Innosilicon official reponse to Bitmine bankruptcy - Let the evidence talk

[opieum2]

Comments by me made in italics in response to emphasis made.

In the end, Bitmine's design was stable, but it took a while to get there as Inno pointed out. AMT wasn't updated on revisions and never received adequate support from the swiss as well, this was due to their own chaos of their business, or the fact that they didn't care becuase AMT had already sent their payments to Bitmine, we're still not sure. After reading this thread, some of claims brought against Inno are valid, and some of them against Bitmine as well. Bitmine did have a problem financing the chip, and inno did cover the other half. Inno was subcontracted by Bitmine, and was supposed to and did deliver a reference board as promised. Expansion on that design led to further problems.

Opieum COMMENT to Bolded: It just seems like more it's not my fault mentality. Clearly Inno warned against certain changes. Whether you were aware of that is irrelevant, you deceived everyone regardless. Lotta people lost money. That still is something you will answer for.

AMT had a contract with the swiss, Bitmine was due to originally deliver fully working populated modules by a specific date.  After the delayed delivery of the chips/or more over the delayed in the allowance of AMT to pick up the modules, both AMT and Bitmine went into different productions because Bitmine made it apparent that there was no way AMT was going to get fully working modules prior to bitmine customers, especially some of the larger ones. With assurance of support and help from Bitmine AMT agreed and contracted IMET, which further botched the job through several errors, ordering the wrong values on various components and ultimately taking advantage of AMT's desperation at the time with the suggestion to quickturn all orders knowing the capacity of production wasn't there. Skimping on vital details set forth in the bom like the amount of copper in the boards, while cutting costs to increase their commission.

Opieum COMMENT to Bolded: Then why the various misleading blog posts on the original AMT site? You clearly stated various things had shipped/arrived and you had sent to clients and such as early as late 2013...this new statement you are making directly contradicts that. FYI already waybacked this page so you don't go editing your damn posts as you historically tend to do when you are called out on your bullshit. You are legally liable for all your words now. Unlike the old mirror site waybacking archive.org is instant AND has a nice legal charter certifying authenticity of original content when this goes to court. I look forward to the day that gets used against you.

While this community has made both AMT and Bitmine out to be something ridiculous, both companies did try to deliver a product. Now, poor business decisions were made, bitmine did procrastinate in building the design which was due to the fact that they wanted a working asic before they designed a board around a proto, or so it seamed. In our opinion, this caused the delay. AMT ended up re-promising other's promises and hoping for the best. Bitmine did have problems with the designs, and Inno did have different grades and versions of both A1 and A2 chips. Which is a normal process in asic production by the way. When you produce a batch of asics, some turn out better than others. Design changes of the asics between versions made things more complicated for the pcb designers though, and yes voltage is one of them.

Opieum COMMENT to Bolded: I think that is reversed. Again laying blame on others for for your actions. BECAUSE you FAILED to deliver a product you were made out to be something ridiculous is the order of events here. And time proved us all right. You blame us but then followed with making poor business decisions and bitmine procrastinating things. Hoping for the best is not a business tactic I have heard of. Check out an episode of shark tank I am sure they will have some nice lols over that.

In the end, AMT dropped bitmines design and went to china and Inno helped AMT with introductions to production facilities and connections in order to deliver miners to those clients that would still accept them at the time. AMT understood both worlds by the end of that fiasco, and worked to develop rackmount miners which were affordable, stable and viable at the time. AMT's 6 or 7 avengers (clients that were either paid or just made it hobby to screw with AMT's staff and online rep) made it nearly impossible to sell the new models with limited staff and no budget. So, AMT gave up. Which ended the same way for Bitmine, broke and out of the luck. The problems which occurred between bitmine and Inno and why they occurred were ridiculous, problems created by paranoia, greed, suspicion, lack of funding and false promises, on all sides. The problems which occurred between AMT and Bitmine were mostly due to disorganization, and both parties living through the same shit storm, and one party putting too much faith in the other. While Bitmine made miners and mines, AMT made miners in china and focused on lawsuit which drained over 70k+ in legal fees alone.


