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Question: Monero Marketing: Is It Time?  (Voting closed: August 18, 2015, 09:17:53 PM)
Yes, the world is ready for fungible e-cash! - 12 (17.9%)
No, the 6GB/RAM database is a deal-killer. - 18 (26.9%)
No, we need an Official GUI. - 27 (40.3%)
No, we need multi-sig support. - 1 (1.5%)
Sort of, let's evaluate efforts case-by-case. - 9 (13.4%)
Total Voters: 67

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July 14, 2015, 09:17:53 PM
 #1

Previously, the XMR community had strong consensus that marketing should to be deprioritized until the DB/GUI were done(ish).

Now we're seeing an outpouring of verbal and financial support for translations, etc.

Are we in danger of putting the marketing cart before the development horse?

Are translation efforts valuable for both development and marketing, as they introduce XMR to users and coders outside the anglosphere?

Let's clarify what has changed, and evaluate whether those changes justify a shift to higher marketing priority.

Looking back, 3 specific concerns were raised in concluding premature marketing is at best futile and at worst self-defeating:

I agree that DRK's marketing is a lot better than ours, but we should wait with heavy marketing till all key features are completed (GUI,DB). Advertising XMR in it's current state will only generate a contradictory effect than what we desire.

i agree, we need marketing soon. but slides and everything needed can already be produced now  Wink
i too feel this will be really huge. the tech is superior, dev team is honest, community is grown up and coin is fair.

I think that we have to do 3 things first

+ GUI: better usability shows that XMR tech is mature and easy for mass market (== user adoption == liquidity)
+ Database: amount of memory required for XMR wallet is not trivial any more
+ Multi-signature: some deep web merchants may need it to protect their buyers

Amen to that.

The first point is actually an important one. Bad usability and a lack of GUI wallet for the mass market make Monero look like a immature technology. This is true -for now- but progress continues. There is still plenty of time for Monero to grow into it's own.

Marketing is done slowly because marketing a command line utility with few B2B solutions at present is an exercice in futility. Main marketing for now is word-of-mouth, which is the most realiable way to avoid disappointment (one only makes one first impression).

Also, we are trying to transition to http://forum.monero.cc for this reason

Not for nothing but releasing and marketing something to the general public that is not ready for prime time WILL poison the brand. Even when it gets ready those that tried it and failed with it will never try again. You will sour a huge market if you market to to the uninformed/nontechnical masses.

If on the other hand your just looking for a price surge that will cause a quick selloff then have at it.

I certainly agree with you and forgot to add in my previous comment that we will only start with this (reddit giveaways were already discussed) after the GUI+DB has been released. But discussing about it won't do any harm.

All that was many months ago.  Is it still too SoonTM?

This issues:

1. Database.  Official tagged and released client still consumes ~6GB of RAM.  But unofficial binaries and official source code use a paltry ~75MB.  More and better compilation tutorial videos are available, and the unofficial binaries are from a well-known source.  Verdict: not there yet, but tantalizingly close.

2. GUI.  The webwallet mitigates most of this issue, as do the four(ish) unofficial GUIs.  A compromise, wherein the core devs designate one or more 3rd party GUI wallet as 'Officially Unofficial' is coming into view.  Verdict: all systems go!

3. Multi-sig.  This requires research into new crypto-magic.  But crowdfunding for a part-time dev is going very well, gmaxwell has generalized ring signatures and made them do fancy new tricks, and new services like xmr.to and shapeshift allow markets to use BTC internally while keeping XMR for the on and off-ramps.  Verdict: all systems go!


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"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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July 14, 2015, 09:26:40 PM
 #2

You can probably guess my opinion on this issue but I am curious to hear the opinions of others.

The last thing I want to do is upset the community by proceeding with some of my marketing ideas for China if lots of people think we are not ready.

Monero is a decentralized community where everyone is free to make their own decisions. However I still respect community opinions.
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July 14, 2015, 09:46:09 PM
 #3

the database is the killer for now, but step by step   Kiss

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July 14, 2015, 09:55:07 PM
 #4

You can probably guess my opinion on this issue but I am curious to hear the opinions of others.

The last thing I want to do is upset the community by proceeding with some of my marketing ideas for China if lots of people think we are not ready.

