Major defeat toward my plan to drop my bank

[Elwar]

I have pretty much reached the point where I can live off of bitcoins without using any credit/debit cards. My plan was to reach the point where I can drop my bank. The only thing I use my bank account for at this point is paying my mortgage and my lawn service for the house I have in the US.

Last month I decided to pay a big bill for my lawn service of $750 through BillPayForCoins.com. They ended up taking my bitcoins and not paying my bills (which I just found out last week from my lawn guy). I'm glad I didn't try paying my mortgage last month.

DO NOT USE BillPayForCoins.com!

Their claim is that while one partner was out of town on family issues the bank shut down their account. That's all well and good but they still took my bitcoins and haven't responded to any e-mails or phone calls to get my money back.

This is a major blow toward the idea of having a Bitcoin Bill Pay service in the US. They can do it in Canada and Australia, it appears that the banks in the US are in "then they fight you" phase against Bitcoin.

So what should the solution be? The way I see it, the answer usually comes from technology and decentralization.

I think the way it could be done would be somehow using OpenBazaar to do something like BitQuick where individuals can sign up to use their bank accounts to pay bills and get a percentage of profit. You would have a list of people willing to pay your bills with Bitcoins. You send it through an escrow and the bitcoins could be released upon verification that the payment went through (or a set amount of days). As a bonus, if someone could write a plugin to automatically set up the Bill Payment then it would essentially be a free money generator for anyone running it. Decentralized, people can turn their cash into bitcoins and no way for the banks to shut it down.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

I have pretty much reached the point where I can live off of bitcoins without using any credit/debit cards. My plan was to reach the point where I can drop my bank. The only thing I use my bank account for at this point is paying my mortgage and my lawn service for the house I have in the US.

Last month I decided to pay a big bill for my lawn service of $750 through BillPayForCoins.com. They ended up taking my bitcoins and not paying my bills (which I just found out last week from my lawn guy). I'm glad I didn't try paying my mortgage last month.

DO NOT USE BillPayForCoins.com!

Their claim is that while one partner was out of town on family issues the bank shut down their account. That's all well and good but they still took my bitcoins and haven't responded to any e-mails or phone calls to get my money back.

This is a major blow toward the idea of having a Bitcoin Bill Pay service in the US. They can do it in Canada and Australia, it appears that the banks in the US are in "then they fight you" phase against Bitcoin.

So what should the solution be? The way I see it, the answer usually comes from technology and decentralization.

I think the way it could be done would be somehow using OpenBazaar to do something like BitQuick where individuals can sign up to use their bank accounts to pay bills and get a percentage of profit. You would have a list of people willing to pay your bills with Bitcoins. You send it through an escrow and the bitcoins could be released upon verification that the payment went through (or a set amount of days). As a bonus, if someone could write a plugin to automatically set up the Bill Payment then it would essentially be a free money generator for anyone running it. Decentralized, people can turn their cash into bitcoins and no way for the banks to shut it down.

Sorry to hear that Elwar, I've always admired your motivation & desire to be such a bitcoin innovator & visionary.
Just look at this as a minor speed bump though, don't be too disheartened. This is clearly not your fault nor a failure in the bitcoin infrastructure. Keep going bro, I'm not brave enough to do what you've done & go all in. I'm a mere HODLER but I do admire your bravery & determination to be 100% Bitcoin. 

[pedrog]

Can you use bitcoin debit cards like Xapo to pay your bills, at least the smaller ones?

[Denker]

So billpayforcoins as a service provider wasn't able to pay any bills but they had no scruples to take your Bitcoins and haven't informed you about that very important fact? Wow that really sucks.
At least they should have given out a report.

[fryarminer]

Wow. That's a lot of money. Not cool. Thank you for the heads up. So they took your bitcoins last month, and then didn't bother to tell you that their bank and been closed until you contacted them! Wow.

[Elwar]

Wow. That's a lot of money. Not cool. Thank you for the heads up. So they took your bitcoins last month, and then didn't bother to tell you that their bank and been closed until you contacted them! Wow.

They didn't bother to tell me at all.

