NSA KNOWS

[GODLIKE]

I open this thread because it seems many people have the illusion of anonymity with Bitcoin.

There's a degree of anonymity when you pay with Bitcoin: it's a little more than when you pay in cash, when you buy online, and it's THE SAME of paying in cash if you use Bitcoin at a cafe or in a shop.

But if you think the government can't "spy on you" when you use Bitcoin you are so wrong.

NSA KNOWS you have something to do with Bitcoin when you launch your wallet and connect to a node.

They control each and every connection, so they see from home at n.XX Dumb Street, where Genius Guy lives, somebody just opened a Bitcoin wallet, because you just connected to a Bitcoin node.
And because the volume transfer reveals the amount of money transmitted, they could also know if you have a load of Bitcoin or you are just a guy with average cash.

Now, I may be wrong on this, but it seems pretty straightforward to think: NSA can filter PHONE CALLS and emails, you think they can't set up a system and identify who is running a Bitcoin node and, consequently, users with wallets?
If this system is not already up, it will soon be.
They won't know who is in front of the computer when the wallet is opened, but sure as the Sun, they know at that house somebody is using Bitcoin.



You scared of hackers? That's a better motivation for privacy but still... if you are here now, on this forum, chances are you are so tech savvy that you have a good antivirus installed, you don't open popups and install crap you don't know the origin of.



Also, think the following: if you are so scared to show that you use Bitcoin, what will happen in the future, when a large part of population will use it?
Will they all pretend to be still using dollars?

And last but not least... if a hacker manages to enter a computer, no matter if you use Bitcoin or bank account: he'll fuck both.
Sure, with Bitcoin the thing is much faster, but you won't be safe, regardless.

The problem is not Bitcoin, the problem is, and remains, being tech savvy.

[GonnaGrinditout]

You mean bitcoin is nsacoin? 

[notbatman]

What if I pay with Bitcoin by passing a private key written in crayon on wax paper?

[GODLIKE]

What if I pay with Bitcoin  by passing a private key written in crayon on wax paper?

That's good, NSA wouldn't probably know, but the person in front of you would know.
And, as far as I know, this happens really, really rarely

[Bitcoinpro]

are these NSA fiat sheep we are talking about?

or NSA crypto specialists

[GODLIKE]

are these NSA fiat sheep we are talking about?

or NSA crypto specialists

I'm just saying: if you think government doesn't know you are onto Bitcoin, you are wrong.

Btw, now that I think about it... they probably have a very good estimate of how many Bitcoin users are all over the globe 

I could just send them an email and ask for that number

[Bitcoin Seller]

Off-chain transaction or Darkwallet should make it harder for them, ew already know that transaction are tracable with some efforts and they can build system and basically all someone need to know where are you and who are you is your IP address

[Bitcoinpro]

are these NSA fiat sheep we are talking about?

or NSA crypto specialists

I'm just saying: if you think government doesn't know you are onto Bitcoin, you are wrong.

Btw, now that I think about it... they probably have a very good estimate of how many Bitcoin users are all over the globe 

I could just send them an email and ask for that number

lol they took a brain scan of me at birth im self aware of enuff things

thanks for the imput anywayz

[Kazimir]

1. Most of my Bitcoin expenses are done from thin clients, not full nodes.

2. A Bitcoin node makes no difference in broadcasting the user's own transactions, or anyone else's. The whole idea of Bitcoin's P2P network is that every node holds and dsitributes every transaction. Hence, the NSA (or anyone else) can't distinguish if the transactions I'm relaying are my own or other people's. That's not their shortcoming, there is simply no difference. Transactions are not linked to or associated with a particular node or user or wallet in any way.

3. I frequently use web wallets. So the transactions I send or receive through there don't have anything to do with my IP or nodes or whatever.

4. For my really large transactions, I create and sign the txs locally, and push them through external APIs.

So, no sir, you're wrong. The NSA knows jack shit.

[GODLIKE]

1. Most of my Bitcoin expenses are done from thin clients, not full nodes.

2. A Bitcoin node makes no difference in broadcasting the user's own transactions, or anyone else's. The whole idea of Bitcoin's P2P network is that every node holds and dsitributes every transaction. Hence, the NSA (or anyone else) can't distinguish if the transactions I'm relaying are my own or other people's. That's not their shortcoming, there is simply no difference. Transactions are not linked to or associated with a particular node or user or wallet in any way.

3. I frequently use web wallets. So the transactions I send or receive through there don't have anything to do with my IP or nodes or whatever.

4. For my really large transactions, I create and sign the txs locally, and push them through external APIs.

So, no sir, you're wrong. The NSA knows jack shit.

1. even thin clients connect to their nodes. NSA knows it.

2. when you open a wallet, you connect to a node. This is inevitable.

3. correct. But this is you. Most people use common installed wallets from pc or smartphone. And that's the norm.

4. I don't really understand what you are talking about, probably some coding stuff. While most users at the moment are tech savvy, they are not all coders, you know. And anyway, if you don't use a webservice you are still connecting to a Bitcoin node from your home.

So, sir, better you reconsider:
YOU may be off the scope of NSA (but if needed, they will switch more attention to you), but most people are being traced, in general, and THAT's what I'm talking about.
Seems you only wanted to show your e-peen size.

[Bitcoinpro]

The NSA fiat budget would be shrinking so bad

just like everything fiat its day is over

the NSA and most government budgeted institutions

have ro realign themselves with Crypto

[GODLIKE]

The NSA fiat budget would be shrinking so bad

just like everything fiat its day is over

the NSA and most government budgeted institutions

have ro realign themselves with Crypto

Maybe, but they are still there, and for some years still.

