program

[usagi]

program

[greyhawk]

Local Rules: the following accounts are banned from posting in this thread: Puppet, EskimoBob, Deprived, Factory, nimda, 556j, MPOE-PR, cunicula and guruvan

The Usagi provides.
The Usagi cares for you.
The Usagi wields terrible powers.
All hail the Usagi.

[Francesco]

Local Rules: the following accounts are banned from posting in this thread: Puppet, EskimoBob, Deprived, Factory, nimda, 556j, MPOE-PR, cunicula and guruvan

The Usagi provides.
The Usagi cares for you.
The Usagi wields terrible powers.
All hail the Usagi.

Just try not to make things worse greyhawk. I don't mind questions from concerned investors, they will be added to the faq (see post #2). But we really don't need more trolls here.

Well, they did provide some very useful advice... you can't deny that those that followed it are considerably better off now.

However, I must agree they quite overdid recently, going from pointing out legit concerns to sometimes plain trying to damage Usagi no matter what (why should they give free advice to V.HRL investors on how to try and profit at his expenses, for instance?), or just repeating the same points over and over... as someone else already pointed out, beating a dead horse is no use to anyone; nearly everybody on this forum has long made up his mind on the issues they point out, I believe, and having pages of rage and accusations is simply not worth it anymore. So for a sane discussion it's probably a wise idea to leave them out.

[P4man]

I've decided to do what cytokene is doing. I've decided to accelerate the closure of NYAN.B.

cytokene offered a swap with assets with that have a combined 5 day avg price equal to (actually slightly in excess off)  his bond IPO price, and he ate the losses.  So do I understand correctly you are doing the same and for each bond, a Nyan.B bondholder can pick and choose assets that have a combined 5 day price average of 1 BTC ?

[Bitcoin Oz]

Just a clarification you need to make in your OP:

Until the two motions are settled, you won't be sending anyone assets of nyan.b/nyan.c (the first motion determines what they'd get, the second whether the exchange happens at all).

Otherwise you're going to have people sending you their nyan.b shares - and then complaining when you don't send anything back (which you obviously can't/won't do until the motions are resolved).

That's already happened because people acted on  what usagi said the first time. It costs transfer fees both ways.

[pyrkne]

I've decided to do what cytokene is doing. I've decided to accelerate the closure of NYAN.B.

cytokene offered a swap with assets with that have a combined 5 day avg price equal to (actually slightly in excess off)  his bond IPO price, and he ate the losses.  So do I understand correctly you are doing the same and for each bond, a Nyan.B bondholder can pick and choose assets that have a combined 5 day price average of 1 BTC ?

If I was still holding some .B's this would sound good to me.

[burnside]

Carrying over from the previous thread some points that I suspect are important.

In the first motion, Usagi has proposed being able to value some securities based on his/her own website.  Please do not let that happen.

In the second motion, his/her plan was to allow people to trade assets on a first come, first served basis.  I would argue that this screws over anyone not at the front of the line and thus violates his/her fiduciary duty to protect all shareholders equally.

I have a lot of respect for Usagi and have high hopes for an orderly and equitable shutdown, if a shutdown is indeed necessary.

[Bitcoin Oz]

I've decided to do what cytokene is doing. I've decided to accelerate the closure of NYAN.B.

cytokene offered a swap with assets with that have a combined 5 day avg price equal to (actually slightly in excess off)  his bond IPO price, and he ate the losses.  So do I understand correctly you are doing the same and for each bond, a Nyan.B bondholder can pick and choose assets that have a combined 5 day price average of 1 BTC ?

I'm not holding my breath for that one.

Delete your post please; it's been reported. Local Rules: the following accounts are banned from posting in this thread: Puppet, EskimoBob, Deprived, Factory, nimda, 556j, MPOE-PR, cunicula and guruvan. Please post scam accusations in the scam accusation forum or you will be banned from next month's thread.

They cant delete something when you quote it....

[DannyM]

The assets in NYAN.A/B/C have not changed.

Here are the mandates from the contracts:
NYAN.A: Investments are chosen entirely based on their risk profile; we seek insured investments and very low risk investments only.

Really? What does the HRPT in OBSI.HRPT stand for again?

When UDN and FPGAMINING closed down, I moved assets (OBSI.HRPT and FPGAMINING) into NYAN.A.

