Transactions speed prevent us from going to Mainstream ?

[Linuld]

The big thing right now is about pattern recognition put in place by banks and govs to control whatever we do with our money.
I say this not as a fud but because it happened to me: I was asked to give some clarifications about what I did with my money.
Hence I realized that is NOT my money. I mean, yes it is, but at a certain extent.

This scares me. Since there's very little I can do about it. I have no control over it.

I started using bitcoin because of this: I want control over my wealth. I do not trust govs and banks.
My money my rules not theirs.

Care to explain what the pattern was that led to you being asked about what you did with your money? And where are you from? United States? I guess that's the country i imagine the easiest that they implement such things.

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[gentlemand]

Care to explain what the pattern was that led to you being asked about what you did with your money? And where are you from? United States? I guess that's the country i imagine the easiest that they implement such things.

It's in a lot of places now. I'm in the UK. There've been cases where people were flatly denied the ability to withdraw large amounts of cash. If you can then they often ask you what you're doing with it and in some cases you have to provide proof. Same goes for large cash deposits.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-2547286/High-street-banks-block-customers-taking-large-cash-sums-counter.html

[Linuld]

Care to explain what the pattern was that led to you being asked about what you did with your money? And where are you from? United States? I guess that's the country i imagine the easiest that they implement such things.

It's in a lot of places now. I'm in the UK. There've been cases where people were flatly denied the ability to withdraw large amounts of cash. If you can then they often ask you what you're doing with it and in some cases you have to provide proof. Same goes for large cash deposits.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-2547286/High-street-banks-block-customers-taking-large-cash-sums-counter.html

Wow, didn't know that normal people have to deal with that nowadays. But it doesn't surprise me that it is in the UK. I mean they are the second best follower of the "War on terror". Surely they see all their citizens as potential terrorists.

[CheckOut3]

The normal average confirmation time is about 7-10 minutes.

[Outlander]

Spending bitcoin for daily expense like cofffee, train ticket is same as spending cash, but bitcion is e currecny. Most of the  shops don't require the waiting for 1 confirmation.

[Linuld]

Spending bitcoin for daily expense like cofffee, train ticket is same as spending cash, but bitcion is e currecny. Most of the  shops don't require the waiting for 1 confirmation.

It makes no sense anyway since a double spend will not happen for a coffee or so. Even for huge buys it would make no sense on many levels.

The only thing i can imagine, being risky, might be a fork the merchant and buyer are on. So that no real bitcoins moved.

[Q7]

I think at this point confirmation speed is not the main barrier although this is one of the contributing causes that prevent widescale adoption. It's the trust and reputation that we have been suffering over the years that have somehow made people lose confidence in bitcoin.

[makcik]

Hmmm. So, bitcoin transactions take quite long time to confirm. As reported 15-20 minutes for confirmation. Now, as we have an example, when you are out at McDonald's for a lunch and at payment counter you keep standing for about 15 minutes waiting for your transaction to confirm? Well this can cost you and to the person whom you are paying some precious time. This is a hindrance for bitcoins on the path to becoming mainstream.
Solution to this cannot be done by us. It fully depends on our wallet providers. They should do some amendments in their system to make the process quicker. As definitely, no one can wait in this pace moving world.

[bearex]

Yes. If you wanted to effectively use it, you would have to rely on 0 transactions. Otherwise the time is too long,.

[SebastianJu]

Yes. If you wanted to effectively use it, you would have to rely on 0 transactions. Otherwise the time is too long,.

Yes, for such small amount a zero confirmation transaction is enough. I mean the risk for the seller is not really high then.

[Lionidas]

I always thought a payment can not go thru if it doesn't have at least 1 confirmation no matter how small it is.
Even below the miners fee.

[achow101]

I always thought a payment can not go thru if it doesn't have at least 1 confirmation no matter how small it is.
Even below the miners fee.

No. Transactions can occur and your balance can change. Confirmations are only there to guarantee that the transaction cannot be reversed or changed. There is no such thing as a transaction "going thru", a transaction either occurs or it does it. Once it occurs, it confirms, or it does not. Both are different things.

Hmmm. So, bitcoin transactions take quite long time to confirm. As reported 15-20 minutes for confirmation. Now, as we have an example, when you are out at McDonald's for a lunch and at payment counter you keep standing for about 15 minutes waiting for your transaction to confirm? Well this can cost you and to the person whom you are paying some precious time. This is a hindrance for bitcoins on the path to becoming mainstream.
Solution to this cannot be done by us. It fully depends on our wallet providers. They should do some amendments in their system to make the process quicker. As definitely, no one can wait in this pace moving world.

That is why 0 confirmation transactions can be used for those small transactions. In reality, 0 conf is safe for many transactions. There is practically no risk with accepting unconfirmed transactions in most cases. Double spending an unconfirmed transaction is still incredibly hard due to the way the network works. It will reject any such double spends and that double spending transaction doesn't get relayed. The only thing to be careful about with accepting unconfirmed transactions is to check the fee that it is high enough to get confirmed and the outputs to make sure there are no dust outputs which can prevent it from being confirmed. Those two things just need to be checked and if everything is high enough, then an unconfirmed transaction can be accepted for payment with little risk of it being double spent.

[SebastianJu]

I always thought a payment can not go thru if it doesn't have at least 1 confirmation no matter how small it is.
Even below the miners fee.

When it has 1 confirmation then it is pretty sure that the transaction will stay. If it does not have a confirmation then slight risks exist. That's why exchanges at least demand 1 confirmation before they give you the coins you sent into your account.

This would not work anymore when the ones get their will that want bitcoin stay with 1 megabyte blocksize limit. Because then you can't trust anymore if transactions will reach and confirm.

