TYGRR.* assets on GLBSE delisted.

[nimda]

Wow. Thanks to Nefario's behavior, I'm leaving GLBSE. Thanks to MPOE-PR's behavior, I'm never touching MPEX. And cryptostocks lists nothing worth investing in.

 

[1715604690]

1715604690

[markm]

Wow. Thanks to Nefario's behavior, I'm leaving GLBSE. Thanks to MPOE-PR's behavior, I'm never touching MPEX. And cryptostocks lists nothing worth investing in.

 

Install an Open Transactions client... The main reason there is only one Open Transactions server running so far is so few people have a client yet; the more people with clients, the more servers that will spring up to meet the demand...

-MarkM-

[greyhawk]

Phrases in contracts like "in case GLBSE is no longer a viable platform" etc seemed to me overcautious... how ingenuous I am.

Cryptostocks seems nice, but, does anyone know if they are any more reliable?

I've spoken to cryptostocks, asking about enabling a method for assets to move from GLBSE easily to there,  he had no interest.

Cryptostocks will be dead soon anyways. Vircurex foolishly started running an unlicensed lottery. He will have German authorities knocking on his door in no time.

[nedbert9]

Wow. Thanks to Nefario's behavior, I'm leaving GLBSE. Thanks to MPOE-PR's behavior, I'm never touching MPEX. And cryptostocks lists nothing worth investing in.

 

Install an Open Transactions client... The main reason there is only one Open Transactions server running so far is so few people have a client yet; the more people with clients, the more servers that will spring up to meet the demand...

-MarkM-

+100000000o00


Decentralized (somewhat), secure securities trading.  Try it.

Listing a company on a Web site governed by ToS and not a contract, open to centralized risk and stupid browser exploits? 

No, thanks.

[guruvan]

Wow. Thanks to Nefario's behavior, I'm leaving GLBSE. Thanks to MPOE-PR's behavior, I'm never touching MPEX. And cryptostocks lists nothing worth investing in.

 

The big difference? Mircea's & MPOE-PR's behaviours don't affect the amount of money I make, nor the value of the assets I'm holding. On multiple occasions, nefario's behaviour has lost me money.

As a matter of fact, I've seen mircea on IRC quite a bit lately. Looking through the logs, he appears to be his normal (asshole) self...but, despite that, it appears MPEx is making more and more money.

In my experience when someone with greater technical or financial skills point out errors in others' works, they take offense. After repeatedly pointing out the same errors, the person with experience tends toward impatient, as he or she knows that the only reasons for repetition of error is either incompetence, or criminal intent. When the person with skill points out incompetence, or criminal intent with impatience, invariably, "asshole" is the description.

By the above logic, I believe, you're correct in stating mircea is an asshole. And this is why I sent him 20BTC....I paid that for risk avoidance (well, and some lulz now and again)

Money well spent. Come to think of it...I pay Mircea to be an asshole. He does a great job

See, and now nefario is trying to legitimize his platform, but he's ignoring the people who've brought his platform to be what it is, and, judging from the number of people I've seen withdrawing money, and bailing on GLBSE, that's not working out so well for him. But, then....he caused values of shares on his exchange to drop in value through his personal actions (which do not enjoy the support of all the GLBSE shareholders) I can only see this as the actions of an ass. And that's not who I want holding my wealth.

[vmg3]

nefario and goat are both acting like children, having a mudfight on the backs of their customers. I'm disappointed in both.

+1

[Bitcoin Oz]

Wow. Thanks to Nefario's behavior, I'm leaving GLBSE. Thanks to MPOE-PR's behavior, I'm never touching MPEX. And cryptostocks lists nothing worth investing in.

 

The big difference? Mircea's & MPOE-PR's behaviours don't affect the amount of money I make, nor the value of the assets I'm holding. On multiple occasions, nefario's behaviour has lost me money.

As a matter of fact, I've seen mircea on IRC quite a bit lately. Looking through the logs, he appears to be his normal (asshole) self...but, despite that, it appears MPEx is making more and more money.

In my experience when someone with greater technical or financial skills point out errors in others' works, they take offense. After repeatedly pointing out the same errors, the person with experience tends toward impatient, as he or she knows that the only reasons for repetition of error is either incompetence, or criminal intent. When the person with skill points out incompetence, or criminal intent with impatience, invariably, "asshole" is the description.

