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Author Topic: BFL Requests Input  (Read 34789 times)
Phinnaeus Gage
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October 31, 2012, 04:44:47 PM
 #401

Are Darla Jo and Jody the same person?

The best I can ascertain is yes, and she lives with John M (Mutrux) on their urban chicken farm. For those who don't know the difference between urban and rural: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUY3UJTQvBk
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October 31, 2012, 04:52:49 PM
 #402

Gosh guys, BFL created this thread so that you could tell them things about your perspective of them.
Thats why this thread is still going, Take all the FUD and speculation elsewhere

What's the problem? Only stating what I have seen so far.....
Wich is totally fine~

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October 31, 2012, 07:29:54 PM
 #403

Urban or sub-urban chicken farm?

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BFL
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October 31, 2012, 10:13:11 PM
 #404

Are Darla Jo and Jody the same person?

The best I can ascertain is yes, and she lives with John M (Mutrux) on their urban chicken farm. For those who don't know the difference between urban and rural: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUY3UJTQvBk

Holy cow....  that's a great video.

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November 01, 2012, 01:41:40 AM
 #405

C'mon guys, you don't REALLY want know the new adress.

I mean look at what happened last time. There was a concrete foundation repair place there.

Think about it. Who else deals in concrete foundation and has VPs called Sonny?

Yeah, that's right.


Looks like they moved the building to Kansas: http://www.sos.ks.gov/CM_ServiceWM/displaydocuments.aspx?DocID=03331329

Update: I guess they only moved half the building: https://www.sos.mo.gov/BusinessEntity/soskb/Corp.asp?3402461

The time to panic would be when they have two new board members "Toto" and "Dorothy"
HC

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Phinnaeus Gage
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November 01, 2012, 03:03:55 AM
 #406

C'mon guys, you don't REALLY want know the new adress.

I mean look at what happened last time. There was a concrete foundation repair place there.

Think about it. Who else deals in concrete foundation and has VPs called Sonny?

Yeah, that's right.


Looks like they moved the building to Kansas: http://www.sos.ks.gov/CM_ServiceWM/displaydocuments.aspx?DocID=03331329

Update: I guess they only moved half the building: https://www.sos.mo.gov/BusinessEntity/soskb/Corp.asp?3402461

The time to panic would be when they have two new board members "Toto" and "Dorothy"
HC

The latter recognized because she's donning a pair of these:

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November 01, 2012, 03:39:46 AM
 #407

Quote
For clarity, the question is: Are the chips pictured in the article actual functioning BFL ASICs, or are they something else?

They look like prototypes of the design image BFL showed earlier in the year, which to my mind shows it's real, does it work, only they know. Would be nice if they could show a YouTube video of one working an shut up the doubters and I'm sure they would get more pre-orders.






Potentially a recipe for a manufacturing disaster.

Since there are 8 chips ALL relying on a SINGLE heatsink, a tiny variation in manufacturing could leave the chips at slightly different hights, resulting in chips that may not make contact with the bed of the heatsink, or worse!!, chips that are slightly higher and have the BGA connections compressed and fractured because they get compressed to be at the same hight as the surrounding devices.

Not to mention the "incursions" of the Ceramic capacitors UNDER the heatsink & at a HIGHER level than the chips requiring cooling.
(So HOW did they strap on a 'heatsink' to test the device?)

Don't EVEN get me started about the track routing around the heatsink fixing holes

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psilan
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November 01, 2012, 03:43:02 AM
 #408

This has been mentioned before and also confused me. No answer from BFL on that I think?

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November 01, 2012, 03:48:46 AM
 #409

Potentially a recipe for a manufacturing disaster.

Since there are 8 chips ALL relying on a SINGLE heatsink, a tiny variation in manufacturing could leave the chips at slightly different hights, resulting in chips that may not make contact with the bed of the heatsink, or worse!!, chips that are slightly higher and have the BGA connections compressed and fractured because they get compressed to be at the same hight as the surrounding devices.

Cairnsmore1 uses a similar design, cooling 4 chips (484-BGA I think) with a single heatsink/fan.  Does it have these kind of problems?

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November 01, 2012, 05:10:09 AM
 #410

Potentially a recipe for a manufacturing disaster.

