[PRE-ANN] Expanse (EXP) - Fair Mining, Fair Launch, No ICO, Based on Ethereum.

[kadrek]

I hope you manage to launch this better than SHIFT. That one looks like garbage to me after reading up on it a bit.

This one looks as garbage as SHIFT. I'm most excited for a 0% premined ETH clone. It would be amazing if someone could change the algo to CPU only and somehow prevent any 1 person from getting over 0.01% of the coins.

Umm... have you heard of botnets?

[hankman]

I hope you manage to launch this better than SHIFT. That one looks like garbage to me after reading up on it a bit.

This one looks as garbage as SHIFT. I'm most excited for a 0% premined ETH clone. It would be amazing if someone could change the algo to CPU only and somehow prevent any 1 person from getting over 0.01% of the coins.

Umm... have you heard of botnets?

Yes I have. It's a reason why CPUs mining sucks. If only there could be fair mining. Oh well. I will mine this coin once its released. It's not like there is anything better to mine.

[SpeedDemon13]

Guess EXP can learn from what Ethereum and SHF have made a mistake at; make things more user friendly to the masses. A gui wallet with a daemon running inside it and maybe a gui miner. Also, don't rush it, rather have a polish product than a heap of hot mess. I've mined both ETH and currently SHF, so far the same experience as far as mining goes. Strangely I get 71 MHS with SHF compared to 68 MHS on ETH with 3 HD 7970's. Hopefully DAPPS will be more simple to create in the future.

[proletariat]

Guess EXP can learn from what Ethereum and SHF have made a mistake at; make things more user friendly to the masses. A gui wallet with a daemon running inside it and maybe a gui miner. Also, don't rush it, rather have a polish product than a heap of hot mess. I've mined both ETH and currently SHF, so far the same experience as far as mining goes. Strangely I get 71 MHS with SHF compared to 68 MHS on ETH with 3 HD 7970's. Hopefully DAPPS will be more simple to create in the future.

Couldn't agree more. Hope they take their time. the one with the larger user base will come out on top and for that it all needs to make sense to to the regular folk who will just want to use their hashing power without having to RTFM 17 times.

[SpeedDemon13]

Guess EXP can learn from what Ethereum and SHF have made a mistake at; make things more user friendly to the masses. A gui wallet with a daemon running inside it and maybe a gui miner. Also, don't rush it, rather have a polish product than a heap of hot mess. I've mined both ETH and currently SHF, so far the same experience as far as mining goes. Strangely I get 71 MHS with SHF compared to 68 MHS on ETH with 3 HD 7970's. Hopefully DAPPS will be more simple to create in the future.

Couldn't agree more. Hope they take their time. the one with the larger user base will come out on top and for that it all needs to make sense to to the regular folk who will just want to use their hashing power without having to RTFM 17 times.

A lot of devs just assume that everyone that mines and/or involved in crypto are IT people, like myself in computer networking. But majority are just people that just know basic computer skills: ie. word, browser, gaming, etc.... What ever crypto can simplify adoption, is transparent in agendas, promotes well with great PR, truly democratic with no censorship, make a solid team and have a useful circulating currency will come on top of things, maybe even surpass BTC and other top digital currencies.

[altcoinex]

I hope you manage to launch this better than SHIFT. That one looks like garbage to me after reading up on it a bit.

This one looks as garbage as SHIFT. I'm most excited for a 0% premined ETH clone. It would be amazing if someone could change the algo to CPU only and somehow prevent any 1 person from getting over 0.01% of the coins.

CPU only is a myth.

[tromp]

CPU only is a myth.

"CPU only" means "No performance advantage for GPU"

(a more subtle meaning would be No performance/watt advantage for GPU,
but since electricity is considered "free" in some circumstances, I prefer the
simpler notion of absolute performance, which is also much easier to measure).

How is that a myth?

[8-bit-Party]

CPU only is a myth.

"CPU only" means "No performance advantage for GPU"

(a more subtle meaning would be No performance/watt advantage for GPU,
but since electricity is considered "free" in some circumstances, I prefer the
simpler notion of absolute performance, which is also much easier to measure).

How is that a myth?

Let's talk about Yeti.

[altcoinex]

Guess EXP can learn from what Ethereum and SHF have made a mistake at; make things more user friendly to the masses. A gui wallet with a daemon running inside it and maybe a gui miner. Also, don't rush it, rather have a polish product than a heap of hot mess. I've mined both ETH and currently SHF, so far the same experience as far as mining goes. Strangely I get 71 MHS with SHF compared to 68 MHS on ETH with 3 HD 7970's. Hopefully DAPPS will be more simple to create in the future.