By the above logic, I believe, you're correct in stating mircea is an asshole. And this is why I sent him 20BTC....I paid that for risk avoidance (well, and some lulz now and again)

Money well spent. Come to think of it...I pay Mircea to be an asshole. He does a great job

See, and now nefario is trying to legitimize his platform, but he's ignoring the people who've brought his platform to be what it is, and, judging from the number of people I've seen withdrawing money, and bailing on GLBSE, that's not working out so well for him. But, then....he caused values of shares on his exchange to drop in value through his personal actions (which do not enjoy the support of all the GLBSE shareholders) I can only see this as the actions of an ass. And that's not who I want holding my wealth.

A pink sheets market is possible with bitcoin but you need qualified financial brokers doing it not the general public, since only qualified financial advisors can hold stock broking licenses. You cant sell shares directly to the public as all of the bitcoin stock exchanges currently do and this is where the problem begins.

[Cryptostocks]

I tend to avoid commenting on emotion loaded threads such as this, because hardly ever anything good comes from it. Nevertheless, as Cryptostocks was refered to several times, it's time to speak up.

Cryptostocks seems nice, but, does anyone know if they are any more reliable?

Our concept is to have as little regulation as necessary on security listings, other than legality of the business model (drugs, weapons, etc. or for obvious reasons not allowed). It shouldn't be the Exchange's responsibility to judge financial viability of securities. It's the investor's right and obligation to do so, it's the investors decision in what he wants to invest it, it's the investors decision on whom to trust and whom not to trust. A verification system with various levels is available for each and every security issuer to choose from. If you don't want to be verified, then don't, but this is transparent to the community. Going forward we'll put in a rating system that highlights if or not a security is currently in violation of its contract terms, i.e. its not to be considered a buying or selling recommendation but merely another indicator to consider in the investor's decision making process.

I've spoken to cryptostocks, asking about enabling a method for assets to move from GLBSE easily to there,  he had no interest.

The "no interest" is in respect to "take all securities that get bumped of GLBSE". Before we mass migrate securities, I'ld like to get a better understanding on why they are being delisted. If it is only about ToS and verification, then those securities are more than welcome, if it is about proven ponzi schemes and frauds, then needless to say that Cryptostocks doesn't want them either.
As I mentioned above, in general anyone is welcome to list a security. If you need a new home for your security, contact me and I am sure we (Cryptostocks, GLBSE and the security issuer) can work out a workable solution in the interest of the shareholders.

Cryptostocks will be dead soon anyways. Vircurex foolishly started running an unlicensed lottery. He will have German authorities knocking on his door in no time.

https://dvc-lotto.com (sorry, couldn't resist putting the link here) is as much licensed as probably almost all other Bitcoin gambling and lottery related sites. The difference is that we don't run our own random generator (which is for obvious reasons prone to criticism) but use the output of the German lottery system as the our lottery result input. Neither us nor our hosting equipment is located in Germany (not even Europe) as such most likely not of interest to German authorities. On what ground would they be? Because we use their lottery numbers?

[markm]

A pink sheets market is possible with bitcoin but you need qualified financial brokers doing it not the general public, since only qualified financial advisors can hold stock broking licenses. You cant sell shares directly to the public as all of the bitcoin stock exchanges currently do and this is where the problem begins.

Does this mean that unlike the proliferation of forex sites, there are no sites I can go to and just buy myself some stocks/shares without having to get ahold of a broker in chat or email or something and chat with the broker about my needs so the broker can decide whether they consider me a fit person to sell stocks to?

I do like the idea of brokers actually as a person who runs one or more Open Transactions servers. It seems to me it would be great to have brokers to point at any time anyone claims Open Transactions is "not for grandmothers" and tell them hey go get one of those brokers in videochat tell them what you want send them money and whether they use Open Transactions or the New York Stock Exchange or the Toronto Stock Exchange or an Excell spreadsheet is all on their side not yours, you just talk to the nice broker and dont' worry your head about those kinds of details...

-MarkM=

[Bitcoin Oz]

A pink sheets market is possible with bitcoin but you need qualified financial brokers doing it not the general public, since only qualified financial advisors can hold stock broking licenses. You cant sell shares directly to the public as all of the bitcoin stock exchanges currently do and this is where the problem begins.

Does this mean that unlike the proliferation of forex sites, there are no sites I can go to and just buy myself some stocks/shares without having to get ahold of a broker in chat or email or something and chat with the broker about my needs so the broker can decide whether they consider me a fit person to sell stocks to?

I do like the idea of brokers actually as a person who runs one or more Open Transactions servers. It seems to me it would be great to have brokers to point at any time anyone claims Open Transactions is "not for grandmothers" and tell them hey go get one of those brokers in videochat tell them what you want send them money and whether they use Open Transactions or the New York Stock Exchange or the Toronto Stock Exchange or an Excell spreadsheet is all on their side not yours, you just talk to the nice broker and dont' worry your head about those kinds of details...