Monero is a decentralized community where everyone is free to make their own decisions. However I still respect community opinions.

I'm optimistic about Arabic and Chinese translations, as there are plenty of brilliant underutilized coders in those countries, although the language barrier hasn't stopped our Russian (and Czech?) friends from participating in the fun.

I'm a little resentful and borderline bitter about so many XMR being thrown at FreeBazaar, without escrow and to the exclusion/insult of the underfunded core devs.

Our rockstar core dev/crypto-boss tacotime's participation rate dropped soon after the thread worked itself into a lather over FreeBazaar, which IMO is extremely regrettable:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg10015296#msg10015296
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg10015353#msg10015353

I don't have the right to question how others spend their perfectly (at both protocol and social level) fungible XMR, but will nevertheless raise the issue of when to evaluate ROI on that service-building endeavor vs the opportunity cost of platform solidification.


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whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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July 14, 2015, 09:55:30 PM
 #5

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July 14, 2015, 10:18:06 PM
 #6

I think we need the database and the GUI before ...
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July 14, 2015, 10:25:10 PM
 #7

I think the database is the dealbreaker for now, a lot of people aren't able to use the original wallet because of the amount of RAM it uses, probably almost everyone who is using a laptop and hasn't got the technical knowledge to compile not fully released software.

Mymonero is great and I trust them with my coins but for bigger adoption to occur Monero definately has to become more user friendly (grandma friendly).

About the "official" GUI, a lot of haters/sceptics complain about this and IMO there are enough good wallets but again there should be one that is "official" and user friendly.

I really like that Monero is growing up so nicely and I see it being discussed at more and more places.

Someone on TradingView sent me this link: https://getsatisfaction.com/tradingview/topics/add-https-www-poloniex-com-to-the-bitcoin-related-exchanges

Please vote for Poloniex to be added on TV if you are a TV member, I'd like to be able to chart Poloniex XMR on TV, now they only have HitBTC which isn't the most trusted exchange AFAIK.
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July 15, 2015, 01:14:28 AM
 #8

You can probably guess my opinion on this issue but I am curious to hear the opinions of others.

The last thing I want to do is upset the community by proceeding with some of my marketing ideas for China if lots of people think we are not ready.

Monero is a decentralized community where everyone is free to make their own decisions. However I still respect community opinions.

I'm optimistic about Arabic and Chinese translations, as there are plenty of brilliant underutilized coders in those countries, although the language barrier hasn't stopped our Russian (and Czech?) friends from participating in the fun.

I'm a little resentful and borderline bitter about so many XMR being thrown at FreeBazaar, without escrow and to the exclusion/insult of the underfunded core devs.

Our rockstar core dev/crypto-boss tacotime's participation rate dropped soon after the thread worked itself into a lather over FreeBazaar, which IMO is extremely regrettable:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg10015296#msg10015296
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg10015353#msg10015353

I don't have the right to question how others spend their perfectly (at both protocol and social level) fungible XMR, but will nevertheless raise the issue of when to evaluate ROI on that service-building endeavor vs the opportunity cost of platform solidification.

I fully agree. The thousands of XMR dumped into that dice site also come to mind. The dice site swindle could've funded moneromoo 5X over.

Yah know, I'll just go on record saying it. Monero doesn't need an official GUI because we don't want grandma using it right now, and grandma can use mymonero. There are too many hardforks coming up that grandma isn't going to be bothered with. There's too many nuances considering its a completely different codebase than bitcoin. Right now, we don't want people cutting corners and ultimately putting the network's security at risk in order to make a few bucks (BTC SPV mining incident).

So yes, my vote is for "yes the world is ready" because the ones that are going to recognize what Monero is will take the time to figure out the CLI, how to compile the bleeding edge software, etc.... or they already know how to do this, which is even better.

Therefore, I consider "marketing" to be not to grandma, but to the whiz kid in China or some coder in some other part of the world. The world is ready - The uber nerdy technologically savy part of the world.

and to further snark on the freebazaar incident, im surprised people still mine on his pool.

