I ran Bitcoin Core for >3 years, and I turned it off today

[jl2012]

I ran Bitcoin Core for >3 years, and I turned it off today

I am now running Bitcoin**Censored**

[manselr]

I ran Bitcoin Core for >3 years, and I turned it off today

I am now running Bitcoin**Censored**

Bitcoin censored?? Did you mean Bitcoin XT?
Anyone can tell me what is the % of current nodes to see where we are at today in terms of adoption? I want to know who is winning this exciting battle.

[Hexadecibel]

Hey, I turned my Bitcoin Core node off today too!

[Lauda]

Bitcoin censored?? Did you mean Bitcoin XT?
Anyone can tell me what is the % of current nodes to see where we are at today in terms of adoption? I want to know who is winning this exciting battle.

You can always view the current node count for Bitcoin XT here.



There is a small increase in August, however nothing significant. Bitcoin Core is winning by far.

Hey, I turned my Bitcoin Core node off today too!

Why today in particular? But then again, I'm seeing this:"This user's password was reset recently.".

[AtomicStrike]

Only alliance of big chinese miners can switch blockchain to Bitcoin XT. Seems I have to wait some time.

[jl2012]

Bitcoin censored?? Did you mean Bitcoin XT?
Anyone can tell me what is the % of current nodes to see where we are at today in terms of adoption? I want to know who is winning this exciting battle.

You can always view the current node count for Bitcoin XT here.



There is a small increase in August, however nothing significant. Bitcoin Core is winning by far.

Hey, I turned my Bitcoin Core node off today too!

Why today in particular?

Yes, it's at ATH but still nothing significant

[jl2012]

I ran Bitcoin Core for >3 years, and I turned it off today

I am now running Bitcoin**Censored**

Bitcoin censored?? Did you mean Bitcoin XT?

 

[pedrog]

Why today?

Something happened?

[Hexadecibel]

Why today?

Something happened?

Active censorship of BitcoinXT and big block discussion.

[dserrano5]

I ran Bitcoin Core for >3 years, and I turned it off today

I am now running Bitcoin**Censored**

You must be proud

[dothebeats]

Bitcoin censored?? Did you mean Bitcoin XT?
Anyone can tell me what is the % of current nodes to see where we are at today in terms of adoption? I want to know who is winning this exciting battle.

You can always view the current node count for Bitcoin XT here.



There is a small increase in August, however nothing significant. Bitcoin Core is winning by far.

Hey, I turned my Bitcoin Core node off today too!

Why today in particular?

Yes, it's at ATH but still nothing significant

But still it's gaining traction.

I'm a small fish. I must wait for the school to go which way before I follow suite. 

[meono]

I switched all my nodes to Bitcoin XT too.

Fuck censorship.

[tspacepilot]

Why today?

Something happened?

Active censorship of BitcoinXT and big block discussion.

Okay, I don't know all the background.  What are you guys talking about with "censored"?  Can someone at least drop a link to further information about this?

[gentlemand]

Okay, I don't know all the background.  What are you guys talking about with "censored"?  Can someone at least drop a link to further information about this?

Theymos regards it as an alt. Discussions on r/Bitcoin have been deleted. Discussion here is being moved to the alt section.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3gdad5/meta_on_hardforking_if_bitcoin_is_so_vulnerable/

I don't think all that many other people agree with that stance.

[dothebeats]

Okay, I don't know all the background.  What are you guys talking about with "censored"?  Can someone at least drop a link to further information about this?

Theymos regards it as an alt. Discussions on r/Bitcoin have been deleted. Discussion here is being moved to the alt section.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3gdad5/meta_on_hardforking_if_bitcoin_is_so_vulnerable/

I don't think all that many other people agree with that stance.

I already see the problem now. Censorship. Idk why but if we cannot talk about *toot* in here, how can we actively discuss about the future things we can do to solve things? Also, I see no reason to censor *toot* on the subreddit. A healthy debate between which is superior to which is great, because it involves the thought of the community, not only those who are in control. Just a thought.

