Greece Cannot Pay, Greece Will Not Pay

[n2004al]

The Greece must resolve first its political problems now. With the new political configuration Tsipras may not be more in power or must be in coalition with parties that are much more Europeans and inclined to do much more concessions. This will means much more diverse policy. Greece might go in diverse directions...

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[MF Doom]

The question is, if Greece managed to leave euro, that could mean other countries which are also in debt can also follow suit and do the same. Eventually when more countries follow the same action, it can only mean that the whole union will collapse. These has been projected to happen for some time now and I see no other solution.

Exactly.  I dont see how when debt (and overspending) was their problem in the first place, how more debt could possibly help the situation at all?  As they say they are just "kicking the can down the road" and hoping the problem solves itself.  Well it wont, and things surely will be worse for the Greeks the next time around

[johnyj]

The question is, if Greece managed to leave euro, that could mean other countries which are also in debt can also follow suit and do the same. Eventually when more countries follow the same action, it can only mean that the whole union will collapse. These has been projected to happen for some time now and I see no other solution.

Exactly.  I dont see how when debt (and overspending) was their problem in the first place, how more debt could possibly help the situation at all?  As they say they are just "kicking the can down the road" and hoping the problem solves itself.  Well it wont, and things surely will be worse for the Greeks the next time around

Basically all the country in the world are facing the same problem, but all the other countries can kick the can down the road almost forever since they just create their own money and lend to themselves to pay back the old debt and repeat and repeat ... If Greece central bank can create euro and lend to their government, they will look as good (or bad) as US, Japan etc...

The only way for Greece to get out of current trouble is create their own money, if euro is not allowed, then drachma. Of course there will be inflation and so on, but they will never face the pressure from outside. US government also shutdown some times but it never hurts

[Pab]

Like i see Greece now,it will be better for them to comeback for Drachma,but thay need to preper his economy for that,itcant bedone just overnight,not so much easy,but to stay with Euro is death end

[OROBTC]

...

Just because most people are looking at CHINA now does not mean Greece & Europe have gone away.

Greece's continuing problems are still a big problem for the rest of Europe, which has its own other problems as well (ref. Zero Hedge article on crashing ocean container rates from China to Europe). 

Germany is likely suffering lower exports to China, but I have not read anything about that yet.  China is a BIG customer of German machinery.  And luxury car sales (also cratering in China).

But, China, for now anyway, is still the bigger story. 

[n2004al]

Like i see Greece now,it will be better for them to comeback for Drachma,but thay need to preper his economy for that,itcant bedone just overnight,not so much easy,but to stay with Euro is death end

Maybe you are right and maybe not. There are to many public people who defend one or the other way. Personally think that drachma will be a drama for the Greeks. They will see their currency devaluated  50-60 immediately and go in hell half of their money. And this is only the minimum....

[Santoso]

Greece will get up. It gets stimulus from IMF.

[n2004al]

Greece will get up. It gets stimulus from IMF.

Greece have to do a lot of money to IMF. This is the first thing. IMF cannot do nothing if Greece don't get back that money to them. The second thing is that IMF cannot decide for itself. There are European Union and Central European Bank that must accord with those.

[mindrust]

The question is, if Greece managed to leave euro, that could mean other countries which are also in debt can also follow suit and do the same. Eventually when more countries follow the same action, it can only mean that the whole union will collapse. These has been projected to happen for some time now and I see no other solution.

The very reason why Euro is still funding Greece and taking a hit on its finances is that if Greece leaves, so does other important countries which seem like a liability but actually are the asset to Eurozone, and the reason why Greece is still in Eurozone is because Greece knows exactly what's in store for them when they go independent and they're getting attention because of their geographical position, nothing else.

If Greece leaves Euro; Countries like Spain, Porteguese and Ireland will follow them. That results complete destruction of (so called) "Euro Dream"

[Pab]

Greece will get up. It gets stimulus from IMF.

You are wrong.IMF didnt join bailout yet,IMF condition was Greece debt reduction,talk about it will be in October propably with neww Greece governament

From current bailout Greece didnt get nothing.26 bln euro went to pay debt to EBC,about 13 bln went to Greece banks capitalisation and rest to pay Greece past bills

There is still capital control in Geece,deeper recession and poverty and more and more imigrants
Nothing can changed for better in people of Greece life
many Greeks business is now escaping to Bulgaria

[mrhelpful]

If anything I feel like they are going to be dropped out for the euro.