Opieum COMMENT to Bolded:Again placing blame on others and then immediatly acknowledging your own screw ups at the same time. Thats a talent. You blame people and cast suspicion and doubt. But the fact is you screwed up. When you added insult to injury by "compensating" with what by that time was virtually worthless equipment. You gave people the hashpower 1.25Ths (I use that loosley as these machines barley cracked 1Ths on pools). Some of these people paid 6k and up (myself among them) where the selling point BIG selling point you have chosen to OMIT here is the MPP (miner protection program) that would compensate us to a point should we not get hardware in time or it not hash as advertised. These points were VERY clearly stated in the MPP YOU advertised on the site and were the reason you got customers. We all know how that turned out. I will admit the machines were solidly built. HAD they been built earlier on it might have been a massive win. BUT you chose to decieve and constantly played games and stalled. The whole naughty and nice list that had uninterested 3rd parties even witnessing what was said was posted up (check links in my sig and in NotFuzzyWarms sig). Again you owned your fuck ups, but you immediatly blame us for it which makes no sense. You fucked or scammed us or both. Thats why we the community came at you so hard. You promised the world and gave us shit.

Neither Bitmine or Inno acted 100% correctly, but each of them had their reasons as to why they shouldn't. Bitmine procrastinated on the design until the asics and reference board arrived. Inno sold to chinese vendors because they weren't confident in Bitmines ability to pay. Bitmine didn't wan't to pay until they saw a working product.. You get the idea of the argument.

Opieum COMMENT to Bolded: So basically they fucked everyone. Again blame game. Your part here you already made clear. You were the US distributor, but made your own version of the hardware. The reasons were simple. We got fleeced. You get to run those petahash farms you bragged about in Skype (check chat logs for that he states it there)

But again, this business was a mistake from the beginning. It's ruined lives, it put business owners and clients in financial burden, its destroyed reputations and families. When a wife a client doubts her husband because he made the wrong choice to purchase a miner, (from any company by all means),  or when the wife of an owner divorces him right after having their newborn for fear of her child's life and her own due to the types of threats and gestures which have been made. One can say this business destroys lives. But I would guess stocks are no different from the client aspect. Despite good faith practices due to competing parties, it has brought the essence of greed out in everyone involved, investors, clients and manufacturers alike. And almost all have either failed or barely broke even. Like we've said before, the only guy's that really made money were the exchanges.

Opieum COMMENT to Bolded: What the hell are you talking about here? you playing on peoples emotional sympathies here? You ruined alot of people with this. Period, your pity party story doesn't do anything to change that. For the record the stock market only destroys peoples lives when they dont manage their risk. Same with bitcoin. Anyone going into something without managing the risk needs to learn how that works. Going all in just leaves you open to massive loss.

And in the end people still rant and rave on this forum, waiting for the next spurt in bitcoin, getting ready for the next mining manufacturers to trash. While still pissing on those that tried and failed.

Opieum COMMENT to Bolded: And yet Bitmaintech still enjoys some nice profitability because they did A: right by their customers (granted occasional screw ups least they tried fixing) B: ACTUALLY DELIVERED product C: customer service and didnt blame their customers when there was a fuck up. In contrast ALL the failed ones pretty much did the opposite of the 3 points. Tried and failed is accurate. You were "pissed on" due to your incompetence and fact that you absconded with our money and did nothing to try to make it right an issue that is still the case to this day.

Any lawsuit between bitmine and inno wont happen, it's china, no rules apply. So don't waist your time on it. Inno in many ways acted correctly, and Bitmine in many ways acted to the extent of what they felt was justified based on their position, neither acted in a malicious way towards the other in reality, or nothing more than the nature of this business/industry could allow.

The best advise, which has been reiterated on this forum over and over is the following: Don't buy miners, buy Bitcoin.

Opieum COMMENT to Bolded: Not sure if any kind of financial advice from Joshua Zipkin is good. But seeing as he is doing quite well in his bitcoins which blockchain confirms based on previous research (and petahash farms he CLAIMS he has), not sure if taking advice from a crook is good. I would suggest doing your own research. If you have 0 power liability (free power) mining works. Otherwise research it the hell out for your own sake. He is trying to poison the well against the successful manufacturers.

