provably fair is new industry standard?

[Jerry Walker]

This is the future of betting online. Players should be demanding more transparency from their casinos

So reading this made me think - how soon there will be no online casinos/gambling which won't be using it. And if not all of them will switch to provably fair, would there be any demand for them?

Also, can we actually trust all these casinos which claim they are 'provably fair' - while there can be something more?

[Somekindabitcoin]

Well, it's basically just called edge. More edge means less fairness.

At this point, they'll lure you in with provably fair because that's what's trending at the moment (and apparently it's probably making them stacks of bitcoin).

It will be a new standard, but if someone comes up with a much more clever scheme, it will disappear.

[ComboChris]

This is the future of betting online. Players should be demanding more transparency from their casinos

So reading this made me think - how soon there will be no online casinos/gambling which won't be using it. And if not all of them will switch to provably fair, would there be any demand for them?

Also, can we actually trust all these casinos which claim they are 'provably fair' - while there can be something more?

Most online casinos will not have a provably fair system untill casino games sellers like softswiss make their games provably fair.
As for the trust: provably fair just means that you can mathematically prove that you weren't cheated on the outcome of the bet. An untrusted site could still just not pay you out.

[sherbyspark]

Its fairly debated. Obviously online casinos benefit from having a provably fair game as the players are able to verify the bets. Its hard to answer the trust question. I know Stars runs casino software in certain countries , but not sure if its provably fair. I wouldn't trust them if they are not provably fair, no matter how big the casino.

[srgkrgkj]

Yep most players would look for the provable fair feature the first time they visit a casino so not having it is a instant turn off so I guess it was always the industry standard...

[Altcoin4life]

This is the future of betting online. Players should be demanding more transparency from their casinos

So reading this made me think - how soon there will be no online casinos/gambling which won't be using it. And if not all of them will switch to provably fair, would there be any demand for them?

Also, can we actually trust all these casinos which claim they are 'provably fair' - while there can be something more?

Ask yourself this question, would you rather have the ability to verify your bets aren't tampered or not? if not then keep using all those unfair sites. If yes then provably fair allows transparency.

[tsoPANos]

Note how some btc casinos out there are not provably fair although they claim to be.
Some provably fair systems can be bypassed by the casino to alter the bets.
It's impossible to tell if they do it.

[srgkrgkj]

There are always se casinos who have a provably fair system which isn't water tight but it should be easy to tell when a casino cheats as even operators make mistakes and that's how many get caught they think they're one step ahead but when they bypass they leave a footprint too ...

[waterpile]

Well, it's basically just called edge. More edge means less fairness.

At this point, they'll lure you in with provably fair because that's what's trending at the moment (and apparently it's probably making them stacks of bitcoin).

It will be a new standard, but if someone comes up with a much more clever scheme, it will disappear.

Is it only me that noticed that this guy doesn't know what is provably fair system is? What edge is he talking about, less fairness? Wasn't provably system designed to show fairness?

What scheme are you talking about?

[sherbyspark]

Note how some btc casinos out there are not provably fair although they claim to be.
Some provably fair systems can be bypassed by the casino to alter the bets.
It's impossible to tell if they do it.

Its not impossible to tell if they altered the bets. For example in a game of dice if you have the seed and you change your seed manually, then as long as nonces are fine , there is almost no way for the casino to cheat you .

[fox19891989]

Well, it's basically just called edge. More edge means less fairness.

At this point, they'll lure you in with provably fair because that's what's trending at the moment (and apparently it's probably making them stacks of bitcoin).

It will be a new standard, but if someone comes up with a much more clever scheme, it will disappear.

Is it only me that noticed that this guy doesn't know what is provably fair system is? What edge is he talking about, less fairness? Wasn't provably system designed to show fairness?

What scheme are you talking about?

that guy isn't understanding this IMO, he just wanted add his post account and spam useless posts, cos he talked about off-topic thing, that's why you can understand his ideas.

AFAIK, more edge doesn't mean less fairness, it just means casinos can earn more from us, not about unfair, so if players think the edge is high, they don't play, that's very simple.

