[NEWS] Bit4x.com - First FOREX accepts bitcoin! - 1:1000 Leverage!!!

[Enky1974]

You hold the account in bitcoin, no btc cross trading on leverage, cant imagine that in th enext 5 years.

+1

[kentrolla]

Anyone knows him ?
Enky1974 > How did you get to be a beta tester ? Did they asked for testers in this forum ?

I know kakobrekla personally, that's all, i was glad to test it.

Ok, I hope you had a nice relationship, becauseit will be over as soon as this scam goes down the drain.

Just think about this:

Lets say I got 1000 BTC in total.
I put 900 BTC in a SELL order at 20$ at MtGox.
Then I fire up my 1:1000 account on BTC4x.com with the remaining 100 BTC. I execute a BUY order for 100k BTC
--> price shoots up to 20.02$! on MtGox (if all 100k BTC were to be bought there)
My 900 BTC were justsold for 20$ each (63% profit). I could completely loose my 100 BTC on btc4x.com now and still pocket a huge instant gain (I probably wouldnt loose much because price would rally up to somewhere below 20$, so I could still sell at a small loss, or execute an insane SELL order to play the game in reverse).

you execute a buy order for 100k btc?

[fcmatt]

Anyone knows him ?
Enky1974 > How did you get to be a beta tester ? Did they asked for testers in this forum ?

I know kakobrekla personally, that's all, i was glad to test it.

Ok, I hope you had a nice relationship, becauseit will be over as soon as this scam goes down the drain.

Just think about this:

Lets say I got 1000 BTC in total.
I put 900 BTC in a SELL order at 20$ at MtGox.
Then I fire up my 1:1000 account on BTC4x.com with the remaining 100 BTC. I execute a BUY order for 100k BTC
--> price shoots up to 20.02$! on MtGox (if all 100k BTC were to be bought there)
My 900 BTC were justsold for 20$ each (63% profit). I could completely loose my 100 BTC on btc4x.com now and still pocket a huge instant gain (I probably wouldnt loose much because price would rally up to somewhere below 20$, so I could still sell at a small loss, or execute an insane SELL order to play the game in reverse).

you execute a buy order for 100k btc?

more then likely btc4x.com would be a bucket shop setup. they only buy and sell on an exchange when needed.
so if the above scenario actually happened it is highly doubtful that btc4x.com would react in any shape or form.

bitcoinica was a bucket shop in most aspects.

[notme]

From my reading of things, they only let you trade currencies and metals.  The bitcoin is for margin only.

[kentrolla]

Anyone knows him ?
Enky1974 > How did you get to be a beta tester ? Did they asked for testers in this forum ?

I know kakobrekla personally, that's all, i was glad to test it.

Ok, I hope you had a nice relationship, becauseit will be over as soon as this scam goes down the drain.

Just think about this:

Lets say I got 1000 BTC in total.
I put 900 BTC in a SELL order at 20$ at MtGox.
Then I fire up my 1:1000 account on BTC4x.com with the remaining 100 BTC. I execute a BUY order for 100k BTC
--> price shoots up to 20.02$! on MtGox (if all 100k BTC were to be bought there)
My 900 BTC were justsold for 20$ each (63% profit). I could completely loose my 100 BTC on btc4x.com now and still pocket a huge instant gain (I probably wouldnt loose much because price would rally up to somewhere below 20$, so I could still sell at a small loss, or execute an insane SELL order to play the game in reverse).

you execute a buy order for 100k btc?

more then likely btc4x.com would be a bucket shop setup. they only buy and sell on an exchange when needed.
so if the above scenario actually happened it is highly doubtful that btc4x.com would react in any shape or form.

bitcoinica was a bucket shop in most aspects.

forgive me for my ignorance. I know nothing about advanced trading. Was your answer a yes or a no?

my question is:   is it now possible to execute a buy order on mtgox for 100k btc when you only have 100btc?

[Spekulatius]

Can anybody clear this up by confirming that NO trading on BTC/* currency pairs is happening on bit4x.com?
That you can only deposit and withdraw in BTC but cannot actually trade on any bitcoin markets with your leverage?

[kakobrekla]

Can anybody clear this up by confirming that NO trading on BTC/* currency pairs is happening on bit4x.com?
That you can only deposit and withdraw in BTC but cannot actually trade on any bitcoin markets with your leverage?

Correct, see trade example http://btctrading.wordpress.com/2012/10/01/714/

[sippsnapp]

Can anybody clear this up by confirming that NO trading on BTC/* currency pairs is happening on bit4x.com?
That you can only deposit and withdraw in BTC but cannot actually trade on any bitcoin markets with your leverage?