There will be another cycle of this drama soon, hopefully this time it will be more regulated. BTC and all things around it will start up again mid August, escalating (steadily in price) until the beginning of September. You'll see a steady slow rise in BTC, like clockwork. +2% -1% +2% -1% etc. Between the 10th of September and beginning of October, you'll see a jump not too far off from November 2013.  LTC will fluctuate between 4 and 8 until hits $9.50, and then jump to 14 shortly after it hits that price point, and will stay consistent at a 4.5-5% threshold of the value of BTC as it once did before.

Opieum COMMENT to Bolded: What is this the mad money of bitcoin? You think you are cramer? financial advice in light of your "business" decisions, I would advise to all stay away from this. His previous predictions have been shit.


The age of crypto currency is not over, if anything it will be needed more than ever shortly, but to those who mine, sell them, because it'll become more and more regulated over time and profits from transactions will decrease as well as it becomes more monopolized by the PTB. Or keep mining, as long as you have a 100mb connection.

Opieum COMMENT to Bolded: And power cheap power. Again shitty advice. A 3Mbit connection is enough to run a moderatly sized mine. Its the power and cooling thats the issue.

This topic of Inno vs Bitmine, is a useless one. Inno has the upper hand, Bitmine's broke, and their swiss. Plain and simple.

Opieum COMMENT to Bolded: What the hell does being swiss have to do with this? Another racist comment from a racist individual

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[tonyca]

AMT_miner, where is my refund, so rediculous you can not just keep quit, be a man do repsonble for what you caused.  give me the refund.
AMT order #645 and #962, where is my refund?
totally amount is US(645#for $ 5155+#962 for $6089)= US$11244

[Gleb Gamow]

When a wife a client doubts her husband because he made the wrong choice to purchase a miner, (from any company by all means),  or when the wife of an owner divorces him right after having their newborn for fear of her child's life and her own due to the types of threats and gestures which have been made.

And trust josh, he would know threats.

Yep, Josh said that I deserve to die. His words even made the Bitcoin-themed rags.

[Gleb Gamow]

It's good to know that he purposely sent me a miner that wasn't complete even though I paid for it. That should help me win a judgement against him. I have no problem taking a trip to PA.

No one plotted to monitor AMT. Josh was in communication with people of his own free will. Hell he engaged me in conversation. However, when he didn't make good on his end of the purchases those who he was talking too refused to be silent about what he said to them, and surprise some of it was pretty inflammatory.

You don't get to take people's money, deliver faulty or unfinished products, and then flee the country while maintaining the moral high ground. "We did our best", though I'm not sure you were really more than a sole proprietorship, isn't good enough. If a lawsuit with IMET would have paid you enough to refund all your customers then why the hell wouldn't you do that? I hope for the sake of potential customers and your potential worker that you never start up a business again. You obviously don't have the chops to run a company.

So you say, "One day maybe we get our lawsuit with IMET." My question to you is, what if you do and you manage to win? Would you refund the people whose money you took? My guess would be no at this point.

You must think you have the biggest swinginest dick in the world to come in here and talk like this. For fucks sake.

Right, monitoring wasn't part of the plot. We can pull the email from Craig lenell who claims otherwise and post it here if you'd like. You were sent a PSU, just like fuzzy was. And there was no fleeing the country, Josh spent 2 months in china building and shipping miners, making sure it got done. Then went back to Bulgaria for a few months to shut down AMT's outsourced operations there. He also dealt with a divorce and and several other things. "Fleeing the country" is a provocative statement, and made to instigate a reaction. Josh had always lived part time in Bulgaria for the past 6 years due to his former marriage. There was no action of fleeing, he just went home. He ended up getting divorced, loosing his apartment in BG, his wife, and new born kid. You lost 6k? He lost everything.

He's been in Philadelphia since February. The idea that he's fled the country and has a secret mining farm is ridiculous. He's also met with lenell's lawyers in their office face to face on several occasions. AMT's still has the summons and prepared claim, IMET needs to be served and if there is judgement/settlement it will go to repay the clients, so to answer your question, Yes, the idea was to attribute winnings to clients and issue refunds. Reviewing submissions to a public docket doesn't make you an expert on the matter, and listening to a shmuck like Tony Serrata who has is own agenda among other things is ridiculous as well. There is no more AMT, no secret wallets with tons of btc, no one to sue, just a broke guy working as a freelance electrician fixing peoples light switches and home wiring during the day and spending his nights in the bar or on the sofa staring at the bottom of the bottle.