And then end becoming like venezula, where there is zimbawae currency and its value is next to nothing if they have no production.

[Searing]

Can anyone catch me up here...has there been any momentum of the Greeks of any type (Rich/Poor/Famous/Gov't Talk) or anything on BTC movement
since the crisis has happened or have we lost ground with the Greeks on any crypto movement of even a small amount of improvement (ie like Venezuela and BTC)

Just wondering...probably the reason I have heard nothing because there is nothing being said...but then again maybe native Greek speakers or such have
heard (hopefully) some momentum from this EU/Euro fiasco and at least folk are kicking around the idea of crypto more then before the EU shutdown stuff.

[n2004al]

The question is, if Greece managed to leave euro, that could mean other countries which are also in debt can also follow suit and do the same. Eventually when more countries follow the same action, it can only mean that the whole union will collapse. These has been projected to happen for some time now and I see no other solution.

The very reason why Euro is still funding Greece and taking a hit on its finances is that if Greece leaves, so does other important countries which seem like a liability but actually are the asset to Eurozone, and the reason why Greece is still in Eurozone is because Greece knows exactly what's in store for them when they go independent and they're getting attention because of their geographical position, nothing else.

If Greece leaves Euro; Countries like Spain, Porteguese and Ireland will follow them. That results complete destruction of (so called) "Euro Dream"

For the moment those are only words. The situation in those countries is to much different from the Greece. First of all their all have an economy which produce; so able to pay the debt. In different of the Greece who the only economy is the tourism; If the people want to go to the beach Greece have money. If not, no money.

[HarHarHar9965]

The question is, if Greece managed to leave euro, that could mean other countries which are also in debt can also follow suit and do the same. Eventually when more countries follow the same action, it can only mean that the whole union will collapse. These has been projected to happen for some time now and I see no other solution.

The very reason why Euro is still funding Greece and taking a hit on its finances is that if Greece leaves, so does other important countries which seem like a liability but actually are the asset to Eurozone, and the reason why Greece is still in Eurozone is because Greece knows exactly what's in store for them when they go independent and they're getting attention because of their geographical position, nothing else.

If Greece leaves Euro; Countries like Spain, Porteguese and Ireland will follow them. That results complete destruction of (so called) "Euro Dream"

For the moment those are only words. The situation in those countries is to much different from the Greece. First of all their all have an economy which produce; so able to pay the debt. In different of the Greece who the only economy is the tourism; If the people want to go to the beach Greece have money. If not, no money.

Greece was doing pretty alright before their failure to deliver the debt amount, most of their economy was being fueled by the money made from tourism. A lot of people question how can a country survive on money based solely on tourism to which a perfect example could be Singapore, they are not in debt but rather have excess funds in their treasure box Tourism brings all that crazy amount of money, making Singapore one of the best countries to be involved in business with.

[n2004al]

The question is, if Greece managed to leave euro, that could mean other countries which are also in debt can also follow suit and do the same. Eventually when more countries follow the same action, it can only mean that the whole union will collapse. These has been projected to happen for some time now and I see no other solution.

The very reason why Euro is still funding Greece and taking a hit on its finances is that if Greece leaves, so does other important countries which seem like a liability but actually are the asset to Eurozone, and the reason why Greece is still in Eurozone is because Greece knows exactly what's in store for them when they go independent and they're getting attention because of their geographical position, nothing else.

If Greece leaves Euro; Countries like Spain, Porteguese and Ireland will follow them. That results complete destruction of (so called) "Euro Dream"

For the moment those are only words. The situation in those countries is to much different from the Greece. First of all their all have an economy which produce; so able to pay the debt. In different of the Greece who the only economy is the tourism; If the people want to go to the beach Greece have money. If not, no money.

Greece was doing pretty alright before their failure to deliver the debt amount, most of their economy was being fueled by the money made from tourism. A lot of people question how can a country survive on money based solely on tourism to which a perfect example could be Singapore, they are not in debt but rather have excess funds in their treasure box Tourism brings all that crazy amount of money, making Singapore one of the best countries to be involved in business with.