Just think for a minute, this would have been announced big time, at least on bitcointalk, zerohedge, bloomberg, businessinsider, wsj....
And if its introduced, why only by one broker that nobody ever heard of and with a leverage from 1:1000.
Its a wet dream to trade btc vs other currencies like eur/usd on leverage but surely we will have to wait and there should be pre announcements when if/its introduced.

[fcmatt]

Anyone knows him ?
Enky1974 > How did you get to be a beta tester ? Did they asked for testers in this forum ?

I know kakobrekla personally, that's all, i was glad to test it.

Ok, I hope you had a nice relationship, becauseit will be over as soon as this scam goes down the drain.

Just think about this:

Lets say I got 1000 BTC in total.
I put 900 BTC in a SELL order at 20$ at MtGox.
Then I fire up my 1:1000 account on BTC4x.com with the remaining 100 BTC. I execute a BUY order for 100k BTC
--> price shoots up to 20.02$! on MtGox (if all 100k BTC were to be bought there)
My 900 BTC were justsold for 20$ each (63% profit). I could completely loose my 100 BTC on btc4x.com now and still pocket a huge instant gain (I probably wouldnt loose much because price would rally up to somewhere below 20$, so I could still sell at a small loss, or execute an insane SELL order to play the game in reverse).

you execute a buy order for 100k btc?

more then likely btc4x.com would be a bucket shop setup. they only buy and sell on an exchange when needed.
so if the above scenario actually happened it is highly doubtful that btc4x.com would react in any shape or form.

bitcoinica was a bucket shop in most aspects.

forgive me for my ignorance. I know nothing about advanced trading. Was your answer a yes or a no?

my question is:   is it now possible to execute a buy order on mtgox for 100k btc when you only have 100btc?

it appears, no. you cannot.
you might as well just deposit USD into the account. at least there is a traceable record of it. unlike btc where you send
it into a possible blackhole and no one cares since it is bitcoin. i dont count the blockchain as traceable in the equation as
a court will not really give a damn. unlike USD where they are used to it.

[labestiol]

Ok, got it. So it's a standard forex platform where your account is in BTC.
Thus you are subject to risk from BTC variations, without being able to hedge it.

Is the BTC/USD rate the one from MtGox ?

[Foxtra]

" Bitcoins are volatile, can you guarantee my payouts if Bitcoins rise or fall in value?
Yes, our broker VenetFX holds extra Bitcoin reserves, twice the sum of all clients deposits at all times. Just in case that won't be enough, the broker will acquire more Bitcoins on the market. "

This is enough to say that I won't put a single $ or BTC on this broker.

[kakobrekla]

Ok, got it. So it's a standard forex platform where your account is in BTC.
Thus you are subject to risk from BTC variations, without being able to hedge it.

Is the BTC/USD rate the one from MtGox ?

BTC/USD rate is irrelevant for your trading limits and whatnot.

Current Bitcoin exchange rates won't affect your trading limits. With the minimum deposit for opening a Live account, 100 BTC and 1:10 leverage you can trade up to 0.01 lot. With the same deposit and 1:100 leverage you can trade up to 0.1 lot and so on.

[labestiol]

Ok, got it. So it's a standard forex platform where your account is in BTC.
Thus you are subject to risk from BTC variations, without being able to hedge it.

Is the BTC/USD rate the one from MtGox ?

BTC/USD rate is irrelevant for your trading limits and whatnot.

Current Bitcoin exchange rates won't affect your trading limits. With the minimum deposit for opening a Live account, 100 BTC and 1:10 leverage you can trade up to 0.01 lot. With the same deposit and 1:100 leverage you can trade up to 0.1 lot and so on.

Yep, but it'll affect your margin. If BTC/USD is up, your margin is increased, and vice-versa. Right ?
So if an event like the pirate default happens, your margin can be cut in half in 3 days.

[ElectricMucus]

This is essentially btcdaytrade all over again.

In case you missed it: Yeah this is very probable a scam.
Looking forward for another "I told you so." incident - can't have enough of those.

[kakobrekla]

Ok, got it. So it's a standard forex platform where your account is in BTC.
Thus you are subject to risk from BTC variations, without being able to hedge it.

Is the BTC/USD rate the one from MtGox ?

BTC/USD rate is irrelevant for your trading limits and whatnot.

Current Bitcoin exchange rates won't affect your trading limits. With the minimum deposit for opening a Live account, 100 BTC and 1:10 leverage you can trade up to 0.01 lot. With the same deposit and 1:100 leverage you can trade up to 0.1 lot and so on.