Also, the link in your sign doesn't work.

[Slark]

If you think you are totally anonymous while using bitcoin, think again. That is harsh truth. I think people are often confusing privacy with anonymity.
We need to differentiate between anonymity and privacy in the context of financial transactions. We can call a transaction anonymous if no one knows who you are.
We can call a transaction private if what you purchased, and for what amount, are unknown. Bitcoin is more about privacy than anonymity. That is a difference.

[XCASH]

If you think you are totally anonymous while using bitcoin, think again. That is harsh truth. I think people are often confusing privacy with anonymity.
We need to differentiate between anonymity and privacy in the context of financial transactions. We can call a transaction anonymous if no one knows who you are.
We can call a transaction private if what you purchased, and for what amount, are unknown. Bitcoin is more about privacy than anonymity. That is a difference.

What any NSA equivalent in any country could find out about you and what anyone else could find out about you are two completely different things. Most people couldn't crack anything you encrypted, but NSA type organizations probably could. Who cares if the NSA knows you use Bitcoin unless you are a terrorist. Unless you start running your Bitcoin wallet through Tor or a VPN it's not anonymous anyway. Search Google for your Bitcoin address and it's likely you will find a blockchain.info link giving every transaction ever sent from your IP address.

[fairglu]

Bitcoin is a public ledger, a ledger that forgets nothing, and cannot be tampered with.

Even without NSA-grade super-powers, you are pretty much guaranteed any kind of crypto-anonymity will be at best temporary, future techniques, analysis, tools and blockchain forensics will offer more and more insight.

And this is what differentiates bitcoin from all other fiat-based accounting systems, which are not public, prone to backup failure and tampering.

[Kazimir]

1. even thin clients connect to their nodes. NSA knows it.

Their nodes. If some node gets 3000 connections, then what? Regardless of the fact that the connection of thin clients to dedicated nodes might even be encrypted, go through random ports, and whatnot.

At best, they might be able to guesstimate that I'm doing "something" with Bitcoin. Well, that's fine with me. They sure as hell can't monitor or log or measure what I'm doing.

2. when you open a wallet, you connect to a node. This is inevitable.

That's not the point. See also below.

3. correct. But this is you. Most people use common installed wallets from pc or smartphone. And that's the norm.

4. I don't really understand what you are talking about, probably some coding stuff. While most users at the moment are tech savvy, they are not all coders, you know. And anyway, if you don't use a webservice you are still connecting to a Bitcoin node from your home.

So, sir, better you reconsider:
YOU may be off the scope of NSA (but if needed, they will switch more attention to you), but most people are being traced, in general, and THAT's what I'm talking about.
Seems you only wanted to show your e-peen size.

Haha, sorry if I raise that impression, let me assure you I couldn't care less about my e-peen

I was just explaining it's rather easy to stay 100% off their watch, and it really involves *zero* programming capabilities. And there are even more options I didn't mention yet, such as proxies, Tor, I2P, etc. These are particularly accessible, user-friendly, non-programming-involving solutions that can be easily used by everybody who understands how to use Bitcoin. And they are more than welcome to switch more attention to me, it really won't make a difference.

But let's stick to points 1 and 2. Yes, the NSA may detect that Average Joe is doing something with Bitcoin.

So what?

Again: keep in mind that there is NO difference whatsoever between transactions from Joe, or from anyone else. Joe's node or wallet, or the nodes that Joe's wallet is connecting to, is relaying all transactions (Joe's as well as the rest of the world's) exactly the same.

So how is the NSA going to detect how much bitcoins Joe has, or what he is receiving or spending? How are they going to monitor "his" Bitcoin traffic, considering that the P2P traffic he sends and receives is effectively the whole current Bitcoin P2P state, with anyone and everyone's data mixed together.

[QuestionAuthority]

You're wrong,

[Kazimir]

If you think you are totally anonymous while using bitcoin, think again. That is harsh truth. I think people are often confusing privacy with anonymity.
We need to differentiate between anonymity and privacy in the context of financial transactions. We can call a transaction anonymous if no one knows who you are.
We can call a transaction private if what you purchased, and for what amount, are unknown. Bitcoin is more about privacy than anonymity. That is a difference.

Can you elaborate?

If I make a payment to porn site XYZ, then only they know that the particular address that I made this single paying from, belongs to me. Or well, "me", that is... to the extent of the personal information I share with them, which is typically slim to none when I pay with Bitcoin. They don't know about any other addresses I may own, and anyone else knows nothing at all. Furthermore I use each address only once, as is default behaviour with most common wallets and clients nowadays.

I know, if you're careless, you may not be as anonymous or private as you think. Buying bitcoins on an exchange (where you actually do have to identify), withdrawing them to your wallet and spending them straight on weapons, might not be the smartest move.

But in general, exactly how is privacy or anonymity at risk with Bitcoin?

[ranochigo]

Surprisingly, I would agree somehow with your point. Applications who do not take precautions are more likely to be exploited. Sybil attacks could result in someone knowing your activity and even disrupt the app itself. It is inexpensive to carry out if the client does not ensure that the IP of the nodes do not have a few blocks spaced apart. It has happened one time.

[VirosaGITS]

Lol, it doesn't matter if they know we run a BTC wallet. Depending on how you use it, there's very little way to know who own what.

Either way, so what?

Its not illegal here and its not even legal currency almost everywhere, i'm not sure why this is turning into some conspiracy theories.