My criticism of BitCoin

[d5000]

Nobody said it was necessarily more efficient.  Securing the network through proof-of-work is
the cost of a decentralized currency.  Some people say proof of stake is more efficient
but still others say distributed consensus by proof of stake is impossible (and I agree).

That's a valid argument, but I don't agree. I know there are theoretical attack scenarios on Proof of Stake (Nothing@Stake attack, particularly), but for now, there was never a proof that such an attack is practically possible.

For example, Vitalik Buterin, a well-known cryptocurrency expert, has become increasingly positive about Proof of Stake. For example, in this blog post he explains how a PoS algorithm with similar security to PoW can be designed.

[dollarneed]

Let me give my some opinion about your argument

I dont like BitCoin for these reasons:

1. The whole idea that someone can turn on his computer/GPU and "bit mine" and earn money is ridiculous.
People should earn money when they work hard for it. Turning on a computer and leaving it to run does not and should not count.
This is a waste of electricity as well and therefore it causes greenhouse gases and has a carbon footprint.

1. In this globalization and mobilization you should not working with your body but with your brain,for example if you working at a factory which totally automatic robot do you think is not a work?

2. One would think they came up with a new currency system so theft could be prevented. No, BC gets stolen all the time.
Why couldn't they "disable" the serial numbers of the currency that was stolen? Thats the kind of system that should have been designed.

2. Just because there is no system is safe it does not mean your bitcoin would be stolen. If your bitcoin was stolen you exactly not learn about bitcoin,just know how it works and keep it safe

3. BC is unstable. People lost a lot of money (one tiny example; there are probably hundreds and thousands) and they did nothing wrong. A good modern currency should not have this defect.
....

3.I think Bitcoin currently is not a currency,for me its more as aset and simply payment procesor.

[shorena]

2. One would think they came up with a new currency system so theft could be prevented. No, BC gets stolen all the time.
Why couldn't they "disable" the serial numbers of the currency that was stolen? Thats the kind of system that should have been designed.

Ultimately I think this may prevent Bitcoin from being widely adopted. That doesn't mean it can't continue to exist as a niche system. But, the average person is willing to pay a certain amount, to a credit card for example, in order to be able to have customer support (i.e., insurance) in the event of theft.

What makes you think that "the average person" (whoever that is) is willing to pay extra? I see constant examples (even here) where people have no idea how expensive credit cards are and how every customers pays more for every item in a store that is accepting credit card payments. On top of that people are constantly in pursuit of "free" services where the only price you pay is that the provider spies on you can sells the information to advertising companies. While its a perfectly fine way to finance something, I dont think most people using a service like google are aware of the price they pay.

With all that being said I think bitcoin is actually capable of enabling a service to provide transparent insurance of your coins (for an extra ofc). E.g. some of the treasurers for the board secure a part of its funds for a fee.

My credit card cost less then $10 a year. No fee when i use it. That $10 include an incurance from theft. Reduced prices in a lot of stores and chargeback in case of a seller not delivering. The bitcoin is the currency with extra payment.

Thanks for making my point[1]. You pay the hidden costs you are just not aware.

-snip-
If i recive money trough Paypal it is also in dollar and i can send it to my bank who convert it much cheaper but not free. Yet....

If the [CreditCard] fee is passed to you, it is 2.9% plus $0.30 USD of the amount you receive. For example, if you are sent $100.00 USD by credit card, the fee would be $3.20 USD ($2.90 + $0.30).

Source[2].

The same example with bitcoin: 100 USD worth of bitcoin at current market price of 288 USD/BTC is 100/288 =~0.3472 BTC which can transfered easily with a fee of 0.0001 or even 0.00001. Lets take the higher fee. This leaves us at an USD valued fee of 0.0001 * 288 =~0.0288 or 2.88 centUSD which makes paypal in compination with a creditcard over 100 times more expensive. You also pay with your personal information and your user profile which is resold to advertising companies by paypal as well as credit card companies.

[1] http://www.cardfellow.com/blog/average-fees-for-credit-card-processing/#Typical
[2] https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/helpcenter/helphub/article/?solutionId=FAQ690

[Hopalong]

2. One would think they came up with a new currency system so theft could be prevented. No, BC gets stolen all the time.
Why couldn't they "disable" the serial numbers of the currency that was stolen? Thats the kind of system that should have been designed.

Ultimately I think this may prevent Bitcoin from being widely adopted. That doesn't mean it can't continue to exist as a niche system. But, the average person is willing to pay a certain amount, to a credit card for example, in order to be able to have customer support (i.e., insurance) in the event of theft.