So the assets in NYAN.A did change.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Dont you need to liquidate all 3 funds and cant just decide to close one of them without winding the whole thing up ?

[burnside]

The "cherry-picking"/first-come-first-serve has been severely blunted in the current offer. You can state preferences but you will not just be sent assets you choose. A fair mix of assets will be chosen.

Thank you, that's what I was after.

[P4man]

Right now NYAN.B is worth 1 bitcoin per share (1.00734184, again, to be precise).

On what planet? Its trading for 0.45 and its worth even less if I look at the assets. Your numbers are  woefully out of date or mistaken; you have "RMB" of FZB.A at 0.2 (its average is 0.021 and trading around zero), GSDPT is off by a factor 10x too,  obsi by at least a factor 2x. Your spot price seems  a little more correct, but they seem  outdated too, and even they show only  949 / 1543 = 0.6 BTC/share. There is no way you will be able to give everyone 1 BTC worth of assets without adding a lot of coins or other assets.

[Lethos]

Would my quick math be correct if you used Spot numbers instead the NAV to be 0.61?

It's a question, not a critique, I understand the importance of what you trying to do, even if you take a lot of Flak for it.

[P4man]

Right now NYAN.B is worth 1 bitcoin per share (1.00734184, again, to be precise).

On what planet?

Planet earth. See for yourself:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aqlx5dZL3D0DdERXa01oRjh5elozYk5TcEVYTjZiQ3c&gid=2

Its trading for 0.45 and its worth even less if I look at the assets.

If it's trading for 0.45 that means people are not looking at the assets. You say you looked at the assets; I doubt it.

I more than looked at it, I did the math, as did you (but you are ignoring it) and probably everyone with asks below 0.5
5day average trade price for your assets is 937 BTC, or 0.6 BTC per share and thats hopelessly optimistic, because there is not way anyone is going to be able to sell ADMINSORTED, V.HRL or most of the other shit at anything like last trade prices. Most of your assets have a combined bids of less than 1 BTC. If no one wants them, they arent worth anything. Thats where cytokene is so different; he offered a swap with shares that you could actually sell and get your coins back for, not worthless rubbish no one wants.

If you really think Nyan.B fund is worth anywhere near 1 BTC, why dont you put up bids?
You can have mine for 0.8 BTC, 20% profit for you!

Anyways thanks for pointing out my error and I will have a 2nd look at FZB.A later. Have a nice day.

Why dont you have a look at all of them?
BIF.P2P.LOANS is overvalued by >1000%
FZB.a is overvalued by infinity
OBSI.HRPT by >200%
CPA by 30%
etc

[P4man]

NYAN.B proudly stands by it's RMV value of 0.2 for FZB.A and we have no intention of selling shares at 0.02.

0.2? LOL.
It was never over 0.1, no one is even ASKING 0.2, let alone bid 1/10th of that.
https://glbse.com/asset/view/FZB.A

[MPOE-PR]

...

Delete your post please; it's been reported. Local Rules: the following accounts are banned from posting in this thread: Puppet, EskimoBob, Deprived, Factory, nimda, 556j, MPOE-PR, cunicula and guruvan. Please post scam accusations in the scam accusation forum or you will be banned from next month's thread.

They cant delete something when you quote it....

Then edit it as I did -- remove the text and the link :p

Thanks for the tip. And may I suggest that we delete all these posts discussing it once the mods take care of the situation?

No, I'll just change the local rules. From now on local rules for this thread are that usagi must begin all posts with the following string "All hail the great and mighty MPOE-PR" and end all posts with the string "Praise be to the glorious MPOE-PR". Please edit your posts accordingly and modify the first post to reflect these new rules.

Ps. I've not notified the mods cause I'm lazy. Please notify them yourself.

[MrTeal]

NYAN.B proudly stands by it's RMV value of 0.2 for FZB.A and we have no intention of selling shares at 0.02.

0.2? LOL.
It was never over 0.1, no one is even ASKING 0.2, let alone bid 1/10th of that.
https://glbse.com/asset/view/FZB.A

Strange how the RMV of that one is 0.2, but there's 2123 shares available for 0.036 or less. I'm shocked Usagi hasn't purchased all the shares he could get at 1/6th their true value between his host of different funds. Someone's not doing their job as a fund manager.