[Nas]

Well, good for you. I don't think any sane brain would switch from the greatest technology to a random fork/altcoin.

[DooMAD]

Well, good for you. I don't think any sane brain would switch from the greatest technology to a random fork/altcoin.

It's not an altcoin, it uses Bitcoin's existing blockchain and will continue to do so until a majority of miners and nodes are running the new code.  The fork only happens when consensus is reached.  It's not "random" and several mining pools are pushing for 8mb blocks.  Might not be the best idea to question their sanity, I'm pretty sure they understand the situation better than you do.

[dothebeats]

Well, good for you. I don't think any sane brain would switch from the greatest technology to a random fork/altcoin.

I don't think it should be called an altcoin because it is still based from the existing bitcoin code, just added some few codes on it to enlarge the block size limit to 8mb. It's been around for months now and the discussions are happening here and there. Many big pools are pushing for it too, and I don't see it happening to a random fork/altcoin yet.

[RoadTrain]

I switched all my nodes to Bitcoin XT too.

Fuck censorship.

Does it mean you switched your nodes just to fuck censorship? Are you not afraid of Bitcoin being fucked instead (ever considered implications)?
 

[Swordsoffreedom]

Well, good for you. I don't think any sane brain would switch from the greatest technology to a random fork/altcoin.

I don't think it should be called an altcoin because it is still based from the existing bitcoin code, just added some few codes on it to enlarge the block size limit to 8mb. It's been around for months now and the discussions are happening here and there. Many big pools are pushing for it too, and I don't see it happening to a random fork/altcoin yet.

It's technically an alt-coin as long as its using the main chain of Bitcoin until it gets consensus status
That said your right that it's more along the lines of a Bitcoin-related fork in my opinion but a new section for Bitcoin-XT was not made so guess Theymos had no choice but to regulate to alt-coins or see a wall of this discussion in Bitcoin.

[smoothie]

i think this is a turning point.

yes quote me on this.

The losses of nodes over the past 2 months  (from the previous ATH) have been gained back and then some in 3 days time.

Like technical analysis on markets this too is in a sense, a market.

ATH is a clear sign of things to come.

I'll be switching over today as well.

[NorrisK]

I switched all my nodes to Bitcoin XT too.

Fuck censorship.

Does it mean you switched your nodes just to fuck censorship? Are you not afraid of Bitcoin being fucked instead (ever considered implications)?
 

Unless they agree with the changes made in Bitcoin XT and don't think it will fuck them over in the end.. It is not that bad I guess..

[unamis76]

I am also switching, at least for now, and I'm planning my first 24/7 full node. It will be using XT too.

[DooMAD]

That said your right that it's more along the lines of a Bitcoin-related fork in my opinion but a new section for Bitcoin-XT was not made so guess Theymos had no choice but to regulate to alt-coins or see a wall of this discussion in Bitcoin.

We don't know for certain which mod it was, but they definitely had a choice where to move it to.  There's been a subforum for alternative clients for as long as I can remember, so it's either an act of ignorance or malice on their part to move it into altcoins.  Even if it doesn't have it's own dedicated subforum like MultiBit/Electrum/Armory/etc it could still have gone in there. 

But in a way, it's probably a positive thing they did move it to alts.  They've drawn far more attention to it this way than it otherwise would have got.  Silly small-blockians accidentally sabotaging their own cause yet again.  Keep up the good work, guys.  Your help has been invaluable. 

[Mickeyb]

Well I guess that community had enough of this debate and that bitcoiners are slowly taking the matters in their hands. I think this is exactly what Gavin had in mind, if you won't listen to me than let the users say what they want. But also, this is exactly what I have been afraid of, we are dividing our community and I guess in not so long we will have 2 Bitcoins listed on the coinmarketcap, an old Bitcoin and the Bitcoin XT.

