"Stress Tests", Spammers, Attacks: Burning My Butt. Very Bad.

[dothebeats]

Just made another transaction, and so far it's getting better and better on my end, at least. Only took 30 minutes to have 3 confirmations.
https://blockchain.info/tx/8807f0e2d48116daa661fa76b55fa852ff4277df6979d9dfd51fb6841f8e54f5

[tuvok007]

any one knows when is the next stress test going to be ? i would like to be ready before sending out any transactions with manual fees last time i was stuck for like 6 hours with no confirmations.

Only 6 hours? Hahaha dude, i am waiting for more than 48 hours now and still not even one confirmation, WTF  

uhh, did you pay some TX fee? can you please post here TX of transaction? this seems very unlikely to me tbh. during last test, I tried by myself to sent 0.1BTC with 0 tx fee and it was done in 15 hours..

https://blockchain.info/address/1BnvHarta94JvXrY7oT272qTBEvgMdRk2S    Here it is, 49 hours and counting,the fee was 1114 satoshis. I dont know should i laugh or cry hahaha

your tx fee is very very low... this could take some time. even without an attack

I know and i regret now. Is it possible to undo things? to send somehow a bigger fee for that transaction? sorry if it is a stupid question but I am desperate.

[dothebeats]

any one knows when is the next stress test going to be ? i would like to be ready before sending out any transactions with manual fees last time i was stuck for like 6 hours with no confirmations.

Only 6 hours? Hahaha dude, i am waiting for more than 48 hours now and still not even one confirmation, WTF  

uhh, did you pay some TX fee? can you please post here TX of transaction? this seems very unlikely to me tbh. during last test, I tried by myself to sent 0.1BTC with 0 tx fee and it was done in 15 hours..

https://blockchain.info/address/1BnvHarta94JvXrY7oT272qTBEvgMdRk2S    Here it is, 49 hours and counting,the fee was 1114 satoshis. I dont know should i laugh or cry hahaha

your tx fee is very very low... this could take some time. even without an attack

I know and i regret now. Is it possible to undo things? to send somehow a bigger fee for that transaction? sorry if it is a stupid question but I am desperate.

Nope. Bitcoin transactions are irreversible just so you know. You have to wait for days or possibly weeks for that to confirm. In some cases, it takes a couple of weeks before a transaction is confirmed, especially if the sender put no fees for it.

[SISAR]

I thought most people here support BTC rather than altcoin? So now people are suggesting to ignore micropayment and ask them to shift into altcoin instead? lol

That is beside my point but in any case if you support just Bitcoin you are not really smart, like people supporting just gold or silver or Facebook stock or whatever other single-point-of-failure stuff.

If BTC were to fall to dirt cheap some day, it means people are losing faith with cryptocurrency and there is no denying that the other cryptocurrency will follow the same path as well. The altcoins are merely nothing without BTC anyway

Wrong. There is not a single older tech that has not been replaced by advanced and better tech. For example, Netscape Navigator to MS IE to Firefox to now Chrome, with Internet web-browsers.

Right now you can start using altcoins as a way to move BTC from exchange to exchange faster than using Bitcoin network or you can continue bitching and whinning here all you want, your choice.

Nothing more to add to this debate.

[sturle]

your tx fee is very very low... this could take some time. even without an attack

I know and i regret now. Is it possible to undo things? to send somehow a bigger fee for that transaction? sorry if it is a stupid question but I am desperate.

Yes.  Two ways:
1. You can either create a new transaction using the same inputs and a higher fee, hoping for this double spend to confirm.
2. Spend the change output with a high fee, and hope for a pool practicing child-pays-for-parent to pick up both and confirm them.  Eligius, EclipseMC and possibly others do this.

Method 2 has a higher probability of success, as the double spend will have problems getting relayed to the miners.

[dothebeats]

your tx fee is very very low... this could take some time. even without an attack

I know and i regret now. Is it possible to undo things? to send somehow a bigger fee for that transaction? sorry if it is a stupid question but I am desperate.

Yes.  Two ways:
1. You can either create a new transaction using the same inputs and a higher fee, hoping for this double spend to confirm.
2. Spend the change output with a high fee, and hope for a pool practicing child-pays-for-parent to pick up both and confirm them.  Eligius, EclipseMC and possibly others do this.

Method 2 has a higher probability of success, as the double spend will have problems getting relayed to the miners.

Never knew that this is possible until I read it today. However I have a question, what if I have created two transactions, one with fees and one without fees? I send 1 btc to the same address two times but with only different fees. Is it possible that the two tx be confirmed at the same time if I only have 1btc?

