Bitcoin Forum
December 07, 2021, 10:20:34 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 22.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: TORWallet - Scammer  (Read 11147 times)
Tweaked
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0



View Profile
September 24, 2012, 06:37:15 AM
 #1

TORWallet has not been allowing people to withdraw from there wallets for over one week with multiple users reporting the following messages when attempting to access or send bitcoins from there wallet.

Code:
"Hot wallet exhausted. Please wait while we move coins in from our offline wallet."

Code:
"Database error!"

TORWallet User: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=59945

Forum posts
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87387.160
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112201.0
1638872434
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1638872434

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1638872434
Reply with quote  #2

1638872434
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1638872434
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1638872434

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1638872434
Reply with quote  #2

1638872434
Report to moderator
1638872434
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1638872434

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1638872434
Reply with quote  #2

1638872434
Report to moderator
Tweaked
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0



View Profile
September 24, 2012, 01:56:44 PM
 #2

Totally bump  Grin

Seriously mark TORWallet please, people are still depositing coins.
Sethenes
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 18
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 24, 2012, 02:29:44 PM
 #3

They're probably milking it for all it's worth at this point by not responding, and taking advantage of people that have heard of or used the service before successfully.  They need a scammer tag, so that people smart enough to do a search of their name can see they're scamming before they deposit their coins.
SnafuKazoo
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 12
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 24, 2012, 07:38:45 PM
 #4

They're probably milking it for all it's worth at this point by not responding, and taking advantage of people that have heard of or used the service before successfully.  They need a scammer tag, so that people smart enough to do a search of their name can see they're scamming before they deposit their coins.
I cannot agree more with this statement.  If they get their service working properly and return all coins, the scammer tag should be instantly removed.
Sethenes
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 18
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 24, 2012, 08:01:14 PM
 #5

I cannot agree more with this statement.  If they get their service working properly and return all coins, the scammer tag should be instantly removed.

Agreed.  As well as an explanation.
Tweaked
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0



View Profile
September 24, 2012, 11:55:09 PM
 #6

Are there actually any admins or moderators on this forum.

I have PM'd Admins and started this topic yet still TORWallet is not marked as a "Scammer"

The original topic is the 3rd result on Google when searching for TORWallet. If there is anything the community can do it is destroy the reputation of TORWallet in order to protect future users. The fact that they are still running and accepting coins means they are milking it for all it is worth.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87387.0

https://www.google.com/?q=TORWallet


Please....Tag the user
Mr. Coinman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 277
Merit: 250



View Profile
September 25, 2012, 01:54:50 AM
 #7

Bump. Mods, this is important.

SnafuKazoo
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 12
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 25, 2012, 03:51:48 AM
 #8

Bump.  This is indeed important.
Sethenes
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 18
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 25, 2012, 09:09:05 AM
 #9

Maybe the admins are the ones behind it.
Tweaked
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0



View Profile
September 25, 2012, 10:12:05 AM
 #10

Maybe the admins are the ones behind it.

Doubt that but at this stage there pretty much enabling and promoting TORWallet as a legitimate service...
SnafuKazoo
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 12
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 25, 2012, 06:26:23 PM
 #11

Tweaked, thanks for the curl commands you posted earlier.  I didn't know the site had a functioning API.  I have been spamming them to send me back my coins the past few days.  I guess this is only thing we can do at this point.  From how the TORwallet representative spoke, it seemed the site was ran by multiple people (say 2 or 3).  If this is true, I wonder if only 1 person actually had possession of the coins at any given time, or if it was split equally with some sort of "checks and balances" in place?  If one of them decided to take off with the majority of the coins the service bounced around, you would think the other developers would have called foul to the community to let its users know the site went rogue.  Not a single person (besides the site's users) have come forward claiming to know why the site is "malfunctioning" (AKA stealing).  This makes me think TORwallet was run by one individual who manipulated the image of their mixing service to look more trustworthy.  This is all speculation and meaningless, but I'm just trying to contribute to the investigation and at least get the word out to steer clear of the site.  Mods, for fucks sake, please tag the user as a scammer.
guruvan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


View Profile
September 25, 2012, 07:13:14 PM
 #12

well...c'mon now...didn't you see this one coming 100 clicks away?

