why you shouldn't trade Bitcoin

[rivoke]

I usually convert bitcoin into local currency rather trade it into altcoin. But not all of them ofcourse.
I want to keep some of them as my investation

What jammyjimbo says.

Please let me copy an earlier reply to a similar statement:

(some people advocating hodling, as if that were to help Bitcoin grow)

No, no, NO! As a strong bullish long-term Bitcoin believer, I completely disagree  

Even if you consider your bitcoins as long term investment, rather than spending money - what do you think will help raising the value of your precious bitcoins more:

• 1. Hodling your bitcoins and spending USD, thus only stimulating the USD economy
  
  or
  
  

• 2. Spending your bitcoins, thus stimulating the BTC economy, and immediately buying back new bitcoins (on exchange or circle or whatever), thus increasing demand for Bitcoin on the market.

Notice that the end result is the same: you essentially purchased some stuff, lost some USD, and kept your BTC. But with option nr. 2, you're actively helping to raise the Bitcoin price level on two ends: Bitcoin economy AND market demand. I really don't understand why even the most fanatic Bitcoin owners don't seem to get this

Especially if you're a Bitcoin fan, believer, enthusiast, investor, or hodler, SPEND THEM! (And immediately refill your stash of bitcoins by buying new ones with fiat)

By just sitting on your coins, instead of using them, Bitcoin won't grow! Spend them, and buy back at the same time.

Amen man, you get it. When you use BTC , you also help your investment at the same time. Isnt that cool   ?

About bitcoin price , let the whale take care of it

[Beliathon]

By just sitting on your coins, instead of using them, Bitcoin won't grow!

That is a myth, sir, and I mean to slay it!

Wealth held in bitcoin represents wealth that was formerly held in fiat. Every satoshi - every cent - makes the network stronger and more valuable. We're growing a baby black hole here, the more mass we feed it the bigger the event horizon. In other words, HOLDING IS GOOD FOR BITCOIN AND DEADLY TO FIAT!

Please read:
https://medium.com/@agilemofo/why-you-should-care-about-bitcoin-1a812f8fa7cd
https://medium.com/@spc_bitcoin/accelerated-learning-for-bitcoin-ab461d4ee1b7
http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/im-hoarding-bitcoins-and-no-you-cant-have-any/
http://trilema.com/2013/things-that-matter-these-days-things-that-dont-matter-these-days/
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths



Let the paper banknotes return to their intrinsic value while our hungry infant feasts on bankster wealth.

[hasmukhrawal]

I was thinking of trading bit coins as everyone told me that i can earn more bit coins in trading.
But now i am clear that trading is losing.
Your reasons are appreciateable.

[Mickeyb]

Hoarding is sooo boring though.. I do not feel part of the action, when I am not doing something with some of my coins. Take the leap and trade a small percentage of your coins. {Say 20%}

A friend of mine, bought some bitcoins, to experiment and "play" as he put it. He started with 1 BTC and traded his way up to 8.4 BTC within a year. The highest interest he could get from banks for that amount

was +/- 6% for that same period. Trading BTC is becoming an obsession with him now, and I constantly warn him to keep a little back, from the profits he makes as a trader.   

Well your friend is a very good trader! I hope that you are aware that many people are losing while trading. For every won trade out there somebody had to lose money on the other side, so trade only if you know what you are doing.

[g1974ak]

be a hodler not a trader.  top reasons:

1. most traders lose money.  if you were a
good trader you'd be rich already.

2. why risk losing money trading when
you can hold and have a much higher
probability of making money on
strong fundamentals?

3. thin market = technical analysis
is less reliable, bigger spreads, and
more manipulation.

4. brokers and exchanges are unreliable (gox)

Gold words. Always better to hold the bitcoins you have for several reasons. I never believe in the analysis made by the traders about bitcoin. Because there is an asset that is iregulated and don't know rules in it's way of behavior. So very hard or impossible to predict its way of conduct.

[gentlemand]

Gold words. Always better to hold the bitcoins you have for several reasons. I never believe in the analysis made by the traders about bitcoin. Because there is an asset that is iregulated and don't know rules in it's way of behavior. So very hard or impossible to predict its way of conduct.

Agreed. TA, drawing on BTC market 'history' and trying to analyse the actions of exchanges that are probably largely fictional and/or rigged is not going to get the results that a proper market might provide.