Take what ever money you can afford to gamble with, buy btc and sell between Sept 15-20th. You'll make your 6k back. Or invest in something non-crypto related and open a margin account and long ticker: TZA for the next 2 months, again selling between Sept 15th-20th.
Or sue josh personally, and have his "wages garnished". He'd need to be employed for that one bud. Have you googled his name, if you were an employer would you hire him?

You just got two sure fire ways to make your money back. Use them.

Me so happy to learnt that Josh's wife left him as I so predicted she would.  

Josh, I see you're back to penning in third person. Would you be so kind to tell Joshua Zipkin to let me know what address he's using now in the States so that the police can finally deliver some paperwork to him pertaining to his threats of killing somebody?

[opieum2]

It's good to know that he purposely sent me a miner that wasn't complete even though I paid for it. That should help me win a judgement against him. I have no problem taking a trip to PA.

No one plotted to monitor AMT. Josh was in communication with people of his own free will. Hell he engaged me in conversation. However, when he didn't make good on his end of the purchases those who he was talking too refused to be silent about what he said to them, and surprise some of it was pretty inflammatory.

You don't get to take people's money, deliver faulty or unfinished products, and then flee the country while maintaining the moral high ground. "We did our best", though I'm not sure you were really more than a sole proprietorship, isn't good enough. If a lawsuit with IMET would have paid you enough to refund all your customers then why the hell wouldn't you do that? I hope for the sake of potential customers and your potential worker that you never start up a business again. You obviously don't have the chops to run a company.

So you say, "One day maybe we get our lawsuit with IMET." My question to you is, what if you do and you manage to win? Would you refund the people whose money you took? My guess would be no at this point.

You must think you have the biggest swinginest dick in the world to come in here and talk like this. For fucks sake.

Right, monitoring wasn't part of the plot. We can pull the email from Craig lenell who claims otherwise and post it here if you'd like. You were sent a PSU, just like fuzzy was. And there was no fleeing the country, Josh spent 2 months in china building and shipping miners, making sure it got done. Then went back to Bulgaria for a few months to shut down AMT's outsourced operations there. He also dealt with a divorce and and several other things. "Fleeing the country" is a provocative statement, and made to instigate a reaction. Josh had always lived part time in Bulgaria for the past 6 years due to his former marriage. There was no action of fleeing, he just went home. He ended up getting divorced, loosing his apartment in BG, his wife, and new born kid. You lost 6k? He lost everything.

He's been in Philadelphia since February. The idea that he's fled the country and has a secret mining farm is ridiculous. He's also met with lenell's lawyers in their office face to face on several occasions. AMT's still has the summons and prepared claim, IMET needs to be served and if there is judgement/settlement it will go to repay the clients, so to answer your question, Yes, the idea was to attribute winnings to clients and issue refunds. Reviewing submissions to a public docket doesn't make you an expert on the matter, and listening to a shmuck like Tony Serrata who has is own agenda among other things is ridiculous as well. There is no more AMT, no secret wallets with tons of btc, no one to sue, just a broke guy working as a freelance electrician fixing peoples light switches and home wiring during the day and spending his nights in the bar or on the sofa staring at the bottom of the bottle.

Take what ever money you can afford to gamble with, buy btc and sell between Sept 15-20th. You'll make your 6k back. Or invest in something non-crypto related and open a margin account and long ticker: TZA for the next 2 months, again selling between Sept 15th-20th.
Or sue josh personally, and have his "wages garnished". He'd need to be employed for that one bud. Have you googled his name, if you were an employer would you hire him?

You just got two sure fire ways to make your money back. Use them.

Clenell can you verify the bolded? As for the secret wallets, I pretty much proved that some time ago. Anyone going thru my post history can see the blockchain wallets showing excesses of 2000Btc in poorly masked attempts at money laundering. I mean this was the special olympics of money laundering and you came in last, thats how stupid the attempt was. Took me all of one hour to find it. Took me more time to make the post formatted correctly than it did to trace the BTC you made. Oh and said wallets (there are 2) are still making alot of mining income. Your operation with KNC. But Clenell can validate with a simple yes or no if you really are back. If so there are some people interested in speaking with you (hint they wear uniforms).