I don't like this division at all!

[tspacepilot]

Okay, I don't know all the background.  What are you guys talking about with "censored"?  Can someone at least drop a link to further information about this?

Theymos regards it as an alt. Discussions on r/Bitcoin have been deleted. Discussion here is being moved to the alt section.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3gdad5/meta_on_hardforking_if_bitcoin_is_so_vulnerable/

I don't think all that many other people agree with that stance.

Oh my, that's pretty controversial for sure.  Mentioning XT gets you moved to altcoins?  Are all the mods doing this?  You linked to the meta in reddit, I'm not on reddit, I haven't seen this in bitcointalk but then again I miss a lot since I'm not on here 24/7.

[dothebeats]

Well I guess that community had enough of this debate and that bitcoiners are slowly taking the matters in their hands. I think this is exactly what Gavin had in mind, if you won't listen to me than let the users say what they want. But also, this is exactly what I have been afraid of, we are dividing our community and I guess in not so long we will have 2 Bitcoins listed on the coinmarketcap, an old Bitcoin and the Bitcoin XT.

I don't like this division at all!

Well the division is only present until there is no consensus as to what would really happen. If XT gained that 75% of the votes, then the rest of the users, whether they like it or not, should change their clients immediately for their transactions to be included in the valid chain. Also, what is happenin around in the discussions are purely reasoning and logic, and authority shouldn't in any way get in between.

Will switch over to xt as soon as 75% is reached. I will miss qt but this is for the good of bitcoin in general.

[gentlemand]

I guess in not so long we will have 2 Bitcoins listed on the coinmarketcap, an old Bitcoin and the Bitcoin XT.

That's in no one's interest. People go where the money is. The money will be where the majority decide what block size they want and it looks like some sort of decision might arrive sooner than we expect.

The opposition can squeal all they want but no one'll give a shit about them by then. They'll have to fall in line or fade away.

[gentlemand]

Mentioning XT gets you moved to altcoins?  Are all the mods doing this? 

Yes.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1148679.msg12102884#msg12102884

I assume they'll realise they're fighting a losing battle pretty rapidly. No one but a crusty handful believes it's a valid course.

[Alley]

Nobody is going to mine a bitcoin with 10% of the hashingpower of the real bitcoin after the fork.  The dust will settle after only a few blocks in my opinion and the losers will quickly switch over with their tail between their legs.  The fuders spreading lies about XT are just as bad as the speculation trolls.

[dothebeats]

Mentioning XT gets you moved to altcoins?  Are all the mods doing this? 

Yes.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1148679.msg12102884#msg12102884

I assume they'll realise they're fighting a losing battle pretty rapidly. No one but a crusty handful believes it's a valid course.

They have their reasons for sure. Let me quote theymos' statement for you:

I'm impressed at the level of Bitcoin knowledge of bitcointalk.org users compared to /r/Bitcoin users. Most of the people in this thread and other similar threads are interpreting the issues correctly (or at least with some evidence of actual thought), unlike most Redditors.

I don't think it makes sense to call Bitcoin XT an alt-coin anymore than it does the current version of Bitcoin Core, which has hard-forked several times since it was introduced.  Furthermore, Bitcoin Core will only fork away from Bitcoin XT when XT has 75% of the hash power behind it.

Bitcoin's hardforks (though some people don't classify them as hardforks) were done with consensus among the the Bitcoin community/economy/experts. In the current state of the debate, any max block size increase won't have consensus, though I think that consensus on a compromise proposal might be achievable in 6-18 months.

Activating a hardfork based on what miners do is really bad. You could easily have a situation where 75% of miners support XT but none of the big Bitcoin exchanges or businesses do. Then miners would start mining coins that they couldn't spend anywhere useful, and SPV users would find that they can't transact with the businesses they want to deal with. The currency would be split, and in this case XT would be in a far weaker position than Bitcoin. The possibility of this sort of network/currency split is what makes XT not a "legitimate hardfork", but rather the programmed creation of an altcoin. A consensus hardfork can only go forward once it has been determined that it's nearly impossible for the Bitcoin economy to split in any significant way. Not every Bitcoin user on Earth has to agree, but enough that there won't be a noticeable split.