I think having a dabble with a tiny fraction of your holdings would still be an interesting experiment for everyone. Most would learn pretty rapidly that it wasn't for them.

[Whitehouse]

Hoarding is sooo boring though.. I do not feel part of the action, when I am not doing something with some of my coins. Take the leap and trade a small percentage of your coins. {Say 20%}

A friend of mine, bought some bitcoins, to experiment and "play" as he put it. He started with 1 BTC and traded his way up to 8.4 BTC within a year. The highest interest he could get from banks for that amount

was +/- 6% for that same period. Trading BTC is becoming an obsession with him now, and I constantly warn him to keep a little back, from the profits he makes as a trader.   

It's not boring to me. I like knowing I've got a nest egg and it is fun watching them fluctuate and I think it's good to save. I can't wait to spend them but feel bitcoin has a long way to go before it reaches its potential so will keep on saving them until bitcoin is at a point where I can actually buy things I want.

By just sitting on your coins, instead of using them, Bitcoin won't grow!

That is a myth, sir, and I mean to slay it!

Wealth held in bitcoin represents wealth that was formerly held in fiat. Every satoshi - every cent - makes the network stronger and more valuable. We're growing a baby black hole here, the more mass we feed it the bigger the event horizon. In other words, HOLDING IS GOOD FOR BITCOIN AND DEADLY TO FIAT!

Exactly. It's basic supply and demand. Take more coins out of circulation and the value goes up. Don't some diamond companies hoard lots of diamonds in an attempt to push the price up? I think this is the same.

[jonald_fyookball]

Hoarding is sooo boring though.. I do not feel part of the action, when I am not doing something with some of my coins. Take the leap and trade a small percentage of your coins. {Say 20%}

A friend of mine, bought some bitcoins, to experiment and "play" as he put it. He started with 1 BTC and traded his way up to 8.4 BTC within a year. The highest interest he could get from banks for that amount

was +/- 6% for that same period. Trading BTC is becoming an obsession with him now, and I constantly warn him to keep a little back, from the profits he makes as a trader.   

It's not boring to me. I like knowing I've got a nest egg and it is fun watching them fluctuate and I think it's good to save. I can't wait to spend them but feel bitcoin has a long way to go before it reaches its potential so will keep on saving them until bitcoin is at a point where I can actually buy things I want.

By just sitting on your coins, instead of using them, Bitcoin won't grow!

That is a myth, sir, and I mean to slay it!

Wealth held in bitcoin represents wealth that was formerly held in fiat. Every satoshi - every cent - makes the network stronger and more valuable. We're growing a baby black hole here, the more mass we feed it the bigger the event horizon. In other words, HOLDING IS GOOD FOR BITCOIN AND DEADLY TO FIAT!

Exactly. It's basic supply and demand. Take more coins out of circulation and the value goes up. Don't some diamond companies hoard lots of diamonds in an attempt to push the price up? I think this is the same.

I fully agree its important to spend coins.  Don't spend your stash.  Just spend small amounts and replenish them.
If everyone was a speculator and no one actually used Bitcoin for commerce, I don't think that would be good
for the fundamentals of the coin and would therefore hurt the coin.  It's a bit insane to say "yeah, Bitcoin worldwide adoption!"
and then also say "yeah but no one really needs to use it."

[Brooker]

If everyone was a speculator and no one actually used Bitcoin for commerce, I don't think that would be good

On the contrary, if everyone or almost everyone held their coins the value of bitcoin would skyrocket seeing as they were so rare. I think the best practice is to buy bitcoins back every time you spend them and choose to use bitcoin over over payment methods when available. Thus you get to hoard your stash but still help promote bitcoins usage as a currency too.

[jonald_fyookball]

On the contrary, if everyone or almost everyone held their coins the value of bitcoin would skyrocket seeing as they were so rare.

The same could be said about tulip bulbs.

Resources must be not only scarce but also valued.  The problem of "everyone just hold!"
is if that becomes the ONLY reason to hold, it is unsustainable.

[Xialla]

be a hodler not a trader.  top reasons:

1. most traders lose money.  if you were a
good trader you'd be rich already.

2. why risk losing money trading when
you can hold and have a much higher
probability of making money on
strong fundamentals?

