it's not citizens fault if greece is what it is right now, and if they choose bitcoin, they will basically get rid of their guilty entity which is their government.

when you have a central autorithy if they srew something everyone will suffer with bitcocin, each person is responsible for itself

I would love to see this communist paradise where the people has controll of the economy and is contributing to a common good. Greek has a lot of old style communists so the basis are there...

As we know from history all the other communist experiments has been a paradise for the people. All the communist states are run by the people and nowhere has an elite group taken the power for themself...

[GreenStox]

I have massive doubts that a population that gets itself in such a situation (either by being corrupt themselves, or voting for a government that is), can manage Bitcoins. Bitcoins require a minimum intelligence for usage and protection against theft.

 

the point of bitcoin, is that you don't need an autorithy that will manage it, i mean it's not citizens fault if greece is what it is right now, and if they choose bitcoin, they will basically get rid of their guilty entity which is their government.

when you have a central autorithy if they srew something everyone will suffer with bitcocin, each person is responsible for itself

I would love to see this communist paradise where the people has controll of the economy and is contributing to a common good. Greek has a lot of old style communists so the basis are there...

As we know from history all the other communist experiments has been a paradise for the people. All the communist states are run by the people and nowhere has an elite group taken the power for themself...

OMG are you that naive or you are troll?

All communists countries were ruled by an elite 10-20 people on the top of the party. They were all tyranical dictatorships where dissidents were murdered and sent to forced labour camps.

If that is your "paradise" then go get it, i dont want to be part of it.

[Hopalong]

I have massive doubts that a population that gets itself in such a situation (either by being corrupt themselves, or voting for a government that is), can manage Bitcoins. Bitcoins require a minimum intelligence for usage and protection against theft.

 

the point of bitcoin, is that you don't need an autorithy that will manage it, i mean it's not citizens fault if greece is what it is right now, and if they choose bitcoin, they will basically get rid of their guilty entity which is their government.

when you have a central autorithy if they srew something everyone will suffer with bitcocin, each person is responsible for itself

I would love to see this communist paradise where the people has controll of the economy and is contributing to a common good. Greek has a lot of old style communists so the basis are there...

As we know from history all the other communist experiments has been a paradise for the people. All the communist states are run by the people and nowhere has an elite group taken the power for themself...

OMG are you that naive or you are troll?

All communists countries were ruled by an elite 10-20 people on the top of the party. They were all tyranical dictatorships where dissidents were murdered and sent to forced labour camps.

If that is your "paradise" then go get it, i dont want to be part of it.

And you are to stupid to see the irony? All the communist movements sounded like those on this forum who think everything will be so nice in the future of bitcoin where noone pays tax and everything is run by donations. History shows something completely different.

I am old enough to remember communist movements and have heard all the arguments about banks and capitalism before.