Bitcoin is not ruled by miners. In a hardfork, miners barely matter at all. (Softforks are different.) What's important is what the economy does.

[gentlemand]

They have their reasons for sure. Let me quote theymos' statement for you:

This is a possible potential future for Bitcoin - ergo it belongs in areas that discuss Bitcoin.

I can't see any valid reason to stifle it.

[jbrnt]

Mentioning XT gets you moved to altcoins?  Are all the mods doing this?

Yes.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1148679.msg12102884#msg12102884
I assume they'll realise they're fighting a losing battle pretty rapidly. No one but a crusty handful believes it's a valid course.

Why? Bitcoin XT is an alternate client. Same as other clients like Electrum and MultiBit. It hasn't forked yet, and Bitcoin XT will always remain an alt client if there is no majority. Currently, Bitcoin XT does not receive and send an altcoin, it sends bitcoin! This is a mistake. BitcoinTalk mods are better than this.  

[meono]

I switched all my nodes to Bitcoin XT too.

Fuck censorship.

Does it mean you switched your nodes just to fuck censorship? Are you not afraid of Bitcoin being fucked instead (ever considered implications)?
 

Nope nice try to spin it.

I know what i support unlike many noobs on here. If you're against it good for you. You're entitled to your opinion but stop spreading BS fud.

[tsoPANos]

That's bad.  
We need to realize that split only does harm to bitcoin ecosystem.
I know that theymos acted a bit 'conservatively' but it was a defensive
move to protect bitcoin. Although I disagree with his behavior, I am deeply
disappointed about how easy Mike Hearn is willing to split the community in half
in excuse of an issue which can be resolved through human talk.

[meono]

Mentioning XT gets you moved to altcoins?  Are all the mods doing this?

Yes.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1148679.msg12102884#msg12102884
I assume they'll realise they're fighting a losing battle pretty rapidly. No one but a crusty handful believes it's a valid course.

Why? Bitcoin XT is an alternate client. Same as other clients like Electrum and MultiBit. It hasn't forked yet, and Bitcoin XT will always remain an alt client if there is no majority. Currently, Bitcoin XT does not receive and send an altcoin, it sends bitcoin! This is a mistake. BitcoinTalk mods are better than this.  

The fact that they're trying to censor it shows they're affraid. Call bitcoin XT an altcoin is the dumbest shit i've seen.

Im not a noob I've been on this forum since 2011 b4 the first bubble. We got many folks since. If you censor because you're afraid ppl will choose to folk you're losing the battle.

Bitcoiners DO NOT have to follow the core dev. This isnt a cult.

[meono]

That's bad.  
We need to realize that split only does harm to bitcoin ecosystem.
I know that theymos acted a bit 'conservatively' but it was a defensive
move to protect bitcoin. Although I disagree with his behavior, I am deeply
disappointed about how easy Mike Hearn is willing to split the community in half
in excuse of an issue which can be resolved through human talk.

Its not a defensive move censorship never works. If you allow ppl to discuss freely thats when they can learn the truth and facts. Theymos is noone but an admin of this forum.

[mallard]

Mentioning XT gets you moved to altcoins?  Are all the mods doing this?

Yes.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1148679.msg12102884#msg12102884
I assume they'll realise they're fighting a losing battle pretty rapidly. No one but a crusty handful believes it's a valid course.

Why? Bitcoin XT is an alternate client. Same as other clients like Electrum and MultiBit. It hasn't forked yet, and Bitcoin XT will always remain an alt client if there is no majority. Currently, Bitcoin XT does not receive and send an altcoin, it sends bitcoin! This is a mistake. BitcoinTalk mods are better than this.  