You're in big wrong my friend. Singapore is much more than an economy represented only in tourism. I invite you to read only a few words about the economy of Singapore taken from Wikipedia:

Singapore is a world leader in several economic areas: The country is the world's fourth leading financial centre,[123] the world's second largest casino gambling market,[124] one of the world's top three oil-refining centres, the world's largest oil-rig producer, and a major hub for ship repair services.[125][126][127] The World Bank has named Singapore as the easiest place in the world to do business,[124] and ranks Singapore the world's top logistics hub.[128] The 4th edition of the Global Green Economy Index™ (GGEI) revealed that expert practitioners ranked Singapore the 7th greenest city in the world.[129]

In April 2013, for the first time, Singapore surpassed Japan in average daily foreign-exchange trading volume with $383 billion per day. So the rank became: the United Kingdom (41%), the United States (19%), Singapore (5.7)%, Japan (5.6%) and Hong Kong (4.1%).[130]

Singapore's economy depends heavily on exports and refining imported goods, especially in manufacturing,[131] which constituted 27% of the country's GDP in 2010, and includes significant electronics, petroleum refining, chemicals, mechanical engineering and biomedical sciences sectors. In 2006, Singapore produced about 10% of the world's foundry wafer output.[132] Singapore has a diversified economy, a strategy that the government considers vital for its growth and stability despite its size.[133]

So no far comparison between Greece and Singapore.

[Pab]

...

Just because most people are looking at CHINA now does not mean Greece & Europe have gone away.

Greece's continuing problems are still a big problem for the rest of Europe, which has its own other problems as well (ref. Zero Hedge article on crashing ocean container rates from China to Europe). 

Germany is likely suffering lower exports to China, but I have not read anything about that yet.  China is a BIG customer of German machinery.  And luxury car sales (also cratering in China).

But, China, for now anyway, is still the bigger story. 

China is big Greece is small,More easy to get for markets that what thay want in acase of China
German luxury cars,Germans cars sells is 7% down,why,becouse i see here very nice Chinise Volvo, V40 is really nice,chinise but made in Sweden,many diffrent kind of volvo,many dillers,many service points

And Saab,man i saw on the street luxury Saab,designe from best itlan designers,in style of a little like old time,that car was not riding,that car was flying,any mercedes and BMW has no chance to compate,Chinise Saab done in Sweden,best mark

I ve been listening in Polish radio interview with polish etno rock singer.He was invited to China by owner of major Chinise music company.He brought her by car from airport by car.That car was Volvo.

And now chinise automakers will begin sales of chinise cars,made in China

I can also add that Hindu Tatha will produce in Slovakia luxury Jaguar,legend between cars
competition,but newswill be lessgermanscarsales becouse of China crash

China will propably slowdown a little,but it is normal cycly,paranoid westerness mass media  will support economy armagedon

[OROBTC]

...

Pab

I will certainly be interested to hear how Chinese cars are accepted into European markets.  I do understand that if *might* be easier for China to grab some low-end car sales in Greece (cheap cars), but I still would be interested to hear from ANYONE re acceptance of Chinese cars in their markets.

Chinese cars started showing up in Peru maybe some four years ago.  Cheap but low quality.  Counting buses and trucks, there are some 80 brands in Peru alone...  Chinese car manufacturers bloodbath soon?

*   *   *

HarHarHar

My understanding is that Singapore has a huge oil refining industry and is one of the top two or three transshipment ports in the world.  They also have carved out something of a niche in secret banking, although with capital controls all over the world, I do not know how that effort is going.

[Pab]

...

Pab

I will certainly be interested to hear how Chinese cars are accepted into European markets.  I do understand that if *might* be easier for China to grab some low-end car sales in Greece (cheap cars), but I still would be interested to hear from ANYONE re acceptance of Chinese cars in their markets.

Chinese cars started showing up in Peru maybe some four years ago.  Cheap but low quality.  Counting buses and trucks, there are some 80 brands in Peru alone...  Chinese car manufacturers bloodbath soon?

*   *   *

HarHarHar

My understanding is that Singapore has a huge oil refining industry and is one of the top two or three transshipment ports in the world.  They also have carved out something of a niche in secret banking, although with capital controls all over the world, I do not know how that effort is going.

Hi my favourite thread on btctalk,there is nice to talk with you here

Some time ago Chinise have bought Volvo,Swedish car maker,Great mark,wondeful cars ,very strong and very safe

It was some shock for Swedish people,but thay said ,wewill never sell Saab,Saab is even better,famous becouse of Rally,same great mark and cars

Than Chinise bought Saab also,thay have investedsome money in both mark and voila ,You have made in sweden chinise cars,best possible,germans cant block sales of both mark,no against chinise

But now i know Chinise will produce in Europe some hi scars.Not big problem,Korean Kia and Hyundai are in Europe from years


Singapore i dont know so much,it is specific area,with many smart business people,mostly Chinse orgin.Singapore is some how window bridge to China,also thay are related to Australia

[n2004al]

...