[bitbaby]

Yes. If you wanted to effectively use it, you would have to rely on 0 transactions. Otherwise the time is too long,.

For buying a coffee as OP suggested the coffee shop won't need to wait for 1 confirmation if it has the proper fees, I think that's all the retailers need to check, if the transaction on blockchain shows it has proper fees then they don't need to worry about double spends because firstly no one would even think of double spending such a small amount and you would need a computer access right there to do that.

But having been said that it is something which some retailers will need to worry about, especially if the the price of the product/s is bigger than a coffee.

[Blue_Tiger73]

Yeah, I think so. The transaction times are quite high and I think that it is one of the reasons Bitcoin is not mainstream yet. Some of my transactions have taken more than 1 hour to process. But normally it only takes around 10 minutes which is not very long. Another reason Bitcoin is not mainstream, is that not enough places accept Bitcoin.

[West man]

Speed does really make a difference to most. Unless you are waiting at the counter at a store then I can see it being a major problem.
So until that issue is taken care of then it is not ready to go in the consumer market yet.

[SebastianJu]

Yeah, I think so. The transaction times are quite high and I think that it is one of the reasons Bitcoin is not mainstream yet. Some of my transactions have taken more than 1 hour to process. But normally it only takes around 10 minutes which is not very long. Another reason Bitcoin is not mainstream, is that not enough places accept Bitcoin.

Well it is up to you if you really want to wait for one or more confirmations. It should not be needed with a high enough fee. Of course only when you look at the real blockchain, preferably on your own computer or smartphone. Not looking at a blockchain the other party is showing you.

Maybe bitcoiners should handle ans communicate this topic more. I mean bitcoiners mostly speak about waiting for confirmations though it should not be really needed for most amounts. That might give the impression of bitcoin being slow. While in fact it is only MORE safe with one transaction. And like with banks, you only need higher security with higher amounts of money.

[brg444]

Yeah, I think so. The transaction times are quite high and I think that it is one of the reasons Bitcoin is not mainstream yet. Some of my transactions have taken more than 1 hour to process. But normally it only takes around 10 minutes which is not very long. Another reason Bitcoin is not mainstream, is that not enough places accept Bitcoin.

Well it is up to you if you really want to wait for one or more confirmations. It should not be needed with a high enough fee. Of course only when you look at the real blockchain, preferably on your own computer or smartphone. Not looking at a blockchain the other party is showing you.

Maybe bitcoiners should handle ans communicate this topic more. I mean bitcoiners mostly speak about waiting for confirmations though it should not be really needed for most amounts. That might give the impression of bitcoin being slow. While in fact it is only MORE safe with one transaction. And like with banks, you only need higher security with higher amounts of money.

If you don't bother with security (small amounts of money) why use Bitcoin?

What's so wrong with spending fiat and saving Bitcoin?

Why do we have to pretend that Bitcoin has to be used and is better in every aspect? It's not. In fact it's frankly lacking in terms of convenience and daily usability.

Gresham's law is not going away

[SebastianJu]

Yeah, I think so. The transaction times are quite high and I think that it is one of the reasons Bitcoin is not mainstream yet. Some of my transactions have taken more than 1 hour to process. But normally it only takes around 10 minutes which is not very long. Another reason Bitcoin is not mainstream, is that not enough places accept Bitcoin.

Well it is up to you if you really want to wait for one or more confirmations. It should not be needed with a high enough fee. Of course only when you look at the real blockchain, preferably on your own computer or smartphone. Not looking at a blockchain the other party is showing you.

Maybe bitcoiners should handle ans communicate this topic more. I mean bitcoiners mostly speak about waiting for confirmations though it should not be really needed for most amounts. That might give the impression of bitcoin being slow. While in fact it is only MORE safe with one transaction. And like with banks, you only need higher security with higher amounts of money.

If you don't bother with security (small amounts of money) why use Bitcoin?

What's so wrong with spending fiat and saving Bitcoin?

Why do we have to pretend that Bitcoin has to be used and is better in every aspect? It's not. In fact it's frankly lacking in terms of convenience and daily usability.

Gresham's law is not going away

What are you speaking about? Who said that i don't care about security? I only say for small amounts it is not needed to wait for a confirmation when there is a fee that most probably will be sufficient. For bigger amounts of course one should wait for at least one confirmation.

Nobody said it's wrong to spend fiat. Where did you read that? Of course a currency is only a currency when it flows. And satoshi created bitcoin as an alternative to bank money. Which means it needs to fulfill the things bank money can offer. Of course that means it has to be possible to use it in a similar way. Otherwise it would be no alternative.

Bitcoin has only a learning curve. But in daily life, when everyone would accept it, it would be great. Paying with the smartphone in seconds, receiving the same way. For more security wait for a confirmation.

So with adoption, and that is another thing that is inevitably needed for bitcoin becoming an alternative to bank money, bitcoin would be superiour to fiat. No change money, simply paying and with enough acceptance you can pay everywhere.

[Jeremycoin]

Could this be the reason , It's like 15-20mn to get at least 1 confirmation if I'am correct ?
Anyway the point is that we need some time to get transactions verified , could this actually prevent us from going to mainstream ?  I mean if you want to buy something from McDonald are you supposed to wait 15mn while that's the time of your launch break ?

When you are buying parking tickets are you also supposed to wait few minuts ?   It wouldn't make any sense .

Honestly , I'am not even sure what controls the speed of the transactions .

More confirmations = More secure
I mean, if you have one McDonald restaurant are you supposed to not check the money that the costumer gives to you, cuz it can be a fake money.
When you are buying parking tickets, whether the machine doesn't have to scan the money? (What if you gave it a plain paper that has the size like money) It wouldn't make any sense .

Honestly , the transactions speed depends on the miners. If there's so many transaction, the queues will be longer.