3. thin market = technical analysis
is less reliable, bigger spreads, and
more manipulation.

4. brokers and exchanges are unreliable (gox)

5. you can store majority of your bitcoins offline on paper wallets, so there is no way how to "hack" you and stole them

6. you can sit and relax, you don't need to spend hours on web reading latest news or react in minutes with shaking hands

7. value of bitcoin growing over time, holders were, are, and will be the guys with the highest profits. no miners or traders, but holders. check last 5 years who won this battle..

[Whitehouse]

On the contrary, if everyone or almost everyone held their coins the value of bitcoin would skyrocket seeing as they were so rare.

The same could be said about tulip bulbs.

Resources must be not only scarce but also valued.  The problem of "everyone just hold!"
is if that becomes the ONLY reason to hold, it is unsustainable.

Bitcoin is quite a bit different that tulip bulbs for numerous reasons. Using bulbs as a currency would obviously be a bit silly but that was just more of a wild investment that went sour and collapsed. Bitcoin is already a currency with a fixed supply whereas tulip bulbs wern't. Of course bitcoin could still colapse but tulip mania and bitcoin are two completely different models.

[jonald_fyookball]

On the contrary, if everyone or almost everyone held their coins the value of bitcoin would skyrocket seeing as they were so rare.

The same could be said about tulip bulbs.

Resources must be not only scarce but also valued.  The problem of "everyone just hold!"
is if that becomes the ONLY reason to hold, it is unsustainable.

Bitcoin is quite a bit different that tulip bulbs for numerous reasons. Using bulbs as a currency would obviously be a bit silly but that was just more of a wild investment that went sour and collapsed. Bitcoin is already a currency with a fixed supply whereas tulip bulbs wern't. Of course bitcoin could still colapse but tulip mania and bitcoin are two completely different models.

Exactly!  It's a CURRENCY. 

If you think Bitcoin can keep its value without being used as a currency, I think you're nuts.

[Jace]

Ignore this noob. Hold your coins, spending is a tactical mistake in this game.

-sigh-

Wealth held in bitcoin represents wealth that was formerly held in fiat. Every satoshi - every cent - makes the network stronger and more valuable. We're growing a baby black hole here, the more mass we feed it the bigger the event horizon. In other words, HOLDING IS GOOD FOR BITCOIN AND DEADLY TO FIAT!

Geez, why are some people so reluctant to see that HOLDING and SPENDING are not mutually exclusive 

Again, please read my reply above and especially this part:

Even if you consider your bitcoins as long term investment, rather than spending money - what do you think will help raising the value of your precious bitcoins more:

• 1. Hodling your bitcoins and spending USD, thus only stimulating the USD economy
  
  or
  
  

• 2. Spending your bitcoins, thus stimulating the BTC economy, and immediately buying back new bitcoins (on exchange or circle or whatever), thus increasing demand for Bitcoin on the market.

Notice that the end result is the same: you essentially purchased some stuff, lost some USD, and kept your BTC. But with option nr. 2, you're actively helping to raise the Bitcoin price level on two ends: Bitcoin economy AND market demand.

I really can't stress this enough: by spending bitcoins and buying them back at the same time, you are effectively still holding (since the number of coins you have stays the same). Except now you actively help Bitcoin grow as well. Win-Win! THIS is deadly to fiat!

[Jace]

I think the best practice is to buy bitcoins back every time you spend them and choose to use bitcoin over over payment methods when available. Thus you get to hoard your stash but still help promote bitcoins usage as a currency too.

Spot on. All hodlers: please think about this, next time you have the opportunity to put Bitcoin to practical use.

[Brewins]

Ignore this noob. Hold your coins, spending is a tactical mistake in this game.

-sigh-

Wealth held in bitcoin represents wealth that was formerly held in fiat. Every satoshi - every cent - makes the network stronger and more valuable. We're growing a baby black hole here, the more mass we feed it the bigger the event horizon. In other words, HOLDING IS GOOD FOR BITCOIN AND DEADLY TO FIAT!