[PocketRocketsCasino]

Provably fair means you can prove that a casino did not alter the result of a bet to deliberately make you lose.

It was originally developed by Bitzino IIRC and the industry standard provably fair system used on dice sites (like PRC) was invented by dooglus of Just-Dice.

Any dice site not using this system, there are quite a few, should not be trusted at all.
This system means it is impossible for site operators to alter your bet to make you lose without the chance of them being caught.
Note that this can still happen, look at the old dicebitco.in scam, but this system allowed them to be caught.


There are a lot of people who misunderstand this. Provably fair does not mean that you will win or not lose money.
It does not mean an operator cannot cheat investors if they allow an invest option.
It does not mean that you will definitely be paid your winnings either.

Those are all separate trust issues that you should take into account based on the community, reviews and by observing the sites you wish to play at.

As for FIAT sites using a probably fair system? It doesn't look likely any time soon.

I went to the iGaming conference and met with large operators and game providers and from what I seen there they probably wouldn't want this.

Also it seems 99% (probably more) of players don't care about it, even in our Bitcoin gambling community it seems most don't care and even the ones that do do not understand what it means, how it works or how to verify it.

I would recommend reading this tutorial/help page on what provably fair is and how it works by NlNico http://dicesites.com/provably-fair
But again it's still a bit technical.

[shanem]

Provably fair is the new standard for online gambling.
It is difficult for dice sites or casino to rig the game without getting caught with this provably fair system which is a good thing to players.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Yep, basically if you see a dice site that doesn't advertise & prove itself as 'provably fair' then do not play or invest with it. There are many posters that police the bitcointalk.org gambling subsection any way so it's pretty unavoidable to be unaware of a site that people suspect could be a scam or hiding something etc.

Each dice site has a thread on here so have a look through the posts & check everything is as it seems. My personal favourite place to roll dice is Da Dice, it's provably fair, has great customer support, live online chat with fellow gamblers. The design & graphics are superb. Give it a go - https://dadice.com

[arallmuus]

Yep, basically if you see a dice site that doesn't advertise & prove itself as 'provably fair' then do not play or invest with it.

Most people have zero knowledge about this anyway. They will only care about what it means by "provably fair" and care to check their bet when they lose however they are being lenient with it if they win (sad truth indeed).
As for dont invest in a non provably fair site, why wouldnt you get a profit from it ?  . I believe everyone wanted to have a share on the scam site like 999dice but yeah in the end it depends to your morality though 

[cryptworld]

It's obvious that is a standard because you need some way to trust the site and all the sites must have it implemented to trust them

[AlwaysSunny]

Even for sites that do promote themselves as provably fair, I wonder how often people actually check to see that the results of their game rounds are as they should be. I wouldn't have a clue how to do it, and even if I did, I probably wouldn't bother. I would far sooner just bet with a site that is licensed (there are a few of them around now), and has syndicated games from Microgaming or Betsoft that have their games tested and accredited by independent labs. I don't see provably fair ever being anything more than a gimmick that appeals to a very small minority of players.

[sbankerdemon]

Provably fair is a must in today's casinos based on altcoins. If you want to attract more players and maintain them provably fair helps a lot.

[anderson00673]

These days, most bitcoin & altcoin casinos already using provably fair.
But, casinos still have many tricks to get money from their player such as house edge or games which could make gambler addicted.

House edge isn't a trick, it is how every casino out there is in business, including non-online casinos.  But I agree, I think that at the end of the day you have to find a reputable casino because even the PF system has been gamed.

[Bardman]

Note how some btc casinos out there are not provably fair although they claim to be.
Some provably fair systems can be bypassed by the casino to alter the bets.
It's impossible to tell if they do it.

Its not impossible to tell if they altered the bets. For example in a game of dice if you have the seed and you change your seed manually, then as long as nonces are fine , there is almost no way for the casino to cheat you .

"Theres almost no way" means that there is a way, take a look at 999dice, they were exposed as having a provably fair system that might have not been provably fair but there was no way to prove if they were cheating, however its not that hard to prove or to verify if a casino does indeed use a working provably fair.

In the bitcoin industry its definitely standard to have provably fair system, no one would play at your casino if you dont have one.