-MarkM=

In a nutshell, yes.

A pink sheets otc market is people who are  brokers trading amongst each other. It is not the general public trading shares. Its the same reason you need a share broker to trade on any stock exchange. You can have either ones who provide advice or ones who just do the buying for you without providing advice. A broker that provides financial advice as well needs a whole other level of registration and regulation.

Glbse could be a registered company and have stockbrokers who dont offer any financial advice they just buy the shares on offer. And theres is fuck all the SEC can do about it, since they allow pink sheets.

[memvola]

But thats not fair to me and other asset holders! We agree,it's not fair to holders of this asset, to other issers [sic], asset holders and GLBSE itself. Delisting is a last measure when trying to deal with problematic asset issuers who are actively trying to damage GLBSE. We have a responsibility to all asset issuers and asset holders on GLBSE, if any one person is doing something that puts everyone else at risk, including GLBSE operators then they have to leave. This is a market we all share, for it to work we must all play nice.

Nefario, I think we're entitled to an explanation of why we weren't given any prior notice. I think you know there is a problem with your action, gathering from the fact that you only respond to trolls here and prefer to answer us users through a notice on GLBSE.

[Uglux]

I tend to avoid commenting on emotion loaded threads such as this, because hardly ever anything good comes from it. Nevertheless, as Cryptostocks was refered to several times, it's time to speak up.

Cryptostocks seems nice, but, does anyone know if they are any more reliable?

Our concept is to have as little regulation as necessary on security listings, other than legality of the business model (drugs, weapons, etc. or for obvious reasons not allowed). It shouldn't be the Exchange's responsibility to judge financial viability of securities. It's the investor's right and obligation to do so, it's the investors decision in what he wants to invest it, it's the investors decision on whom to trust and whom not to trust. A verification system with various levels is available for each and every security issuer to choose from. If you don't want to be verified, then don't, but this is transparent to the community. Going forward we'll put in a rating system that highlights if or not a security is currently in violation of its contract terms, i.e. its not to be considered a buying or selling recommendation but merely another indicator to consider in the investor's decision making process.

I've spoken to cryptostocks, asking about enabling a method for assets to move from GLBSE easily to there, he had no interest.

The "no interest" is in respect to "take all securities that get bumped of GLBSE". Before we mass migrate securities, I'ld like to get a better understanding on why they are being delisted. If it is only about ToS and verification, then those securities are more than welcome, if it is about proven ponzi schemes and frauds, then needless to say that Cryptostocks doesn't want them either.
As I mentioned above, in general anyone is welcome to list a security. If you need a new home for your security, contact me and I am sure we (Cryptostocks, GLBSE and the security issuer) can work out a workable solution in the interest of the shareholders.

Thank you.
Cryptostocks might be small at the moment, but it seems to improve quite fast and in a good direction.  A Developer Log for example is a good thing. Although the biggest hurdle of leaving the uncertain status to become legitimate, is likely still to come. GLBSE might be the giant here, but their developement is a bit slow, almost as if it is a one man show, sorry. At some point, nefario has to pursue division of labor even more, so that he can concentrate on more important things than goatshitstorms.
Improving communication would be another good step. An E-Mail or a message within its own message system about the fee change for example or even the plan to register in the UK, would have been very pleasant (i know, captain hindsight ). It feels like this forum has become to much of a platform for haters with to much free time. Of course, it is open for everyone (good thing) and every thought, in a lot of crazy minds (which is also a good thing, because some of those crazy new thoughts might be the best sometimes). But filtering useful information takes more and more time... So leave the forum for brainshitstorming and communicate more with your own platform please.
MPOE might be "succesful" until now, but I think they are doomed for isolation in the long run, since they show nothing but ignorance towards complains.
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."

[Akka]

I personally have no problem that GLBSE delists some assets. IMO, they even have to delist some assets.

I only have a problem with they way this was handled. This seems really unprofessional.

A Professional solution would have been (could still be) (IMO, of course):

• Notify Goat that his assets will be delisted, give him one week time to work out a exit strategy.
• After that week make a public notification or a user notification on GLBSE, with a link to a thread where Goat has a chance to present his exit strategy
• Give him at least 3 Weeks Time for his exit

Why has this to be done so suddenly?
This precedent that any asset could be kicked of immediately, if the issuer just pissed you off enough may give some people a uneasy feeling.

[el_rlee]

queerly, and late. Now, such actions on assets Goats do not seem logical.

So we should do nothing then?

That's what you did with all the PPT's when pirate defaulted. Highly toxic that time, you didn't give a fuck.