Geez, why are some people so reluctant to see that HOLDING and SPENDING are not mutually exclusive 

Again, please read my reply above and especially this part:

Even if you consider your bitcoins as long term investment, rather than spending money - what do you think will help raising the value of your precious bitcoins more:

• 1. Hodling your bitcoins and spending USD, thus only stimulating the USD economy
  
  or
  
  

• 2. Spending your bitcoins, thus stimulating the BTC economy, and immediately buying back new bitcoins (on exchange or circle or whatever), thus increasing demand for Bitcoin on the market.

Notice that the end result is the same: you essentially purchased some stuff, lost some USD, and kept your BTC. But with option nr. 2, you're actively helping to raise the Bitcoin price level on two ends: Bitcoin economy AND market demand.

I really can't stress this enough: by spending bitcoins and buying them back at the same time, you are effectively still holding (since the number of coins you have stays the same). Except now you actively help Bitcoin grow as well. Win-Win! THIS is deadly to fiat!

but you will lose on fees, if BTC really skyrockets may be a significant amount

[Jace]

but you will lose on fees, if BTC really skyrockets may be a significant amount

The average exchange fee to buy BTC nowadays is what, 0.2% or something?

So for a measly +0.2% on your expenses (e.g. a € 10 pizza would now cost € 10.02), you can buy everything with BTC instead of fiat, without losing any bitcoins. If everybody does this, how much do you think it will help Bitcoin to actually skyrocket? How does that compare to the 0.2% extra costs?

Think about the bigger picture. If Bitcoin skyrockets, the fees you paid are totally and utterly insignificant.

[gentlemand]

The average exchange fee to buy BTC nowadays is what, 0.2% or something?

So for a measly +0.2% on your expenses (e.g. a € 10 pizza would now cost € 10.02), you can buy everything with BTC instead of fiat, without losing any bitcoins. If everybody does this, how much do you think it will help Bitcoin to actually skyrocket? How does that compare to the 0.2% extra costs?

Depends where you're at. Not all countries have exchanges. You might wait several days to get money on one and pay $30-50 to transfer it if you're abroad. Sometimes it's not possible at all from the more obscure countries.

[ajareselde]

be a hodler not a trader.  top reasons:

1. most traders lose money.  if you were a
good trader you'd be rich already.

2. why risk losing money trading when
you can hold and have a much higher
probability of making money on
strong fundamentals?

3. thin market = technical analysis
is less reliable, bigger spreads, and
more manipulation.

4. brokers and exchanges are unreliable (gox)

1. Most people get greedy and/or get emotional to their investments, that doesn't mean you have to be one of them

2. Every move you make is a risk of some sort, and just like trading, hodling can cost you just the same.

3. Most people here can't make a decent TA anyways, bigger spreads mean more chance to cash in on those spreads, and manipulation can work in your favor if you
can recognise the direction it's heading.

4. Trading doesn't mean you have to keep your coins on exchange, you can just deposit them, make the trade and withdraw again. Because of avoiding to withdraw after
going to fiat, most traders want to go into other notable alts instead, but if you're not dealing with a lot of funds, this should not impact you as much.

I see the point you are trying to make, but i think that people should find whats fits them the most, because running away from a potential
risks is running away from potential profits as well. With well thought moves, and caution regarding security, trading can be quite profitable, but i agree that it's not for everyone.

cheers

[cellard]

By just sitting on your coins, instead of using them, Bitcoin won't grow!

That is a myth, sir, and I mean to slay it!

Wealth held in bitcoin represents wealth that was formerly held in fiat. Every satoshi - every cent - makes the network stronger and more valuable. We're growing a baby black hole here, the more mass we feed it the bigger the event horizon. In other words, HOLDING IS GOOD FOR BITCOIN AND DEADLY TO FIAT!

Please read:
https://medium.com/@agilemofo/why-you-should-care-about-bitcoin-1a812f8fa7cd
https://medium.com/@spc_bitcoin/accelerated-learning-for-bitcoin-ab461d4ee1b7
http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/im-hoarding-bitcoins-and-no-you-cant-have-any/
http://trilema.com/2013/things-that-matter-these-days-things-that-dont-matter-these-days/
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths



Let the paper banknotes return to their intrinsic value while our hungry infant feasts on bankster wealth.

This. The more money we extract from the evil fiat system the better. It only strengthens Bitcoin. It raises its marketcap, everything about ti is positive. There will always be other people that can afford or it just dont care about holding to spend some of it.