Since there are 8 chips ALL relying on a SINGLE heatsink, a tiny variation in manufacturing could leave the chips at slightly different hights, resulting in chips that may not make contact with the bed of the heatsink, or worse!!, chips that are slightly higher and have the BGA connections compressed and fractured because they get compressed to be at the same hight as the surrounding devices.

Cairnsmore1 uses a similar design, cooling 4 chips (484-BGA I think) with a single heatsink/fan.  Does it have these kind of problems?
[Speculation]

From the latest report it seems like BFL will be using their in-house pick and place to possibly populate the BGA's. When (another member) asked about this, they gave a very vague "either and neither". (Neither confirm nor deny)

It seems like scenario 2 is the valid scenario.

If the device isn't operated properly, it may very well cause irregularities in-house final assembly.

Assuming I am wrong and Scenario 1 is correct, the 25 days wait time is unrealistic (IMO).

-----------------------------
I have to commend Bogart for asking the right questions. He just needs to actively nail them down on a few points and the likelihood of the schedule can be weighed against those answers to his questions.

Bogart also asked how much volume BFL will ship other than the 1/3 answer. He wasn't given (IMO) a satisfactory answer....

[speculation warning!]
This is my personal view only:

First,
It looks to me like they want to "keep it a secret" that they may be turning to in-house assembly on the first batch. (probably for the sake of time)

Second,
It looks like they are hoping to distract customers to this possibility of waiting longer with (newly or yet to be released) technical specs on their design/ASIC chip type/process node. Like many have said, they are injected information and picture to keep them interested until the darn things ultimately ship.

Keeping the excitement and hopes up as a substitute for actual delivery. (IMO)

Don't be at all surprised if they are using 65nm and the "watt to GH/s" is better than 60watts. Say around 23 to 40 watts (@ 60Gh/s) . In the coming days it will be their only main selling point, hence why they push it so often over and over again. (IMO)

If I am right about this, feel free to donate to a charity of your choice.

Third, (Looks into his crystal ball)
They are unlikely to make their estimated deadline in 24 days and people (the smaller customers) will begin pulling out their money in droves as Christmas approaches. The wise will have pulled their money out safely. The (IMO)unwise will hold on (on loyalty/hope/various reasoning) until they get an actual delivery sometime in late December and onward until February.

I suppose at that point rumors that BFL is in the red will escalate and people will be afraid to pull their money out for fear of imploding the company financially. Possibly losing their money and the product. These are the people whom are likely to eventually get their product if enough of the remaining customers stay (better late than never, all IMO).

If they do resort to in-house assembly (ASIC placement) to save time, my crystal ball says there may be noticeable defects as February and March roll on. I don't think BFL has bad hardware. I just think they are trying to meet a timed schedule that perhaps will put regular quality control processes at "the blink of an eye" rather than slowly working out bugs. This is (as admitted) the problem of going full custom. Issues are likely to crop up and it takes more time (with a better result). Cutting corners for the sake of time may lead to quality issues etc.

Fourth,
I think people will be disappointed that their unrealistic expectations are not met and leads to a pressuring of the company to produce their products faster than ever before. This will likely lead to consistency issues between batches. (IMO= In my opinion).

Fifth,
I think people will be unhappy when (or if) BFL cannot produce 6,000 units from their first/initial shipment within 1 month and that order numbers will be fulfilled at a slower than expected rate. (Correct me if I am wrong, but the 1/3 plan only applied to the first month of established pre-orders...not to every order after the first month.)

That will likely cause a second rush of refunds if people realize that even though the company has begun shipping...their order is a ways off. Possibly with loyal customers openly pleading with people that they will sink the company or leave the other customers potentially high and dry (without refunds) if a second refund round happens.

The biggest warning signs will be if and/or when the largest Mini-rig customers begin to pull out. I think the Mini-Rig customers will see the whole thing in a different light than those whom have only invested a few thousand.

I don't imagine these larger customers want to be known for various reasons and are unlikely to post on the forums. They are likely to be low-key and when or if they ask for refunds, it is unlikely the community will know it happened. Which means the invisible customers won't be noticed if they exit the pre-ordering process. I also think they will hold out until there is no reason to stay.

I don't see (in my crystal ball) these larger customers being willing to leave BFL unless their money is put at risk by too many small refunds being issued. I think they understand that they will be very profitable regardless of when BFL ships. Their main concern (my crystal ball tells me) is the company remains solvent until they receive their delivery.