Yep, but it'll affect your margin. If BTC/USD is up, your margin is increased, and vice-versa. Right ?

Accually no, if you want to go into details, margin is affected by EUR/USD rate, but its going in your favour anyway.
There seems to be no way around this until the BTC will be one of the 'official' Forex currencies. You can read about margin details here: http://btctrading.wordpress.com/2012/10/01/714/

[FreeMoney]

" Bitcoins are volatile, can you guarantee my payouts if Bitcoins rise or fall in value?
Yes, our broker VenetFX holds extra Bitcoin reserves, twice the sum of all clients deposits at all times. Just in case that won't be enough, the broker will acquire more Bitcoins on the market. "

This is enough to say that I won't put a single $ or BTC on this broker.

No kidding, how could twice all balances ever not be enough? They obv plan to fail at that and then they will fail at getting them at all.

[labestiol]

Yep, but it'll affect your margin. If BTC/USD is up, your margin is increased, and vice-versa. Right ?

Accually no, if you want to go into details, margin is affected by EUR/USD rate, but its going in your favour anyway.
There seems to be no way around this until the BTC will be one of the 'official' Forex currencies. You can read about margin details here: http://btctrading.wordpress.com/2012/10/01/714/

If your margin is denominated is BTC for a trade on EUR/USD, then it has to be affected by BTC/USD (and/or BTC/EUR).
If your margin is not denominated in BTC, say in USD, then it means that your short BTC/USD (because you had to sell btc to get usd margin).

Disclosure : Had an exhausting day, I may be saying crap. Please explain me all the transactions when opening a position, that could work better.

[Enky1974]

It is not complicated, i'll report, again, one of the trade i did these days:


Account leverage 1:10
Account deposit 100 btc
Allowed to open a position size of 0.01 lots MAX


Opened long position on EUR/USD at 1.28882 on 12 sept 2012
Closed long position on EUR/USD at 1.31143 on 14 sept 2012

1.31143 divided by 1.28882 = 1.01754318 or ~1.75%

1.75% profit on my position times 10 ( the leverage of my account)  =17.54%

17.54% of 100 btc of position size = 17.54 btc profit

account now 117 btc from 100btc

note: position margin size VISUALIZED on mt4 while the TRADE WAS OPEN was 77 because they convert the magin size with actual eur/usd cross ratio (100/1.29=~77) i think due to an internal technical reason of the broker, this doesnt affect your trading, your PROFIT IS COMPUTED USING 100 BTC.

INCREASING THE LEVERAGE wouldn't have changed the sort of that example, it would have simply reduced the margin from 77 down to 7.7 in the case of 100 to 1 leverage and so on..., to increase the margin you have to increase the POSITION SIZE IN LOTS

Hope it is clear:)

Cya

[labestiol]

It is not complicated, i'll report, again, one of the trade i did these days:


Account leverage 1:10
Account deposit 100 btc
Allowed to open a position size of 0.01 lots MAX


Opened long position on EUR/USD at 1.28882 on 12 sept 2012
Closed long position on EUR/USD at 1.31143 on 14 sept 2012

1.31143 divided by 1.28882 = 1.01754318 or ~1.75%

1.75% profit on my position times 10 ( the leverage of my account)  =17.54%

17.54% of 100 btc of position size = 17.54 btc profit

account now 117 btc from 100btc

note: position margin size VISUALIZED on mt4 while the TRADE WAS OPEN was 77 because they convert the magin size with actual eur/usd cross ratio (100/1.29=~77) i think due to an internal technical reason of the broker, this doesnt affect your trading, your PROFIT IS COMPUTED USING 100 BTC.

INCREASING THE LEVERAGE wouldn't have changed the sort of that example, it would have simply reduced the margin from 77 down to 7.7 in the case of 100 to 1 leverage and so on..., to increase the margin you have to increase the POSITION SIZE IN LOTS

Hope it is clear:)

Cya

Can you explain the same trade with BTC/USD loosing, say, 20% meanwhile ?

[Enky1974]

Can you explain the same trade with BTC/USD loosing, say, 20% meanwhile ?

Yes, nothing will change in btc, just in usd:
actual btc/usd ratio is 12.70$ per btc

you earned 17.5 btc, or 17.50 times 12.70$ = 222.25$ profit from that trade

in the second case with a drop of 20% at mtgox
you earned 17.5btc, or 17.50 times 10.16$ (12.70-20% drop at mtgox) = 177.8$ profit from that trade

you still have 17.54 btc profit on your account in both cases regardless of BTC vs other currencies