Pab

I will certainly be interested to hear how Chinese cars are accepted into European markets.  I do understand that if *might* be easier for China to grab some low-end car sales in Greece (cheap cars), but I still would be interested to hear from ANYONE re acceptance of Chinese cars in their markets.

Chinese cars started showing up in Peru maybe some four years ago.  Cheap but low quality.  Counting buses and trucks, there are some 80 brands in Peru alone...  Chinese car manufacturers bloodbath soon?

*   *   *

HarHarHar

My understanding is that Singapore has a huge oil refining industry and is one of the top two or three transshipment ports in the world.  They also have carved out something of a niche in secret banking, although with capital controls all over the world, I do not know how that effort is going.

Hi my favourite thread on btctalk,there is nice to talk with you here

Some time ago Chinise have bought Volvo,Swedish car maker,Great mark,wondeful cars ,very strong and very safe

It was some shock for Swedish people,but thay said ,wewill never sell Saab,Saab is even better,famous becouse of Rally,same great mark and cars

Than Chinise bought Saab also,thay have investedsome money in both mark and voila ,You have made in sweden chinise cars,best possible,germans cant block sales of both mark,no against chinise

But now i know Chinise will produce in Europe some hi scars.Not big problem,Korean Kia and Hyundai are in Europe from years


Singapore i dont know so much,it is specific area,with many smart business people,mostly Chinse orgin.Singapore is some how window bridge to China,also thay are related to Australia

People you are going out of everything with these posts. Here must be talk about Greece and not about China, Singapore, Korea, Sweden or Moon and Sun. It is in vain write about those nations in a thread open about the crisis in Greece. So attention and mind in what you write.

[OROBTC]

...

Pab

I will certainly be interested to hear how Chinese cars are accepted into European markets.  I do understand that if *might* be easier for China to grab some low-end car sales in Greece (cheap cars), but I still would be interested to hear from ANYONE re acceptance of Chinese cars in their markets.

Chinese cars started showing up in Peru maybe some four years ago.  Cheap but low quality.  Counting buses and trucks, there are some 80 brands in Peru alone...  Chinese car manufacturers bloodbath soon?

*   *   *

HarHarHar

My understanding is that Singapore has a huge oil refining industry and is one of the top two or three transshipment ports in the world.  They also have carved out something of a niche in secret banking, although with capital controls all over the world, I do not know how that effort is going.

Hi my favourite thread on btctalk,there is nice to talk with you here

Some time ago Chinise have bought Volvo,Swedish car maker,Great mark,wondeful cars ,very strong and very safe

It was some shock for Swedish people,but thay said ,wewill never sell Saab,Saab is even better,famous becouse of Rally,same great mark and cars

Than Chinise bought Saab also,thay have investedsome money in both mark and voila ,You have made in sweden chinise cars,best possible,germans cant block sales of both mark,no against chinise

But now i know Chinise will produce in Europe some hi scars.Not big problem,Korean Kia and Hyundai are in Europe from years


Singapore i dont know so much,it is specific area,with many smart business people,mostly Chinse orgin.Singapore is some how window bridge to China,also thay are related to Australia

People you are going out of everything with these posts. Here must be talk about Greece and not about China, Singapore, Korea, Sweden or Moon and Sun. It is in vain write about those nations in a thread open about the crisis in Greece. So attention and mind in what you write.

n2004al

I think it is fair to write about other countries and how they may relate to Greece or its financial conditions.  Many lessons can be learned by looking at other's experiences.

Greece may be looking at a Venezuela-style catastrophe (I don't KNOW that, but it might be).  There are other countries that share some of Greece's problems, and we can look at their actions and results.

So, yes, this thread is about Greece.  But, relatively little has happened there in the past few days that we can really analyze.  So, IMO, it is OK to look at other situations that have some similarities with Greece as well as items like Chinese cars that *might* be coming to Greece.  And don't fool yourself, Chinese cars coming to Greece is NOT something that European car makers would welcome...  What would be next?  Chinese cars into Italy and France?  Now you're talking jobs lost.

Greece is also a lesson and a warning to the rest of Europe.  Greece may be leading the way re Europe, the immigration crisis there is affecting Greece a lot (along with Hungary, etc.).

Greece and the context of how Greece fits into the larger financial system is fair game IMO on this thread.