[MrTeal]

Don't be a 'tard. We're in the process of selling assets and buying back shares. Over 1100 shares were bought back in the last couple of weeks. I don't have time to EXPAND, silly! Where's the money going to come from? If we make 40 bitcoins a week and have to pay out 30 in divs, I have 10 left over to buy back shares with. If I expand, the price will crash and people will call me a scammer. You want out? Fine, then I'll help you get out. Ever hear the expression "be careful what you wish for"?

How about "You can't have your cake and eat it too"?

It says nowhere that I have to maintain the value of NYAN.B, it says nowhere that I have to disclose jack, and it says nowhere that I need to buy back shares. Anywhere. I don't even take a management fee for NYAN.B. So don't bother trying to be wise with me bro. I'm doing a GREAT job.

I wouldn't dream of being wise with you, bro. You might come at me or something, and I have no desire to get spray tan on my clothes.

[P4man]

Usagi, you really did miss a zero in FZB.A's valuation. It has never ever  traded anywhere near 0.2, it IPO'd at 0.1 and its been steeply downhill ever since, If you valued it at 0.02 it might be defensible (its still double of the current highest bid and 400000x last trade), 0.2 is absolutely and utterly insane;  The site doesnt even work, isnt maintained and people woke up to the reality that even though its a good idea,  30% of  1/100,000th of a ~1 day development website isnt worth a fortune.. certainly not 60,000 BTC.

As for Adminsorted; it looks like a scam to me and it appears you are the only one buying it. Even if its not a scam, the total of bids is 0. You can claim its worth 1 BTC or 100BTC per share, if no one has an interest in buying it at any price, then its worth..  zero. If you dont believe me, put your shares up for sale and see who buys them at your "FMV".

The same goes for most of your other shares. You can say they are worth X but if the market is only willing to pay  1/2x or 1/3x, then how does that even make sense? You may think you know better than the market, but then you should act on it and your trackrecord shows your market prediction rate is... not very good and consistenly overoptimistic. Dont you learn from your blunders mistakes?

Lastly, allowing shareholders to pick and chose is a bad idea, because your idea of valuation is not in tune with the market at all. You would allow the first shareholders to pick up the shares that actually have a resale value close to 1BTC, and the others will be left with rubbish. Nice way to screw those who have faith in you.

One more thing
The fair market value is the price at which the property would change hands between a willing buyer and a willing seller, neither being under any compulsion to buy or to sell and both having reasonable knowledge of relevant facts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_market_value

Show us your willing buyers for any of the assets you are listing well above GLSBE average. If there arent any, then your FMV isnt FMV.

[Deprived]

Don't be a 'tard. We're in the process of selling assets and buying back shares. Over 1100 shares were bought back in the last couple of weeks.

How many of those 1100 shares were bought back from the public via GLBSE as opposed to bought back at "FMV" from your own companies via private transfer?  Nyan seems to have managed to divest itself of nearly all its assets - the assets that supposedly secure nyan.a and nyan.b

"Holders of NYAN.B are guaranteed second claim (after holders of NYAN.A) to any holdings, bitcoins or other assets of NYAN."

Shame those assets all vanished back to CPA (by selling off its nyan.a/b/c ahead of other people trying to sell then buying back its own shares from CPA).

Oh - and:

"The value of NYAN.A shares is guaranteed by CPA and NYAN against capital loss via the reasonably timely maintenance of a bidwall at 0.99 bitcoins per fund unit."

bidwall's still missing - has been for days.  145 nyan.a shares on market at .99 or less and only a trading volume of <5 BTC worth of them in last 5 days.

Yes - I saw your local rule thing.  No need to quote me to point it out.  But if YOU won't follow what's in the OP of your threads (e.g. the nyan.a bidwall) then you can hardly expect anyone else to.

How is that relevant to this thread?  Well CPA are supposed to be guaranteeing nyan.a by maintaining that bid-wall (your words, quoted above, not mine).  If they can't do that then their guarantee of value for nyan.a is defunct - and you shouldn't be closing down nyan.b before nyan.a.  Normally in a tranched security the senior tranche (nyan.a here) is closed out first.  Whilst nyan.a had a credible guarantee it seemed reasonable to not enforce that.  But if CPA is now refusing/unable to honour its guarantee (and YES - you knew it wasn't: I pointed it out a few times before) then you really should be closing out the senior tranche first.