And whatever you do don't take any advice from Joshua Zipkin aka AMT_Miners. If he is telling you this then it means he is expecting a massive change in the market...because he is obviously one of the people manipulating it (it is still statistically small enough to be manipulated by enough big players).

Oh another thing, "clearly" Joshua Zipkin must have someone working for him and therefore money to pay them if he is having someone write this for him. Ergo there is money, else you would not be doing this for free "not Josh" behind AMT_miners. Noone would be so stupid to subject themselves to this after everything that has happened. A google search for your, OH wait I meant Joshua Zipkin clearly demonstrates who he is and his antics and lame SEO attempts to clear his name.

[opieum2]

Rik,
Breaking necks hands and threats are his specialty
I am wandering how a pig like Zipkin poserkoto can brake something at all he have to pay for it for sure but here the "boys" who do it do it only in preorder and once in his miserable life he will have to pay 100% in advance   and wait without refund option
Now seriously there were some threats about his family here even his address in Bulgaria was posted. I asked folks absolutely seriously not to act like him and became same scumbags and cowards  Forum history is here and I  will not loose my time to dig my posts regarding this. His wife and relatives have nothing to do with his shits and can not be held responsible for Zipkin actions.

I am positive that everybody me, you and Zipkin of course will get what we deserve someday. The life, good or whatever force is out there will take care and everyone of us will pay for the shits we made in one way or another. Or will be rewarded in one way or another for the good things we have done.  That is how it works and it is not a threat. Life will take care it is just a matter of time.
But for sure if I meet Zipkin in person I will spit in his face and will take all the risk and consequences of what such fat ass can do to me

From what I understand he is in Bulgaria (despite what he says otherwise) check through my posts, I posted the address there at one point as a good turn for him doing the same to me you can have a chat with him. Have a chat with him. See whats really going on You are in Bulgaria are you not?

[opieum2]

When a wife a client doubts her husband because he made the wrong choice to purchase a miner, (from any company by all means),  or when the wife of an owner divorces him right after having their newborn for fear of her child's life and her own due to the types of threats and gestures which have been made.

And trust josh, he would know threats.

Yep, Josh said that I deserve to die. His words even made the Bitcoin-themed rags.

Curious as to who that was directed to? Basically he admitted there was a threat to someone. A client? Would not be the first time Joshua Zipkin has issued veiled threats to a client. I of course speak from personal experience as does Gleb.

[mrpark]

AMT Miners - You told everyone we would get refunds, that there was a list. It never happened. We paid $6,000 for miners, and what most got were $800 dragon miners that were near worthless at the time. In my case I got one in pieces, and those pieces were used and not new. You have set people back in their lives.  Now you suggest they spend money on bitcoin, when they lost so much with you already. Somethings never change. It's nice to see you have money to drink away, you should be sending it to the people you made the promises to. We can't believe anything you say.

[hozer]

I'd be interested in looking at some of that. Haven't had a good laugh in a while.

The schems, BOM and PCB files remain property of Bitmine.ch and I have to respct that part of the NDA I had with AMT.

What I can say is that Bitmine pretty much took the 2-chip dev board that was being used in the A1 dev thread here and multiplied it into a lot of 2-chp layouts on 1 big board. Also apparently never paid attention to what was being said there about thermals when the chips are pushed to published specs.

As to Vcore... Due to product availability AMT used a different model of the regulator chip that had a higher value internal ref divider (100k vs 10k). But - dinna change the external resistor values to match the difference. Also AMT/Bitmine never tried to set the internal flash ram in the regulator to startup at a safe voltage. Result: For several seconds the ASICS are hit with a Vcore voltage above their max ratings until a bootstrap program is run to set it to the correct voltage.  

EDI: Correction. Looking through my notes was the DPOT feeding the regulators set point that was substituted w/o correcting the fixed resistor values in the reference divider tied to it. End result was the same.