What makes you think that "the average person" (whoever that is) is willing to pay extra? I see constant examples (even here) where people have no idea how expensive credit cards are and how every customers pays more for every item in a store that is accepting credit card payments. On top of that people are constantly in pursuit of "free" services where the only price you pay is that the provider spies on you can sells the information to advertising companies. While its a perfectly fine way to finance something, I dont think most people using a service like google are aware of the price they pay.

With all that being said I think bitcoin is actually capable of enabling a service to provide transparent insurance of your coins (for an extra ofc). E.g. some of the treasurers for the board secure a part of its funds for a fee.

My credit card cost less then $10 a year. No fee when i use it. That $10 include an incurance from theft. Reduced prices in a lot of stores and chargeback in case of a seller not delivering. The bitcoin is the currency with extra payment.

You are conveniently leaving out the 3-5% fee the credit card companies charge the merchants for accepting that piece of plastic. Why do you think some gas stations offer 3-4% discounts for cash, or cash equivalent users? You may not see the fee directly, but it sure as heck is passed on to you when the merchant if setting his prices. Even if they do not charge a noticeable fee or offer a cash discount, the CC fees are just spread out amongst all users, but in no way are they free or even cheap.

Are you stupid or something? I guess so. I dont get a discount for paying cash. I get a discount for using my card.

Myself, I often find that using insults in place of a proper rebuttal is a more telling indicator of intelligence.

As far as your discount, my point is that merchants have to absorb the fees to accept credit cards in the first place. In some cases they will offer cash customers discounts to offset these fees. What you are describing is using merchants who simply absorb the fees across the board and pass it along to all customers.

Here is an example, a merchant accept CCs and has a contract to pay the processor a monthly flat fee, say $100 and then 3.5% on all transactions. He also decides to make it easier he will simply spread this cost amongst all customers instead of just a CC ones, a common practice. One particular item he buys wholesale for $45 and he decides if he can sell if for $75 he will offset his cost and make a profit. One of those costs is the CC processing fee. In this example the CC cost would be $2.62 for this particular purchase. So when he was figuring out his profit margins, that cost was taken into account and applied when he set the price.

In simpler terms, the price of the item was set to $2.62 higher than the merchant would need to if he simply accepted cash or payments that didn't require a processing fee. So even when you believe you are getting a discount using your CC, this belief is false as you paid a higher hidden fee.

All this really requires is a bit of common sense, as CC companies surely aren't in business to give money away. The rewards and discounts are more than offset by the fees, hidden or otherwise, that the users pay.

How many times do you need to repeat a lie to make a false statement?

When i buy something it has a fixed price. The cash people pay that fixed price and me with my card get a discount. The merchants dont want cash since they have to transport it t the bank and have a lot of security to avoid beig robed.

The merchants is the ones who want me to use my card. For them it is fast and easy.

I guess you are american by you statements. The US is around 10 years behind in adopting new tech and think they are so advanced.

[Hopalong]

2. One would think they came up with a new currency system so theft could be prevented. No, BC gets stolen all the time.
Why couldn't they "disable" the serial numbers of the currency that was stolen? Thats the kind of system that should have been designed.

Ultimately I think this may prevent Bitcoin from being widely adopted. That doesn't mean it can't continue to exist as a niche system. But, the average person is willing to pay a certain amount, to a credit card for example, in order to be able to have customer support (i.e., insurance) in the event of theft.

What makes you think that "the average person" (whoever that is) is willing to pay extra? I see constant examples (even here) where people have no idea how expensive credit cards are and how every customers pays more for every item in a store that is accepting credit card payments. On top of that people are constantly in pursuit of "free" services where the only price you pay is that the provider spies on you can sells the information to advertising companies. While its a perfectly fine way to finance something, I dont think most people using a service like google are aware of the price they pay.

With all that being said I think bitcoin is actually capable of enabling a service to provide transparent insurance of your coins (for an extra ofc). E.g. some of the treasurers for the board secure a part of its funds for a fee.

My credit card cost less then $10 a year. No fee when i use it. That $10 include an incurance from theft. Reduced prices in a lot of stores and chargeback in case of a seller not delivering. The bitcoin is the currency with extra payment.

Thanks for making my point[1]. You pay the hidden costs you are just not aware.

-snip-
If i recive money trough Paypal it is also in dollar and i can send it to my bank who convert it much cheaper but not free. Yet....

If the [CreditCard] fee is passed to you, it is 2.9% plus $0.30 USD of the amount you receive. For example, if you are sent $100.00 USD by credit card, the fee would be $3.20 USD ($2.90 + $0.30).

Source[2].