While smaller customers care about "marginal" profitability in comparison to these larger orders. I estimate their mentality should be very different.

[This has been a work of an imaginative mind +- a crystal ball. This is posted only as speculation and a conveyance of one individuals views on a murky situation.)
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November 01, 2012, 06:27:47 AM
 #411



Potentially a recipe for a manufacturing disaster.

Since there are 8 chips ALL relying on a SINGLE heatsink, a tiny variation in manufacturing could leave the chips at slightly different hights, resulting in chips that may not make contact with the bed of the heatsink, or worse!!, chips that are slightly higher and have the BGA connections compressed and fractured because they get compressed to be at the same hight as the surrounding devices.

Not to mention the "incursions" of the Ceramic capacitors UNDER the heatsink & at a HIGHER level than the chips requiring cooling.
(So HOW did they strap on a 'heatsink' to test the device?)

Don't EVEN get me started about the track routing around the heatsink fixing holes


Custom shaped heat sink and thermal pad?
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November 01, 2012, 06:50:29 AM
 #412

Not at that level of heat dissipation.

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November 01, 2012, 06:57:52 AM
 #413

Potentially a recipe for a manufacturing disaster.

Since there are 8 chips ALL relying on a SINGLE heatsink, a tiny variation in manufacturing could leave the chips at slightly different hights, resulting in chips that may not make contact with the bed of the heatsink, or worse!!, chips that are slightly higher and have the BGA connections compressed and fractured because they get compressed to be at the same hight as the surrounding devices.

Cairnsmore1 uses a similar design, cooling 4 chips (484-BGA I think) with a single heatsink/fan.  Does it have these kind of problems?

I thought the Cairnsmore1 used 4 heatsinks, 1 fan?

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November 01, 2012, 11:59:46 AM
 #414

Potentially a recipe for a manufacturing disaster.

Since there are 8 chips ALL relying on a SINGLE heatsink, a tiny variation in manufacturing could leave the chips at slightly different hights, resulting in chips that may not make contact with the bed of the heatsink, or worse!!, chips that are slightly higher and have the BGA connections compressed and fractured because they get compressed to be at the same hight as the surrounding devices.

Cairnsmore1 uses a similar design, cooling 4 chips (484-BGA I think) with a single heatsink/fan.  Does it have these kind of problems?

I thought the Cairnsmore1 used 4 heatsinks, 1 fan?

The Cairnsmore1 can do 60GH/s ?
Wow I'm glad I did not buy an ASIC..  next you will be telling me that  a .13um design is  better than a 90nm process.........

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November 01, 2012, 12:46:23 PM
 #415

I thought the Cairnsmore1 used 4 heatsinks, 1 fan?
It does - one heatsink per chip, all cooled by a single fan blowing air downwards onto them.

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November 01, 2012, 03:37:13 PM
 #416

I thought the Cairnsmore1 used 4 heatsinks, 1 fan?
It does - one heatsink per chip, all cooled by a single fan blowing air downwards onto them.

Mmm, so it does.  I should have looked more closely at the pics.

To use a different example then, the Radeon GPUs use a single heatsink block to cool quite a few different chips, with "thermal pads" used to help insure firm surface contact and transfer of heat.

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November 01, 2012, 06:10:32 PM
 #417

I thought the Cairnsmore1 used 4 heatsinks, 1 fan?
It does - one heatsink per chip, all cooled by a single fan blowing air downwards onto them.

What a great idea! I guess that's what happens when you actually have experience in the field.

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November 01, 2012, 06:14:33 PM
Last edit: November 01, 2012, 08:35:28 PM by molecular
 #418

Also, what do you guys think about Casascius and Meni Rosenfeld?

I trust these 2 a LOAD more than inaba BitcoinINV / gigavps / pretty much anyone.

but I guess I'm 23 pages late to the game... so who's going?

EDIT: I mixed people up, corrected

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November 02, 2012, 03:02:12 AM
 #419

... so who's going?

Coz the discussion moved on over to the BFL forum.
The result is that Yochdog was chosen from the votes.

I know the result - but haven't heard any news re. visiting BFL labs (not here and not on forums@bfl).

Do you know when Yochdog is going?

Still waiting for firm dates from Josh.  Hoping we get it nailed down soon. 

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November 02, 2012, 04:10:08 AM
 #420

Yochdog and Kano are the ones selected,but no exact info on when,yet  Roll Eyes

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