[flower1024]

I personally have no problem that GLBSE delists some assets. IMO, they even have to delist some assets.

I only have a problem with they way this was handled. This seems really unprofessional.

A Professional solution would have been (could still be) (IMO, of course):

• Notify Goat that his assets will be delisted, give him one week time to work out a exit strategy.
• After that week make a public notification or a user notification on GLBSE, with a link to a thread where Goat has a chance to present his exit strategy
• Give him at least 3 Weeks Time for his exit

Why has this to be done so suddenly?
This precedent that any asset could be kicked of immediately, if the issuer just pissed you off enough may give some people a uneasy feeling.

what i dont like about this is:
 - whoever sees that message first (this includes bond issuer) has the opportunity to sell all at a (relative) high price
 - if someone does not want to sell his assets they are stolen

this could even be used to scam people.

open a ponzi like asset
wait for glbse to close it
profit for bond issuer because he decided his exit strategy is "people: sell all of your shares"

i dont think there should be any way a market place can delist an asset EXCEPT no one (except issuer) holds shares.

[HorseRider]

Thank you.
Cryptostocks might be small at the moment, but it seems to improve quite fast and in a good direction.  A Developer Log for example is a good thing. Although the biggest hurdle of leaving the uncertain status to become legitimate, is likely still to come.

I think having several bitcoin stock exchanges with different legal status regulation level is good for the community. Nefario is trying to make a great contribution for the bitcoin capital market by make it legitimate, while we can still have other less regulated/free stock market. Maybe GLBSE is where we are able to buy a real and legitimate company's stake through the payment methods of bitcoin and priced in bitcoin and whose big 4 audited financial report's currency unit is bitcoin!  

However, we need free and unregulated stock exchanges for the bitcoin economy. It is the spirit of bitcoin concept. Bitcoin means that if you want regulation you can have regulation, but if you don't want it the regulation will be able to removed. NASDAQ, pink sheet and NYSE, they are serving different companies, and investors can use all of them to seek investment opportunities.  I  I will invest on the both GLBSE and CS.

Maybe even one day we will have a stock exchange behind the Tor. 100% free, 100% illegal in the eyes of SEC. As long as the scammers will be scamming, but people will learn. And the honest people gaining trust/credibility over time.

[HorseRider]

what i dont like about this is:
 - whoever sees that message first (this includes bond issuer) has the opportunity to sell all at a (relative) high price

that's why before publishing such message there usually will be a suspension of trading for half or one day in the traditional exchange.

[flower1024]

what i dont like about this is:
 - whoever sees that message first (this includes bond issuer) has the opportunity to sell all at a (relative) high price

that's why before publishing such message there usually will be a suspension of trading for half or one day in the traditional exchange.

this could work,

but what stops the issuer to simply say "operation closed" (of course: if he has a buyback clause this wouldnt work, but without it seems to be a good way for easy money)?

[Akka]

I personally have no problem that GLBSE delists some assets. IMO, they even have to delist some assets.

I only have a problem with they way this was handled. This seems really unprofessional.

A Professional solution would have been (could still be) (IMO, of course):

• Notify Goat that his assets will be delisted, give him one week time to work out a exit strategy.
• After that week make a public notification or a user notification on GLBSE, with a link to a thread where Goat has a chance to present his exit strategy
• Give him at least 3 Weeks Time for his exit

Why has this to be done so suddenly?
This precedent that any asset could be kicked of immediately, if the issuer just pissed you off enough may give some people a uneasy feeling.

what i dont like about this is:
 - whoever sees that message first (this includes bond issuer) has the opportunity to sell all at a (relative) high price
 - if someone does not want to sell his assets they are stolen

this could even be used to scam people.

open a ponzi like asset
wait for glbse to close it
profit for bond issuer because he decided his exit strategy is "people: sell all of your shares"

i dont think there should be any way a market place can delist an asset EXCEPT no one (except issuer) holds shares.

Where did I say, that the exit strategy will be set in stone because the issuer says so? He still has to stay by his contract (so nobody gets shares stolen, no profit for the issuer by saying shareholder have to do as he says). But he could buyback shares according to contract or make arrangements with another exchange (for example.)

Still better than Nefario just hitting a Killswitch

[flower1024]

Where did I say, that the exit strategy will be set in stone because the issuer says so? He still has to stay by his contract (so nobody gets shares stolen, no profit for the issuer by saying shareholder have to do as he says). But he could buyback shares according to contract or make arrangements with another exchange (for example.)

you are right.
even if glbse delist his asset the issuer still has to honor his contract.
its just not easy to see if he really does.

Still better than Nefario just hitting a Killswitch

+1