Torwallet indeed. Next, we'll just call it "torsiphon.bit" and watch them all toss their coin at it.

i saw one user on irc using sr for a wallet. Seems way betta to me. You know they have a vested interest in keeping their wallet secure and available (and not stealing it themselves) they make much more running sr. Cheesy


Tweaked
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0



View Profile
September 26, 2012, 01:39:28 AM
 #13

Tweaked, thanks for the curl commands you posted earlier.  I didn't know the site had a functioning API.  I have been spamming them to send me back my coins the past few days.  I guess this is only thing we can do at this point.  From how the TORwallet representative spoke, it seemed the site was ran by multiple people (say 2 or 3).  If this is true, I wonder if only 1 person actually had possession of the coins at any given time, or if it was split equally with some sort of "checks and balances" in place?  If one of them decided to take off with the majority of the coins the service bounced around, you would think the other developers would have called foul to the community to let its users know the site went rogue.  Not a single person (besides the site's users) have come forward claiming to know why the site is "malfunctioning" (AKA stealing).  This makes me think TORwallet was run by one individual who manipulated the image of their mixing service to look more trustworthy.  This is all speculation and meaningless, but I'm just trying to contribute to the investigation and at least get the word out to steer clear of the site.  Mods, for fucks sake, please tag the user as a scammer.

No problem SnafuKazoo they don't really have a working API but you can still send HTTP posts to the site. I'm still getting the "Hot wallet" message and I have been posting now since the service went down.

I'm not sure what sort of structure TORWallet had internally.  The thing that gets me about the "Hot wallet" message is the fact that the actual hot wallet cannot be exhausted due to the coins that users deposit to the site, so I think the message is just bullshit.


well...c'mon now...didn't you see this one coming 100 clicks away?

Torwallet indeed. Next, we'll just call it "torsiphon.bit" and watch them all toss their coin at it.

i saw one user on irc using sr for a wallet. Seems way betta to me. You know they have a vested interest in keeping their wallet secure and available (and not stealing it themselves) they make much more running sr. Cheesy

Guruvan, Did we see this coming ? No TORWallet operated perfectly for many months, coins where deposited and withdrawn without issues, plus they had many reviews on blog sites and on this forum. There was nothing untoward about the way the service was run just because it is behind TOR doesn't mean it is going to be a scam.

SR can be used as a wallet but that is not it's intended purpose.


To be honest I am now in serious doubt about this community if there are this many users stating that TORWallet is a scam and even the original topic has users reporting it's a scam, and still the admins/mods have not tagged the user as "scammer" plus the original topic is still bringing new users to there service.

Seriously what is the point of standing there and going, "c'mon guys this was always going to happen"??


 
theymos
Administrator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4326
Merit: 8844


View Profile
September 26, 2012, 02:23:08 AM
 #14

Tagged.

Anonymous EWallets should never be trusted. Unlike anonymous stores, coin mixers, and most other services, anonymous EWallets have absolutely no economic incentive to not steal their users' coins.

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
guruvan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


View Profile
September 26, 2012, 02:51:43 AM
 #15

No offense intended, but I have emails from a googlegroup from right when Torwallet was announced. Seemed to everyone on that list though it was the most likely new way to lose your coins.

A successful con will run clean for a while to maximize return on the investment for the scam. With a service like torwallet, you run it until you start to see the early adopter wave start to thin out, and bail right before the majority of them do. (a few months is about right) and hit it at just below the peak of deposits.

Tweaked
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0



View Profile
September 26, 2012, 09:21:32 AM
 #16

No offense intended, but I have emails from a googlegroup from right when Torwallet was announced. Seemed to everyone on that list though it was the most likely new way to lose your coins.

A successful con will run clean for a while to maximize return on the investment for the scam. With a service like torwallet, you run it until you start to see the early adopter wave start to thin out, and bail right before the majority of them do. (a few months is about right) and hit it at just below the peak of deposits.

Hi Guruvan,

Would be nice to see the link for this googlegroup ?

The only way to really find out if it is a scam or not is to use the service, which many of us did, Is it not ok to assume that there are good people that create quality services out there ? Should we always instantly think that something is a scam.... it's not within our nature.

It was a very successful con... shame that  Smiley
guruvan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


View Profile
September 26, 2012, 01:09:00 PM
 #17

Hi Guruvan,

Would be nice to see the link for this googlegroup ?

The only way to really find out if it is a scam or not is to use the service, which many of us did, Is it not ok to assume that there are good people that create quality services out there ? Should we always instantly think that something is a scam.... it's not within our nature.