NotFuzzyWarm,  thanks for sharing your info.  You are absolutely right! They took Innosiicon's Dec 2013 2 chip lab test boad and simply multiply up to a big board while replacing our DCDC regulators and heat sinks design with their own inadequate ones. They ingored our repeated warning about the importance of extra margin on DCDC and big top thermal heat sink. Also they were way too aggressive in reducing on-board MCU. They one time fried a large batch of ASICs by ignoring the manufacturing protocol of baking the chips 7 hours before SMT soldering process. Chips were fried and pop up in flame. What can we say? All sorts of silly mistakes imaginable for naive engineers trying to make their 1st PCB production in life time.
 
From Jan to May 2014 when A1 was the best in the world and miners were in huge demand, they wasted all these precious mrket windows and chips in several failed attempts to make their Miner production. This is why any chip in their hands did not turn into miners to make money. In the meantime, people used the same design they released also suffered big time and sat with boxes of PCB boards not knowing what to do.  We really felt sorry for them.
 
Simply a  tragedy!

I was supposed to do firmware on another A1 based design, and ended up debugging the switching power supply on the system. I did manage to get 3 of the chips on the board to hash. This design never shipped, and I never really followed up on if any of the customers actually got promised systems.

I think the best thing that Innosilicon could do to regain public trust is post a fully working PCB layout under a creative commons license, and clear and transparent pricing for A1 chips, and what the different grades are. I'd like to know what equipment you use on the fab line to grade the chips.... One of my current contracts is with a company making semiconductor test equipment. Maybe we can improve the chip grading process.

[Gleb Gamow]

When a wife a client doubts her husband because he made the wrong choice to purchase a miner, (from any company by all means),  or when the wife of an owner divorces him right after having their newborn for fear of her child's life and her own due to the types of threats and gestures which have been made.

And trust josh, he would know threats.

Yep, Josh said that I deserve to die. His words even made the Bitcoin-themed rags.

Curious as to who that was directed to? Basically he admitted there was a threat to someone. A client? Would not be the first time Joshua Zipkin has issued veiled threats to a client. I of course speak from personal experience as does Gleb.

The threat was toward me, and he was referring to me calling him the Jewish Freemason Bulgarian Gimp.

The son of bitchin' motherfuckin' cocksucker Jewish bastard denied being a Freemason from the get-to of AMT, so it had to be that Joshua Zipkin offered up his Gimp ass for the masons to fuck so that he could use a space behind the temple as an office that just so happened to literally be across the street from the women his scammy dad is married to and fucks on a regular basis so that she could sign for return packages to the cocksucker Joshua Zipkin.

There wasn't one motherfuckin' issue with him being a Freemason. Not fuckin' one. But, the honest Joshua Zipkin opted to lie about it. Then continued to lie about it. Then some more, finally coming out and declaring such is true and will burn down the house of the dude that brought light to said fact. The Freemasons must be proud to have the likes of Joshua Zipkin and his dad, Zachariah Harry Zipkin, in their fold.

[opieum2]

One scammy fat fuck scammer down in the bitcoin community. Only a matter of time before the rest like Joshua Zipkin his almost twin goes down #JoshuaZipkin #bitcoinscammer
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/aug/01/ex-boss-of-mtgox-bitcoin-exchange-arrested-in-japan-over-lost-480m



This is gonna be Zipkin at some point.

[Xian01]

One scammy fat fuck scammer down in the bitcoin community. Only a matter of time before the rest like Joshua Zipkin his almost twin goes down #JoshuaZipkin #bitcoinscammer
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/aug/01/ex-boss-of-mtgox-bitcoin-exchange-arrested-in-japan-over-lost-480m

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate

Japan has a conviction rate that exceeds 99% (Note that it includes guilty plea cases.[1]), which has been attributed to low prosecutorial budgets impelling understaffed prosecutors to present judges with only the most obviously guilty defendants.

Karpeles is toast.

[pekatete]

Storm in a tea-cup really ... 5th paragraph says:

If found guilty, Karpeles could face up to five years in prison, or a fine of up to 500,000 yen (£2,650).

[notlist3d]

One scammy fat fuck scammer down in the bitcoin community. Only a matter of time before the rest like Joshua Zipkin his almost twin goes down #JoshuaZipkin #bitcoinscammer
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/aug/01/ex-boss-of-mtgox-bitcoin-exchange-arrested-in-japan-over-lost-480m

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate

Japan has a conviction rate that exceeds 99% (Note that it includes guilty plea cases.[1]), which has been attributed to low prosecutorial budgets impelling understaffed prosecutors to present judges with only the most obviously guilty defendants.