We are def using eth and shift for lessons on what to do and not to do, but I think for the most part people are unfairly judgmental towards those projects due to having expectations higher than what was promised. If dev's DON'T promise you something, it's odd people get so mad when its not there. Shift has said over and over it is a hobby project, made by hobbyist developers and its dev's make no claims other than that, so its hard to hold them to any expectation higher than that; If they do deliver more, awesome, they exceed expectations, but if not then you can't really be too upset.

In Ethereums case, the frontier release is supposed to be for exchanges and mining backends, not for end users. This was documented and said to be the case for almost a year leading up to it, but when it launched without a end user GUI despite being meant just as a backend in that release, people flipped and said 'Ethereum is a failure'. Sure, Eth might of made more people happy and like it more if they rushed in a GUI, but in my opinion they are ignoring what the hive mind wants and doing what's best for its development. I am fully behind the ETH team on those choices. Sure some end users might think jive of it for now, but in another year it will be properly developed and stable and those users will be won back over.

All that being said, we are not a hobbyist project; We are a team composed of experienced developers and industry figures with full time commitments to this project. We realize end-users make up the majority of use of these platforms, and want our initial release to cater comfortably to them. We feel it is important for regular non overly technical users to have an easy intuitive time doing basic and or even complex tasks on the platform. We have a very nice GUI with basic functionality ready for launch for account and transaction management, as well as our version of alethzero for contract management. Following soon after will be our implementation of 'Mist' allowing users to easily browse and utilize Dapps and Contacts on the network. Software as well as detailed and easy to follow quick-start guides and documentation on installation and use will be available PRIOR to launch, allowing users to prepare their mining or client environments adequately ahead of launch to promote fair mining and ease of use to users.

Guess EXP can learn from what Ethereum and SHF have made a mistake at; make things more user friendly to the masses. A gui wallet with a daemon running inside it and maybe a gui miner. Also, don't rush it, rather have a polish product than a heap of hot mess. I've mined both ETH and currently SHF, so far the same experience as far as mining goes. Strangely I get 71 MHS with SHF compared to 68 MHS on ETH with 3 HD 7970's. Hopefully DAPPS will be more simple to create in the future.

Couldn't agree more. Hope they take their time. the one with the larger user base will come out on top and for that it all needs to make sense to to the regular folk who will just want to use their hashing power without having to RTFM 17 times.

We are working very hard, fast, and diligently as a day in the crypto space is a month in traditional business, but we are professionals and as such will not rush anything out. It is out hope that our work will speak for itself -- there is no need for us to try to draw lines between us and any other project in the crypto space. We are confident the quality of our work will represent it's value. Our Full announcement is coming out very soon, so stay tuned!

[altcoinex]

CPU only is a myth.

"CPU only" means "No performance advantage for GPU"

(a more subtle meaning would be No performance/watt advantage for GPU,
but since electricity is considered "free" in some circumstances, I prefer the
simpler notion of absolute performance, which is also much easier to measure).

How is that a myth?

It is a myth in that it has not yet been demonstrated. As far as I know (and of course, I am not all knowing) there is no design for a cpu only algo that can (and has) not been made to be drastically outperformed by a GPU. Certainly many have been claimed, but disproven. Again, I am not omniscient so it is entirely possible it is out there somewhere, possibly even in plain sight and of common knowledge(just not to MY knowledge)... -- I would love for my own academic reasons to see and study one if there is, so please do provide a link if you are aware of any. 

[tromp]

CPU only is a myth.

"CPU only" means "No performance advantage for GPU"

(a more subtle meaning would be No performance/watt advantage for GPU,
but since electricity is considered "free" in some circumstances, I prefer the
simpler notion of absolute performance, which is also much easier to measure).

How is that a myth?

It is a myth in that it has not yet been demonstrated. As far as I know (and of course, I am not all knowing) there is no design for a cpu only algo that can (and has) not been made to be drastically outperformed by a GPU. Certainly many have been claimed, but disproven. Again, I am not omniscient so it is entirely possible it is out there somewhere, possibly even in plain sight and of common knowledge(just not to MY knowledge)... -- I would love for my own academic reasons to see and study one if there is, so please do provide a link if you are aware of any.  

The reason why so many "cpu-only" claiming PoWs were disproven, is that they
were doing too much computation. Of course, a GPU is going to excel at doing computation.