< Track your bitcoins! > < Track them again! > <<< [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qomqt/what_a_landmark_legal_case_from_mid1700s_scotland/] What is fungibility? >>> 46P88uZ4edEgsk7iKQUGu2FUDYcdHm2HtLFiGLp1inG4e4f9PTb4mbHWYWFZGYUeQidJ8hFym2WUmWc p34X8HHmFS2LXJkf <<< Free subdomains at moneroworld.com!! >>> <<< If you don't want to run your own node, point your wallet to node.moneroworld.com, and get connected to a random node! @@@@ FUCK ALL THE PROFITEERS! PROOF OF WORK OR ITS A SCAM !!! @@@@
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July 15, 2015, 04:13:03 PM
Last edit: July 16, 2015, 11:06:06 PM by iCEBREAKER
 #9

I fully agree. The thousands of XMR dumped into that dice site also come to mind. The dice site swindle could've funded moneromoo 5X over.

Yah know, I'll just go on record saying it. Monero doesn't need an official GUI because we don't want grandma using it right now, and grandma can use mymonero. There are too many hardforks coming up that grandma isn't going to be bothered with. There's too many nuances considering its a completely different codebase than bitcoin. Right now, we don't want people cutting corners and ultimately putting the network's security at risk in order to make a few bucks (BTC SPV mining incident).

So yes, my vote is for "yes the world is ready" because the ones that are going to recognize what Monero is will take the time to figure out the CLI, how to compile the bleeding edge software, etc.... or they already know how to do this, which is even better.

Therefore, I consider "marketing" to be not to grandma, but to the whiz kid in China or some coder in some other part of the world. The world is ready - The uber nerdy technologically savy part of the world.

and to further snark on the freebazaar incident, im surprised people still mine on his pool.

Good call, I had mostly ignored and then promptly forgotten l'affaire Primedice.  So that's twice XMR boosters have been burned by supporting service build-out prior to platform solidification.

Your distinction between 'grandma ready' and 'uber nerd ready' is useful.  I submit that translation efforts be considered part of platform solidification, as XMR needs every whiz kid in China, every math genius in India, and every pro coder in Brazil we can get.  Not to mention a few semi-normal people like us to act as grunts, go-betweens, and ambassadors to the drooling masses.   Tongue

Has it occurred to you JR's soon to be famous 'Build Blackmarkets or GTFO' maxim implies we should ignore quasi-fungible, radically transparent Bitcoin (perhaps abandoning it to the Gavinistas and their spook/VC/redditard fanboy backers) and focus solely on Monero (gmax's CT notwithstanding)?

Quote

In any case, this paradigm should be used for Monero marketing (but not by core devs, to avoid MiB encounters).


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July 15, 2015, 05:04:43 PM
 #10

I don't need Monero needs official GUI before starting to find investors as many guys want to be early adopter.
The masses need GUIs and all that good stuff.
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July 15, 2015, 06:13:40 PM
 #11

Marketing ? LOL
no we never heard of it hahhaha

You guys are a day late and a dollar short.. I seen on my Canadian Tire receipt today something about CT-eCash
get it ?
Spoiler Alert:
The world is taking over Digital Currencies while Github Teens jerk off here at the forum.. year after year accomplishing nothing.

When are you guys going to realize unless you get everyone in the world involved your wasting your time ?
Hanging around Bitcointalk and the various Exchange Chat Boxes wankering on about your coin of the future is not smart.
Better check those exchange prices again (since that is all that matters)

FUD first & ask questions later™
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July 15, 2015, 06:19:19 PM
 #12

Marketing comes with a final product .....

you talking no oficial gui for hundreds of forks comming.... haha ect... maybe you need help to dump your XMR at expensives prices

sure not good to promote with your own name something is not finished

price go down for XMR and is good.
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July 15, 2015, 06:27:15 PM
Last edit: July 16, 2015, 11:09:13 PM by iCEBREAKER
 #13

When are you guys going to realize unless you get everyone in the world involved your wasting your time ?

Better check those exchange prices again (since that is all that matters)

We realized unless we get everyone in the world involved we're wasting our time when JR posted his "Only the Black Market Matters" manifesto.  If not sooner.

Good point about the exchange prices; XMR is worth $4.8 million.

I'm not sure with what to compare that number (a house on a decent golf course, a hobby winery somewhere nice?).