It was a very successful con... shame that  Smiley

Yes the only way to find out if it's a scam it to use the service (or wait for others to do so)

No, it is not ok to assume that the new, anonymous people you're sending your money to are good people. You should presume that they are trying to con you, and allow them to slowly earn your trust. Slowly, because the long con nets the most of your money.

When attempting to verify such a service, you must presume that any and all coins sent are gone, and be pleasantly surprised if they're returned. The more complete the anonymity of the service, the less likely that service can ever build significant trust. There's no telling how long the con is!!

Community trust is not an acceptable measure of the trustworthiness of a service. It's very common in all social networks (online and off) for a con artist to befriend multiple people in the same network, establishing trust relationships quickly among all the new friends based on the newly gained trust of the other new friends. With this method, one can become very popular, well known, and trusted in a short time in a tight social group.
Obviously this quickly leads to amplified returns on such a scam as this appears to be. (works better with pseudonomous people rather than anonymous people...pirate got a lot more out of the people than torwallet....he's a friendly guy)

When you have no financial incentive for the service to stay honest, and they're anonymous, you have no way other than limiting your exposure to limit your risk. You have no way to inflict a penalty, so there is exactly zero consequence to relieving you of funds. Your funds should, at most, go in, and right out.

But, there's more....Say you do use a somewhat less anonymous, well known anonymous mixing wallet, like Silk Road. Well....they provide a service which is illegal in most jurisdictions that I know. So, if you move coin from your Mtgox account (with your real name on it) into SR, and SR is discovered, you now have exposed yourself to risk of law enforcement contact (at least). Or, maybe, the people who run SR got tipped off they were about to be discovered, and had to close up shop unexpectedly, and for any number of reasons...say...destruction of data in a high speed chase w/ crash ending...your btc is gone. With any anonymous service, it's impossible to truly evaluate the operation's overall security posture - if the operation is illegal in any jurisdiction, that makes your risk analysis much more complex (especially if you're not an experienced criminal!) So, still, you only move the coins you really want mixed, and move them out asap. 

Yeaah. Even if they're super nice guys - there's reasons not to trust anonymous services that collect your funds. Even with economic incentive, there may be significant risks. The less obvious the risks are, the less you can evaluate them, the more that risk goes up.

You must not assume that people asking for your money are the good people that they might be. And the second you see red flags in their behavior, you and your BTC must flee! Smiley

Finally, you really have to ask yourself: "Am I even achieving what I thought I was by mixing my coins, and did I even need to do that in the first place?"

Most of the time, most people do not have the experience with fiat money systems or bitcoin to successfully obfuscate the source of funds. While the mixing service may work effectively enough, the tracks on either side of the mixing service are usually going to expose you. This means that all that's really been achieved is exposing the mixing service's addresses.

Sethenes
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 18
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 26, 2012, 10:17:39 PM
Last edit: September 27, 2012, 01:14:49 AM by Sethenes
 #18

You know, after reading some of the scam threads, I wonder if they could be cooperating with an investigation and not letting anything go out.  Are they not allowed to talk about an ensuing investigation?  

I know I'm probably grasping at straws, but it's just a thought.
greyhawk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 1004


View Profile
September 26, 2012, 10:19:06 PM
 #19

That's cute.  Cheesy
Tweaked
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0



View Profile
September 26, 2012, 11:29:21 PM
 #20

Thanks for that long winded speech guruvan.

I completely agree with what you have said.

There's also some interesting notes to be taken. I'm fully aware of what needs to be achieved in "mixing" coins.

Quote
Finally, you really have to ask yourself: "Am I even achieving what I thought I was by mixing my coins, and did I even need to do that in the first place?"

Most of the time, most people do not have the experience with fiat money systems or bitcoin to successfully obfuscate the source of funds. While the mixing service may work effectively enough, the tracks on either side of the mixing service are usually going to expose you. This means that all that's really been achieved is exposing the mixing service's addresses.

Even if both sides of the transaction (in/out) are obvious, eg. funds came from this exchange and went out from this exchange, if the coins are mixed in between you cannot link the two transactions meaning they could have come from anywhere. So even if the original transaction is exposed there is no way to link it to the transaction out of the network. This is just my view anyway.

I really don't have time to reply to everything you have said  Sad

From now on I will be setting up my own anonymous VPS with a headless Bitcoin client running and use those addresses, at least then I have access to the private keys.


Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!