In contrast, in my Cuckoo Cycle PoW, mining is designed to *avoid* computation, just doing the minimum possible computation to generate random accesses to arbitrary scalable amounts of memory.
In mining, the majority of runtime is spent waiting for global memory access latency, which also
makes it a rather energy efficient PoW.

The reason it can scale memory arbitrarily is that, unlike almost every other "memory hard" design,
this proof of work is asymmetric, so verification remains instant and requires no memory at all.

There's a $500 bounty on convincingly disproving my claim that GPUs have no advantage over CPUs, see

https://github.com/tromp/cuckoo

which also has a whitepaper.

[8-bit-Party]

There's a $500 bounty on convincingly disproving my claim that GPUs have no advantage over CPUs, see

What do you expect with $500 bounty?

[proletariat]

The reason why so many "cpu-only" claiming PoWs were disproven, is that they
were doing too much computation. Of course, a GPU is going to excel at doing computation.

In contrast, in my Cuckoo Cycle PoW, mining is designed to *avoid* computation, just doing the minimum possible computation to generate random accesses to arbitrary scalable amounts of memory.
In mining, the majority of runtime is spent waiting for global memory access latency, which also
makes it a rather energy efficient PoW.

The reason it can scale memory arbitrarily is that, unlike almost every other "memory hard" design,
this proof of work is asymmetric, so verification remains instant and requires no memory at all.

There's a $500 bounty on convincingly disproving my claim that GPUs have no advantage over CPUs, see

https://github.com/tromp/cuckoo

which also has a whitepaper.

Is Cuckoo currently used in any coin? sounds like a very fair distribution method.

[8-bit-Party]

Is Cuckoo currently used in any coin? sounds like a very fair distribution method.

Very fair. Malware distributors are happy. Botnets know what to do. Geez.

[proletariat]

Is Cuckoo currently used in any coin? sounds like a very fair distribution method.

Very fair. Malware distributors are happy. Botnets know what to do. Geez.

  Sorry, didn't know it was malware, first time I've read about it.

*edit* I see what you mean... but the point is gpu has no advantage over cuckoo apparently

[8-bit-Party]

Advantage over what
One cpu?
Two cpu?
3453 cpu?

[mistercoin]

Chris Franko has my full support. A very talented developer, and a good person. One of the very few I have ever trusted and supported since coming into the cryptocoin scene back in 2011. Looking forward to this project. If you guys need any resources, you can drop me a PM.

Mistercoin-

[tromp]

Is Cuckoo currently used in any coin? sounds like a very fair distribution method.

No; it's not in use as far as I know.

As to fair distribution, that depends more on the reward schedule than on the PoW.
Nothing is fair when the majority of coins is released in a few weeks, or even a few days.

A fair distribution would start with negligible rewards, which slowly climb over a period
of months, to reach their peak in maybe a year, when mining software has had a chance to mature
and spread to many platforms (e.g. phones charging overnight), and then slowly decline over many years.

[tyz]

Same here. On the first look, it looks promising but when you read some little more than the project seems not really professional. Hope that changes.

I hope you manage to launch this better than SHIFT. That one looks like garbage to me after reading up on it a bit.

[CryptoClub]

Guess EXP can learn from what Ethereum and SHF have made a mistake at; make things more user friendly to the masses. A gui wallet with a daemon running inside it and maybe a gui miner. Also, don't rush it, rather have a polish product than a heap of hot mess. I've mined both ETH and currently SHF, so far the same experience as far as mining goes. Strangely I get 71 MHS with SHF compared to 68 MHS on ETH with 3 HD 7970's. Hopefully DAPPS will be more simple to create in the future.

Couldn't agree more. Hope they take their time. the one with the larger user base will come out on top and for that it all needs to make sense to to the regular folk who will just want to use their hashing power without having to RTFM 17 times.

A lot of devs just assume that everyone that mines and/or involved in crypto are IT people, like myself in computer networking. But majority are just people that just know basic computer skills: ie. word, browser, gaming, etc.... What ever crypto can simplify adoption, is transparent in agendas, promotes well with great PR, truly democratic with no censorship, make a solid team and have a useful circulating currency will come on top of things, maybe even surpass BTC and other top digital currencies.

We will have a public mining test for anyone that wants to test mining before the launch. So everyone that needs to can learn how to set it up in a non competitive environment and be ready for the actual launch. As we are not ninja launching or instamining, or any of that sort of trickery, we can just have a totally fair launch where everyone that wants to be a part of it has a fair and equal start. Obviously if we do this with public test mining, that would be on a testnet and not be actual coins/tokens. We think it is very important to really include everyone that wants to be a part of Expanse.