[sturle]

Never knew that this is possible until I read it today. However I have a question, what if I have created two transactions, one with fees and one without fees? I send 1 btc to the same address two times but with only different fees. Is it possible that the two tx be confirmed at the same time if I only have 1btc?

No, only one can be confirmed, and the other will become invalid at the same time.

[dothebeats]

Never knew that this is possible until I read it today. However I have a question, what if I have created two transactions, one with fees and one without fees? I send 1 btc to the same address two times but with only different fees. Is it possible that the two tx be confirmed at the same time if I only have 1btc?

No, only one can be confirmed, and the other will become invalid at the same time.

Even if they get confirmed at the exact same time? Which transaction will be flagged as invalid by the network? The one with the fees or the one without fees?

[sturle]

Even if they get confirmed at the exact same time? Which transaction will be flagged as invalid by the network? The one with the fees or the one without fees?

It is not possible.  If they confirm in the same block, the block is invalid and will be discarded by all full nodes.

[dothebeats]

Even if they get confirmed at the exact same time? Which transaction will be flagged as invalid by the network? The one with the fees or the one without fees?

It is not possible.  If they confirm in the same block, the block is invalid and will be discarded by all full nodes.

Oh now I get it. It would only be accepted by the nodes if I have sufficient balance to cover for the two transactions.

Ninja edit*

[Xialla]

your tx fee is very very low... this could take some time. even without an attack

you are right. in other hand, if projected value per btc is in thousands of dollars per coin, it is not so low, how it may looks like. another point is, that far small TX is higher fee just killing. believe me, that average Joe hates waiting and hates fees. and once he will decide to buy a coffee with his fancy smartphone, will be faster and comfortable and cheaper (for free) to use fiat (and some XYZPay implementation) over fiat..

maybe is possible to scale fees depends on how much you are sending or something..

[favdesu]

any one knows when is the next stress test going to be ? i would like to be ready before sending out any transactions with manual fees last time i was stuck for like 6 hours with no confirmations.

Only 6 hours? Hahaha dude, i am waiting for more than 48 hours now and still not even one confirmation, WTF  

uhh, did you pay some TX fee? can you please post here TX of transaction? this seems very unlikely to me tbh. during last test, I tried by myself to sent 0.1BTC with 0 tx fee and it was done in 15 hours..

https://blockchain.info/address/1BnvHarta94JvXrY7oT272qTBEvgMdRk2S    Here it is, 49 hours and counting,the fee was 1114 satoshis. I dont know should i laugh or cry hahaha

your tx fee is very very low... this could take some time. even without an attack

I know and i regret now. Is it possible to undo things? to send somehow a bigger fee for that transaction? sorry if it is a stupid question but I am desperate.

Nope. Bitcoin transactions are irreversible just so you know. You have to wait for days or possibly weeks for that to confirm. In some cases, it takes a couple of weeks before a transaction is confirmed, especially if the sender put no fees for it.

in theory, he could just double spend it with a higher fee. if it goes through the other one will be invalid

[turvarya]

any one knows when is the next stress test going to be ? i would like to be ready before sending out any transactions with manual fees last time i was stuck for like 6 hours with no confirmations.

Only 6 hours? Hahaha dude, i am waiting for more than 48 hours now and still not even one confirmation, WTF  

uhh, did you pay some TX fee? can you please post here TX of transaction? this seems very unlikely to me tbh. during last test, I tried by myself to sent 0.1BTC with 0 tx fee and it was done in 15 hours..

https://blockchain.info/address/1BnvHarta94JvXrY7oT272qTBEvgMdRk2S    Here it is, 49 hours and counting,the fee was 1114 satoshis. I dont know should i laugh or cry hahaha

your tx fee is very very low... this could take some time. even without an attack

I know and i regret now. Is it possible to undo things? to send somehow a bigger fee for that transaction? sorry if it is a stupid question but I am desperate.

Nope. Bitcoin transactions are irreversible just so you know. You have to wait for days or possibly weeks for that to confirm. In some cases, it takes a couple of weeks before a transaction is confirmed, especially if the sender put no fees for it.

in theory, he could just double spend it with a higher fee. if it goes through the other one will be invalid

You can't double spend it, since a node that has the "old" transaction already in their mempool doesn't accept the "new" transaction.
That is to prevent double spends.

[RoadTrain]

You can't double spend it, since a node that has the "old" transaction already in their mempool doesn't accept the "new" transaction.
That is to prevent double spends.