Using the start-up metaphor, $4.8 mil seems large enough to leave stealth/quiet mode and start making some marketing noises.

But the poll is running heavily towards 'not ready, wait for GUI/DB/SPV.'   Undecided


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"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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July 15, 2015, 06:32:32 PM
 #14

Marketing comes with a final product .....

you talking no oficial gui for hundreds of forks comming....

sure not good to promote with your own name something is not finished

Ok, we'll put you down for Option Three.  Thanks for voting!

Why is it so important than the Official GUI exit, when there are ~four unofficial ones, plus a webwallet?

What if the devs temporarily made one of the exiting GUI wallets quasi-official (Unofficially Official) while we wait for the exciting next-gen tech to be finished?


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"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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July 15, 2015, 06:33:47 PM
 #15

Marketing comes with a final product .....

you talking no oficial gui for hundreds of forks comming.... haha ect... maybe you need help to dump your XMR at expensives prices

sure not good to promote with your own name something is not finished

price go down for XMR and is good.

I wish someone had heavily marketed BTC to me back in 2009 when it was full of bugs and not the "final product" we have today.

Final product = much higher prices.

Some people actually enjoy being early adopters and spreading the word about bleeding edge tech. Those who hear about Monero in a few years when prices may be 100x higher than they are now probably will wish they heard about the "unfinished" product of today.

Besides there is no definition of finished product in crypto. Even BTC is still in beta. What I look for is steady development. Looking at github and the getmonero forums you will see lots of activity. Things are moving along nicely.
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July 15, 2015, 06:54:01 PM
 #16

I wish someone had heavily marketed BTC to me back in 2009 when it was full of bugs and not the "final product" we have today.

Final product = much higher prices.

Some people actually enjoy being early adopters and spreading the word about bleeding edge tech. Those who hear about Monero in a few years when prices may be 100x higher than they are now probably will wish they heard about the "unfinished" product of today.

Besides there is no definition of finished product in crypto. Even BTC is still in beta. What I look for is steady development. Looking at github and the getmonero forums you will see lots of activity. Things are moving along nicely.

Good points.  Did you vote for Option One?


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whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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July 15, 2015, 07:21:35 PM
 #17

I wish someone had heavily marketed BTC to me back in 2009 when it was full of bugs and not the "final product" we have today.

Final product = much higher prices.

Some people actually enjoy being early adopters and spreading the word about bleeding edge tech. Those who hear about Monero in a few years when prices may be 100x higher than they are now probably will wish they heard about the "unfinished" product of today.

Besides there is no definition of finished product in crypto. Even BTC is still in beta. What I look for is steady development. Looking at github and the getmonero forums you will see lots of activity. Things are moving along nicely.

Good points.  Did you vote for Option One?

Yes I voted for option one. One problem with this thread is that the poll may be partially manipulated by trolls from other communities to serve their own purposes. Maybe we should have another poll in the getmonero forums and compare the results.
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July 15, 2015, 07:51:07 PM
Last edit: July 16, 2015, 11:10:53 PM by iCEBREAKER
 #18

Yes I voted for option one. One problem with this thread is that the poll may be partially manipulated by trolls from other communities to serve their own purposes. Maybe we should have another poll in the getmonero forums and compare the results.

Troll participation is welcome and no problem at all.  We are finding out where they wish to concentrate their FUD attacks and to what extent they've been effective.   Wink

The troll-free getmonero poll already exists in the form of various crowdfunding efforts.    Cool


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papa_lazzarou
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July 15, 2015, 09:21:47 PM
 #19

Marketing comes with a final product .....

you talking no oficial gui for hundreds of forks comming....

sure not good to promote with your own name something is not finished

Ok, we'll put you down for Option Three.  Thanks for voting!

Why is it so important than the Official GUI exit, when there are ~four unofficial ones, plus a webwallet?

What if the devs temporarily made one of the exiting GUI wallets quasi-official (Unofficially Official) while we wait for the exciting next-gen tech to be finished?

We can launch a wallet branded "Monero Official GUI". That would do the trick.
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July 16, 2015, 01:08:46 AM
 #20

We can launch a wallet branded "Monero Official GUI". That would do the trick.

Give it that title, but keep it as a CLI Cheesy
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