Karpeles is toast.

Reading article it's insane to think of keeping "MtGox said 750,000 customer bitcoins and another 100,000 belonging to the exchange were stolen due to a software security flaw." in a hot wallet.  I cannot imagine 850,000 BTC in a hot wallet.  Just even if they talked about security I cannot imagine someone suggesting hey ... lets move most of this to cold wallet and only keep so much online.

[opieum2]

One scammy fat fuck scammer down in the bitcoin community. Only a matter of time before the rest like Joshua Zipkin his almost twin goes down #JoshuaZipkin #bitcoinscammer
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/aug/01/ex-boss-of-mtgox-bitcoin-exchange-arrested-in-japan-over-lost-480m

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate

Japan has a conviction rate that exceeds 99% (Note that it includes guilty plea cases.[1]), which has been attributed to low prosecutorial budgets impelling understaffed prosecutors to present judges with only the most obviously guilty defendants.

Karpeles is toast.

Reading article it's insane to think of keeping "MtGox said 750,000 customer bitcoins and another 100,000 belonging to the exchange were stolen due to a software security flaw." in a hot wallet.  I cannot imagine 850,000 BTC in a hot wallet.  Just even if they talked about security I cannot imagine someone suggesting hey ... lets move most of this to cold wallet and only keep so much online.

Too bad Zipkin didn't rip off any Japanese clients.

[rik_khaos]

One scammy fat fuck scammer down in the bitcoin community. Only a matter of time before the rest like Joshua Zipkin his almost twin goes down #JoshuaZipkin #bitcoinscammer
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/aug/01/ex-boss-of-mtgox-bitcoin-exchange-arrested-in-japan-over-lost-480m

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate

Japan has a conviction rate that exceeds 99% (Note that it includes guilty plea cases.[1]), which has been attributed to low prosecutorial budgets impelling understaffed prosecutors to present judges with only the most obviously guilty defendants.

Karpeles is toast.

Reading article it's insane to think of keeping "MtGox said 750,000 customer bitcoins and another 100,000 belonging to the exchange were stolen due to a software security flaw." in a hot wallet.  I cannot imagine 850,000 BTC in a hot wallet.  Just even if they talked about security I cannot imagine someone suggesting hey ... lets move most of this to cold wallet and only keep so much online.

Too bad Zipkin didn't rip off any Japanese clients.

That we know of.

The order list he gave over to the court only had US orders not international orders.

Also I was just thinking about it, and zipkin referred to us as avengers. He does know the avengers are the good guys right? Maybe he fancies him-self a super villain rather than a petty crook.

[toptek]

Storm in a tea-cup really ... 5th paragraph says:

If found guilty, Karpeles could face up to five years in prison, or a fine of up to 500,000 yen (£2,650).

nice link first time I read about it . he refused to come to the US for questioning , well if hes found guilty etc there, after his five years is up the US will pick him up and the US may still under some other law He could be in jail for 30 or 40 years . you just don't lose 390 M and expect no one to care or notice then once it's over a few years later popup and on some iland live in like a king . lmao.

[QuintLeo]

Michael Millican (sp) spent less than 5 years in jail over his bloody-near a BILLION ripoff of folks.

 I don't remember the details, something about junk bond fraud....

[toptek]

Michael Millican (sp) spent less than 5 years in jail over his bloody-near a BILLION ripoff of folks.

 I don't remember the details, something about junk bond fraud....

some one in US just recently had the book trowed at him  for bitcoins related crimes some of it was unfair but i guess they don't care in  US any more and getting really tired of this kind of stuff.

but yea if the US doesn't come after him and they don't recover the coins hell Pretty much get a way with it but they are creaking down on it here. it wasn't dot.com it was some one else when i find it I'll link it . they wanted to make a example of hm and did .

[tonyca]

AMT_miner, where is my refund, so rediculous you can not just keep quit, be a man do repsonble for what you caused.  give me the refund.
AMT order #645 and #962, where is my refund?

I paid you for 20BTC, now you just keep quiet.