F2Pool has recently enabled 'replace-by-fee' feature, which allows you to 'double-spend' unconfirmed txs by adding higher fee.
Though most nodes would refuse to accept to mempool and relay a replacement tx until they have this feature enabled (which may happen in the future).

[slacknation]

You can't double spend it, since a node that has the "old" transaction already in their mempool doesn't accept the "new" transaction.
That is to prevent double spends.

F2Pool has recently enabled 'replace-by-fee' feature, which allows you to 'double-spend' unconfirmed txs by adding higher fee.
Though most nodes would refuse to accept to mempool and relay a replacement tx until they have this feature enabled (which may happen in the future).

they have changed to First-seen-safe replace-by-fee [FSS RBF]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3aejmu/f2pool_we_recognize_the_problem_we_will_switch_to/

[slacknation]

...

Following up on Xialla's experience, I sent a small amount as a test (roughly 0.005 BTC) with a fairly large fee (BTC 0.0006) to see how long it would take at about 10:30 PM US ET on July 6.

Confirmed by the next block.  And second confirmation by the next one after that.

For me, getting a "real payment" (say, over $1.00) confirmed, even at a higher amount of fee (and I would think that a BTC 0.0002 would be reasonable), is much important than being able to send out $0.20 for free......


But, hey, that's just me.



(Edited for correct amount sent and date, doh!)

there is a lot of confusion as bitcoin had been known famously for free transactions

[monsanto]

I thought most people here support BTC rather than altcoin? So now people are suggesting to ignore micropayment and ask them to shift into altcoin instead? lol

That is beside my point but in any case if you support just Bitcoin you are not really smart, like people supporting just gold or silver or Facebook stock or whatever other single-point-of-failure stuff.

If BTC were to fall to dirt cheap some day, it means people are losing faith with cryptocurrency and there is no denying that the other cryptocurrency will follow the same path as well. The altcoins are merely nothing without BTC anyway

Wrong. There is not a single older tech that has not been replaced by advanced and better tech. For example, Netscape Navigator to MS IE to Firefox to now Chrome, with Internet web-browsers.

Right now you can start using altcoins as a way to move BTC from exchange to exchange faster than using Bitcoin network or you can continue bitching and whinning here all you want, your choice.

Nothing more to add to this debate.

I agree, I think bitcoin will be surpassed by another cryptocurrency, the only question is when.  If there can be consensus on certain decisions and changes can be implemented the time until that happens can be extended, and might be a long time away.  If not, it will happen sooner.  Either way, network effect or not, there are some things that will be just easier to implement in a new system rather than trying to come to a consensus in order to change an already existing decentralized system.

[sturle]

A normal (1 input - 1 output - regardless of the amount of BTC send) tx is about 0.6kb --> min 0.0003 BTC in tx fee

Wrong.  A typical 1 input - 1 output tx is 192 bytes.  A more typical 1-2 or 2-1 is about 226 bytes.  (Compressed keys, not multisig.)  0.0001 BTC fee is fine for both.  High priority transactions will still confirm with no fees.

[favdesu]

A normal (1 input - 1 output - regardless of the amount of BTC send) tx is about 0.6kb --> min 0.0003 BTC in tx fee

Wrong.  A typical 1 input - 1 output tx is 192 bytes.  A more typical 1-2 or 2-1 is about 226 bytes.  (Compressed keys, not multisig.)  0.0001 BTC fee is fine for both.  High priority transactions will still confirm with no fees.

I stand corrected.  

Still. Enjoy waiting 18hours for your transaction with 0.0001 BTC fee to get confirmed in the current conditions!  The going rate at the moment is much higher.

indeed. it's better to set a higher tx fee for as long as this attack goes. even $0.20 in fees is nothing compared to other payment processors

[sturle]

A normal (1 input - 1 output - regardless of the amount of BTC send) tx is about 0.6kb --> min 0.0003 BTC in tx fee

Wrong.  A typical 1 input - 1 output tx is 192 bytes.  A more typical 1-2 or 2-1 is about 226 bytes.  (Compressed keys, not multisig.)  0.0001 BTC fee is fine for both.  High priority transactions will still confirm with no fees.

I stand corrected.  

Still. Enjoy waiting 18hours for your transaction with 0.0001 BTC fee to get confirmed in the current conditions!  The going rate at the moment is much higher.

It won't take that long.  Some pools, e.g. Eligius, filters the spam.  Some other pools, e.g. BitMinter, has set blockprioritysize to 500KB, half the block, to let high priority non-spammy transactions through regardless of fee.  If only people could stop mining on the China pools, and move over to the more bitcoin friendly pools.