They responded to a reddit thread 2 weeks ago and have since gone silent again.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3eshfl/warning_billpayforcoinscom_is_a_defunct_business/

billpayforcoins 5 points 13 days ago

First let us start by apologizing for the massive delay. There is no excuse but there is a reason and you deserve to know what happened. The next thing we need to tell you is that we have been working hard (Successfully) to either refund our customers or process payments through other means (More on that later) to Part of the issue recently is that the main person that processes payments was out for nearly a month dealing with some serious family issues.. Technical issues followed which did not allow us access to some key components of the website.. But these have been the least of our problems... and if it wasn't such a difficult and troubling issue this last part would be an interesting conversation piece... When we established the business we made it a point to speak directly to the Bank, explain the business in detail, delivery all of our paperwork and make ourselves available from Day one for any questions that they had. We did this so that we would not have issues with the Bank especially given the fact that we are a bitcoin business.

So.. what was the problem?: Despite a through and detailed explanation of our business with people at the highest level at each of these banks and despite the fact that they opened our accounts and approved our business.. within months Bank after Bank closed our accounts without warning, held the funds until they got around to cutting checks back to us (which is odd because once they closed the accounts we no longer had a bank to deposit into), and stopped or ignored payments that we made on behalf of our customers. The first time that this happened we wrote a mass email to customers advising them that we had this issue and that we had found a replacement bank. We did the same thing the second time, and we notified customers the third time. The person that oversees payment processing being out certainly did not help this most recent time. We have opened a new bank account but given the experience that we have had so many times we have continued to process refunds back to customers and process payments using alternative means. We want to leave it to you as to how you would like to proceed. Your Bitcoin is Safe.If you would like us to process a full refund please email us at admin@billpayforcoins.com. Please include your Bitcoin address in the subject line. We have also made ourselves available to speak with customers, so if you would like to speak with us feel free to reach out.

Again we apologize deeply for all of the confusion.

    Bill Pay For Coin, LLC
    604 N Scott Avenue
    Belton, MO  64012
    +1 (913) 608-9702

Mark Vick & Grant Brown

[Elwar]

Can you use bitcoin debit cards like Xapo to pay your bills, at least the smaller ones?

Good question. I will look into this approach.

[jonald_fyookball]

Sorry to hear that Elwar, I've always admired your motivation & desire to be such a bitcoin innovator & visionary.

Yes me too.  keep up the good fight sir!

[VirosaGITS]

Can you use bitcoin debit cards like Xapo to pay your bills, at least the smaller ones?

Good question. I will look into this approach.

I hope they eventually come through and you get your money back one way or another.

And you are correct for Canada, i am able to do it with BTC for almost everything. For things that do not accept BTC i can use a Credit Card, then use Bylls to pay my Credit Card balance. I can't call it 100% but i could live off 100% BTC if i earned enough.

Beside cash only or debit only local business, i can get by with only BTC, avoiding quite a bit of fees. It's pretty nice.

[Hopalong]

So to get away from trusted money handlers like banks you just send money to anyone who say they will take your bitcoin?

Anyone who has a computer can set up a web page claiming to do a service but since they do not have to register like banks have they can just take all your bitcoin an put it in ther own pockets and noone can do anything about it. No chargeback you know...

[Elwar]

So to get away from trusted money handlers like banks you just send money to anyone who say they will take your bitcoin?

Anyone who has a computer can set up a web page claiming to do a service but since they do not have to register like banks have they can just take all your bitcoin an put it in ther own pockets and noone can do anything about it. No chargeback you know...

Their business is registered, they'd been around for a while and I even had some discussions with Mark.

If I don't get money I will pursue legal action to get it back.

At the very least, Mark Vick and Grant Brown are finished with creating any future Bitcoin businesses.

[acquafredda]

Elwar I'm sorry but that looks like a real scammy internet site.
How did you find out about them?

[Elwar]

Elwar I'm sorry but that looks like a real scammy internet site.
How did you find out about them?

Several news sources:
http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/02/17/exclusive-interview-billpayforcoins/
http://cointelegraph.com/news/113942/how-to-get-your-mom-to-use-bitcoin
https://vimeo.com/118973760

I've seen a few trusted people on the forums say that they used the service and it worked. They were actually doing what they claimed to do for quite a while.

[BitcoinNewsMagazine]

Elwar thanks for posting your experience and so sorry for your loss ... hope it is temporary and you are able to recover.