The same example with bitcoin: 100 USD worth of bitcoin at current market price of 288 USD/BTC is 100/288 =~0.3472 BTC which can transfered easily with a fee of 0.0001 or even 0.00001. Lets take the higher fee. This leaves us at an USD valued fee of 0.0001 * 288 =~0.0288 or 2.88 centUSD which makes paypal in compination with a creditcard over 100 times more expensive. You also pay with your personal information and your user profile which is resold to advertising companies by paypal as well as credit card companies.

[1] http://www.cardfellow.com/blog/average-fees-for-credit-card-processing/#Typical
[2] https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/helpcenter/helphub/article/?solutionId=FAQ690

Do actally think i use paypal very often when i can send money everywhere for free with bank transfer or my card. The only time i use paypal if it is no way to use my normal ways of transfer. That happens a couple of times every decade....


And why do you think no fee means hidden fee? When i use my card to send money across the border i get an SMS from the bank with the amount drawn from the card. That amount is always the same as the one i just payed. I also get every transaction on a monthly and yearly basis from my bank. I have total controll of how my money is spent.

This is quite normal in europe...

If my bank start to charge me fees i dont want to pay i change bank. So does a lot of customers so every bank has to lower the fees.

[Elwar]

I dont like BitCoin for these reasons:

1. The whole idea that someone can turn on his computer/GPU and "bit mine" and earn money is ridiculous.
People should earn money when they work hard for it. Turning on a computer and leaving it to run does not and should not count.
This is a waste of electricity as well and therefore it causes greenhouse gases and has a carbon footprint.

2. One would think they came up with a new currency system so theft could be prevented. No, BC gets stolen all the time.
Why couldn't they "disable" the serial numbers of the currency that was stolen? Thats the kind of system that should have been designed.

3. BC is unstable. People lost a lot of money (one tiny example; there are probably hundreds and thousands) and they did nothing wrong. A good modern currency should not have this defect.

It does have positive points which is why many people are using it but it would have been nice if it didnt have the above problems.

One would think if a new digital currency was created it wouldnt have issues like this. Computers and software are so powerful now. It should have been possible to design a currency with none of the issues above.

"Then dont use it" Or "Why dont you make your own currency system?"
These are not valid responses so they shouldnt be said here.

I think you should seriously stick with fiat currency. It seems more up your alley. Everyone knows that's not going anywhere. Trust your government to do what's right.

[n2004al]

I dont like BitCoin for these reasons:

1. The whole idea that someone can turn on his computer/GPU and "bit mine" and earn money is ridiculous.
People should earn money when they work hard for it. Turning on a computer and leaving it to run does not and should not count.
This is a waste of electricity as well and therefore it causes greenhouse gases and has a carbon footprint.

2. One would think they came up with a new currency system so theft could be prevented. No, BC gets stolen all the time.
Why couldn't they "disable" the serial numbers of the currency that was stolen? Thats the kind of system that should have been designed.

3. BC is unstable. People lost a lot of money (one tiny example; there are probably hundreds and thousands) and they did nothing wrong. A good modern currency should not have this defect.

It does have positive points which is why many people are using it but it would have been nice if it didnt have the above problems.

One would think if a new digital currency was created it wouldnt have issues like this. Computers and software are so powerful now. It should have been possible to design a currency with none of the issues above.

"Then dont use it" Or "Why dont you make your own currency system?"
These are not valid responses so they shouldnt be said here.

I think you should seriously stick with fiat currency. It seems more up your alley. Everyone knows that's not going anywhere. Trust your government to do what's right.

That's correct. Bitcoin doesn't made for you. Better the fiat money. Bitcoin is something that can be love or cannot. If you like it you will love it. If not forget it and do something else. But not make complaints if someday someone with 10 bitcoins maybe will be rich.

[madonnino]

I dont like BitCoin for these reasons:

1. The whole idea that someone can turn on his computer/GPU and "bit mine" and earn money is ridiculous.
People should earn money when they work hard for it. Turning on a computer and leaving it to run does not and should not count.
This is a waste of electricity as well and therefore it causes greenhouse gases and has a carbon footprint.

2. One would think they came up with a new currency system so theft could be prevented. No, BC gets stolen all the time.
Why couldn't they "disable" the serial numbers of the currency that was stolen? Thats the kind of system that should have been designed.

3. BC is unstable. People lost a lot of money (one tiny example; there are probably hundreds and thousands) and they did nothing wrong. A good modern currency should not have this defect.

It does have positive points which is why many people are using it but it would have been nice if it didnt have the above problems.

One would think if a new digital currency was created it wouldnt have issues like this. Computers and software are so powerful now. It should have been possible to design a currency with none of the issues above.

"Then dont use it" Or "Why dont you make your own currency system?"
These are not valid responses so they shouldnt be said here.

before speaking out of turn at least you should know the subject . From what I read here there is a problem

[Elwar]

Also, it is usually an easy giveaway of someone who has no clue when they call it BitCoin or Bit Coin.

[HCLivess]

Try NXT

[Elwar]

Try NXT

Or Freicoin.

Or BBQcoin

[jwcastle]

I like bitcoin for what it represents, but there are a few things that make it so very undesirable.

 There's a history of loss and scams with bitcoin (e.g. Mt gox, vaporware mining hardware)
 You don't know who to trust. If you say do your own research, I'll slap you. If I go to a Wells Fargo bank, do I have to do my own research to know if my money will be safe there? Even if I go to a local no-name bank, I can still be assured that the bank is legit.
 It's digital currency that is usually sent and received on the internet and mostly untraceable. It's like sending cash to someone's PO box. If something goes wrong, there's no way to recover your bitcoins/cash.

[achow101]

I like bitcoin for what it represents, but there are a few things that make it so very undesirable.

 There's a history of loss and scams with bitcoin (e.g. Mt gox, vaporware mining hardware)
 You don't know who to trust. If you say do your own research, I'll slap you. If I go to a Wells Fargo bank, do I have to do my own research to know if my money will be safe there? Even if I go to a local no-name bank, I can still be assured that the bank is legit.
 It's digital currency that is usually sent and received on the internet and mostly untraceable. It's like sending cash to someone's PO box. If something goes wrong, there's no way to recover your bitcoins/cash.

There is also a history of scams and hacks with fiat money. Every time you give someone your credit card, you are trusting them not to steal your credit card info or that their security is good enough to prevent hacks. Places that let you buy with wire transfers, you are trusting them to not run away with your money. With investments, you still need to do your research when using fiat or you could get scammed like Madoff did to many people.

[Amph]

I like bitcoin for what it represents, but there are a few things that make it so very undesirable.

 There's a history of loss and scams with bitcoin (e.g. Mt gox, vaporware mining hardware)
 You don't know who to trust. If you say do your own research, I'll slap you. If I go to a Wells Fargo bank, do I have to do my own research to know if my money will be safe there? Even if I go to a local no-name bank, I can still be assured that the bank is legit.
 It's digital currency that is usually sent and received on the internet and mostly untraceable. It's like sending cash to someone's PO box. If something goes wrong, there's no way to recover your bitcoins/cash.

because bitcoin was meant to be secured at your home in your local wallet not on some shady random exchange, bitcoin it goes against everything that is a third party like securing in a bank or whatever

if you can't follow this simple rule bitcoin isn't for you, personally i love this, i've always wanted to manage 100% my fund instead of rely on someone else, in fact my fiat money were always at home

[shorena]

2. One would think they came up with a new currency system so theft could be prevented. No, BC gets stolen all the time.
Why couldn't they "disable" the serial numbers of the currency that was stolen? Thats the kind of system that should have been designed.

Ultimately I think this may prevent Bitcoin from being widely adopted. That doesn't mean it can't continue to exist as a niche system. But, the average person is willing to pay a certain amount, to a credit card for example, in order to be able to have customer support (i.e., insurance) in the event of theft.

What makes you think that "the average person" (whoever that is) is willing to pay extra? I see constant examples (even here) where people have no idea how expensive credit cards are and how every customers pays more for every item in a store that is accepting credit card payments. On top of that people are constantly in pursuit of "free" services where the only price you pay is that the provider spies on you can sells the information to advertising companies. While its a perfectly fine way to finance something, I dont think most people using a service like google are aware of the price they pay.

With all that being said I think bitcoin is actually capable of enabling a service to provide transparent insurance of your coins (for an extra ofc). E.g. some of the treasurers for the board secure a part of its funds for a fee.

My credit card cost less then $10 a year. No fee when i use it. That $10 include an incurance from theft. Reduced prices in a lot of stores and chargeback in case of a seller not delivering. The bitcoin is the currency with extra payment.

Thanks for making my point[1]. You pay the hidden costs you are just not aware.

-snip-
If i recive money trough Paypal it is also in dollar and i can send it to my bank who convert it much cheaper but not free. Yet....

If the [CreditCard] fee is passed to you, it is 2.9% plus $0.30 USD of the amount you receive. For example, if you are sent $100.00 USD by credit card, the fee would be $3.20 USD ($2.90 + $0.30).

Source[2].