[acquafredda]

Elwar I'm sorry but that looks like a real scammy internet site.
How did you find out about them?

Several news sources:
http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/02/17/exclusive-interview-billpayforcoins/
http://cointelegraph.com/news/113942/how-to-get-your-mom-to-use-bitcoin
https://vimeo.com/118973760

I've seen a few trusted people on the forums say that they used the service and it worked. They were actually doing what they claimed to do for quite a while.

Ok, I see. Thanks anyway for warning all of us about it and try to make it right.

[thejaytiesto]

Elwar I'm sorry but that looks like a real scammy internet site.
How did you find out about them?

Several news sources:
http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/02/17/exclusive-interview-billpayforcoins/
http://cointelegraph.com/news/113942/how-to-get-your-mom-to-use-bitcoin
https://vimeo.com/118973760

I've seen a few trusted people on the forums say that they used the service and it worked. They were actually doing what they claimed to do for quite a while.

Scams usually work like that. They do a bit of a good job for a while so they can get good rep, then they take the money and run.
I remember your old thread. I don't remember about the taxes part tho. How do you deal with taxes? do you have your bitcoin stack taxed?

[LiteCoinGuy]

I have pretty much reached the point where I can live off of bitcoins without using any credit/debit cards. My plan was to reach the point where I can drop my bank. The only thing I use my bank account for at this point is paying my mortgage and my lawn service for the house I have in the US.



I think the way it could be done would be somehow using OpenBazaar to do something like BitQuick where individuals can sign up to use their bank accounts to pay bills and get a percentage of profit. You would have a list of people willing to pay your bills with Bitcoins. You send it through an escrow and the bitcoins could be released upon verification that the payment went through (or a set amount of days). As a bonus, if someone could write a plugin to automatically set up the Bill Payment then it would essentially be a free money generator for anyone running it. Decentralized, people can turn their cash into bitcoins and no way for the banks to shut it down.

Just look at this as a minor speed bump though, don't be too disheartened. This is clearly not your fault nor a failure in the bitcoin infrastructure.

dont worry about that. when you are a hardcore bitcoiner like Elwar you dont care about that   

[dothebeats]

Elwar I'm sorry but that looks like a real scammy internet site.
How did you find out about them?

Several news sources:
http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/02/17/exclusive-interview-billpayforcoins/
http://cointelegraph.com/news/113942/how-to-get-your-mom-to-use-bitcoin
https://vimeo.com/118973760

I've seen a few trusted people on the forums say that they used the service and it worked. They were actually doing what they claimed to do for quite a while.

For the first few months they would do good, but after quite some time they'll fuck you over. That's how scam works, you know? Specially in the world of bitcoin. Idk why would they scam for $750 if they're a registered service. Sorry for your loss, Elwar.

I'm interested in living with only bitcoins, but there aren't so much services and merchants around here that accepts bitcoin. Hmm, I wonder if an individual could live with bitcoins 100%? There is a documentary for that, right?

[thejaytiesto]

Elwar I'm sorry but that looks like a real scammy internet site.
How did you find out about them?

Several news sources:
http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/02/17/exclusive-interview-billpayforcoins/
http://cointelegraph.com/news/113942/how-to-get-your-mom-to-use-bitcoin
https://vimeo.com/118973760

I've seen a few trusted people on the forums say that they used the service and it worked. They were actually doing what they claimed to do for quite a while.

For the first few months they would do good, but after quite some time they'll fuck you over. That's how scam works, you know? Specially in the world of bitcoin. Idk why would they scam for $750 if they're a registered service. Sorry for your loss, Elwar.

I'm interested in living with only bitcoins, but there aren't so much services and merchants around here that accepts bitcoin. Hmm, I wonder if an individual could live with bitcoins 100%? There is a documentary for that, right?

Yes there is a documentary, but I don't think it's possible 100% legally, it's impossible to pay for bills 100% with bitcoin and it's impossible to own real state with bitcoin without getting it taxed which defeats the point of having bitcoin if you are a libertarian.

[gentlemand]

That sucks massively, however the track record for third parties controlling coins is so utterly wretched I don't think I could ever bring myself to do it unless it was a proper heavyweight like Coinbase or Bitpay.

Kudos to you for leading the way and I hope something gets sorted out.