The same example with bitcoin: 100 USD worth of bitcoin at current market price of 288 USD/BTC is 100/288 =~0.3472 BTC which can transfered easily with a fee of 0.0001 or even 0.00001. Lets take the higher fee. This leaves us at an USD valued fee of 0.0001 * 288 =~0.0288 or 2.88 centUSD which makes paypal in compination with a creditcard over 100 times more expensive. You also pay with your personal information and your user profile which is resold to advertising companies by paypal as well as credit card companies.

[1] http://www.cardfellow.com/blog/average-fees-for-credit-card-processing/#Typical
[2] https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/helpcenter/helphub/article/?solutionId=FAQ690

Do actally think i use paypal very often when i can send money everywhere for free with bank transfer or my card. The only time i use paypal if it is no way to use my normal ways of transfer. That happens a couple of times every decade....


And why do you think no fee means hidden fee? When i use my card to send money across the border i get an SMS from the bank with the amount drawn from the card. That amount is always the same as the one i just payed. I also get every transaction on a monthly and yearly basis from my bank. I have total controll of how my money is spent.

This is quite normal in europe...

If my bank start to charge me fees i dont want to pay i change bank. So does a lot of customers so every bank has to lower the fees.

The products you buy are more expensive because the vendor accepts credit cards. If you cant follow the logic that CC companies charges a vendor and as a consequence the vendor charges you more for the products I cant help you.

[bitcoinmasterlord]

I dont like BitCoin for these reasons:

1. The whole idea that someone can turn on his computer/GPU and "bit mine" and earn money is ridiculous.
People should earn money when they work hard for it. Turning on a computer and leaving it to run does not and should not count.
This is a waste of electricity as well and therefore it causes greenhouse gases and has a carbon footprint.

Will you tell that the banks too that run hundreds of computers to make the banking system run? Or do you think they deserve to earn something for their service?

2. One would think they came up with a new currency system so theft could be prevented. No, BC gets stolen all the time.
Why couldn't they "disable" the serial numbers of the currency that was stolen? Thats the kind of system that should have been designed.

So? Then it would be similar to paypal? The only difference would be that now legit sellers could be scammed by buyers that claim they did not receive their item. You would need to have a centralized agency that decides who is right. Who would that be? Why don't you see the risk? Governments could easily bring the currency down that way.

3. BC is unstable. People lost a lot of money (one tiny example; there are probably hundreds and thousands) and they did nothing wrong. A good modern currency should not have this defect.

So? Surely you know that all fiat currencies have inflation and lose value every year. Only because bitcoin is so small at the moment it is so volatile. That will change once more adoption happened.

And again, who should make the coin stable? A central agency? Would mean a point of attack.

It does have positive points which is why many people are using it but it would have been nice if it didnt have the above problems.

One would think if a new digital currency was created it wouldnt have issues like this. Computers and software are so powerful now. It should have been possible to design a currency with none of the issues above.

"Then dont use it" Or "Why dont you make your own currency system?"
These are not valid responses so they shouldnt be said here.

You might use NuBits. They hold the value of the coin at a value of $1 artificially.

[umaOuma]

I dont like BitCoin for these reasons:

1. The whole idea that someone can turn on his computer/GPU and "bit mine" and earn money is ridiculous.
People should earn money when they work hard for it. Turning on a computer and leaving it to run does not and should not count.
This is a waste of electricity as well and therefore it causes greenhouse gases and has a carbon footprint.

2. One would think they came up with a new currency system so theft could be prevented. No, BC gets stolen all the time.
Why couldn't they "disable" the serial numbers of the currency that was stolen? Thats the kind of system that should have been designed.

3. BC is unstable. People lost a lot of money (one tiny example; there are probably hundreds and thousands) and they did nothing wrong. A good modern currency should not have this defect.

It does have positive points which is why many people are using it but it would have been nice if it didnt have the above problems.

One would think if a new digital currency was created it wouldnt have issues like this. Computers and software are so powerful now. It should have been possible to design a currency with none of the issues above.

"Then dont use it" Or "Why dont you make your own currency system?"
These are not valid responses so they shouldnt be said here.

I think you should seriously stick with fiat currency. It seems more up your alley. Everyone knows that's not going anywhere. Trust your government to do what's right.

That's correct. Bitcoin doesn't made for you. Better the fiat money. Bitcoin is something that can be love or cannot. If you like it you will love it. If not forget it and do something else. But not make complaints if someday someone with 10 bitcoins maybe will be rich.

Exactly it is an individual decision whether to love it or hate it, But you cannot blame others in the future if they get rich with a small amount of bitcoins rather then blaming your own decision to quit.
The only problem with bitcoin is the price unstability and that is the reason why people thinks that it is risky to invest in bitcoins. Either it would make you super rich or else with nothing in hand. Choice is yours