The fact that they're trying to censor it shows they're affraid. Call bitcoin XT an altcoin is the dumbest shit i've seen.

Im not a noob I've been on this forum since 2011 b4 the first bubble. We got many folks since. If you censor because you're afraid ppl will choose to folk you're losing the battle.

Bitcoiners DO NOT have to follow the core dev. This isnt a cult.

It's not being censored, you're all just paranoid.

[steven.G999]

I'll dump all my bitcoins and never buy again if majority of people choose Bitcoin XT. Some people want war for unknown reason and it's just the end of this tech.

[allthingsluxury]

What was the reasoning for the switch?

[kevindurant]

I ran Bitcoin Core for >3 years, and I turned it off today

I am now running Bitcoin**Censored**

As a Legendary member you are here since the beginning. Why did you turn it off? Did you lose faith in Bitcoin?

[lottery248]

I switched all my nodes to Bitcoin XT too.

Fuck censorship.

yeah, plus one.
censor others = with the people under the censorship.
but bitcoin XT is really horrible that will encourage fork transaction spam.

[ticoti]

Can you tell us the motivations that led you to that decision?

[johnyj]

I just turned off my core node yesterday and hooked in a 3TB disk and turned it back on Should be enough for another couple of years

And I did not touch the software (still at 0.10.0). Even banks only upgrade their core software every 5 years, a global financial system like bitcoin should upgrade only every 10 years

Stability is all it counts in finance. Don't fix it if it ain't broken, and even when a fix is needed, should be as small as possible to not disturb the whole financial system

[lottery248]

I just turned off my core node yesterday and hooked in a 3TB disk and turned it back on Should be enough for another couple of years

And I did not touch the software (still at 0.10.0). Even banks only upgrade their core software every 5 years, a global financial system like bitcoin should upgrade only every 10 years

Stability is all it counts in finance. Don't fix it if it ain't broken, and even when a fix is needed, should be as small as possible to not disturb the whole financial system

if your HDD did not break, it would help you to sustain with bitcoin Qt for at least 27 years.
wow that's weird. however, if with bitcoin XT, your HDD would be full within 8 years as estimated due to the block limit doubles.
i don't wanna see 20 million transactions per block in which more than 90% of the transactions were with little output(especially if they did not put any fees), in the future with XT.

[monsanto]

Where do the exchanges stand on this?

[kelsey]

well i gave up on bitcoin long time ago, and current shit with Mike and tag along core devs makes me glad of that decisions 21 million times over.

[Brad Harrison]

so bitcoin xt is censored?

[gentlemand]

so bitcoin xt is censored?

Not censored, more reclassified and redirected to altland.

[bathrobehero]

This is so childish it's beyond belief. /r/bitcoin is for discussions (which are not being banned), but not for promoting software that would split bitcoin in two. Most people in /r/bitcoin has zero idea of the implications XT would cause and going apeshit over their own incompetence.

[johnyj]

I just turned off my core node yesterday and hooked in a 3TB disk and turned it back on Should be enough for another couple of years

And I did not touch the software (still at 0.10.0). Even banks only upgrade their core software every 5 years, a global financial system like bitcoin should upgrade only every 10 years

Stability is all it counts in finance. Don't fix it if it ain't broken, and even when a fix is needed, should be as small as possible to not disturb the whole financial system

if your HDD did not break, it would help you to sustain with bitcoin Qt for at least 27 years.
wow that's weird. however, if with bitcoin XT, your HDD would be full within 8 years as estimated due to the block limit doubles.
i don't wanna see 20 million transactions per block in which more than 90% of the transactions were with little output(especially if they did not put any fees), in the future with XT.

I think today's computer can handle 50GB data at acceptable speed, anything beyond that becomes too slow due to bandwidth and hard disk speed limit (for traditional hard disks).

An encouraging new development is 4KTV. A 4K bluray disk is about to reach 100GB, and by the time bitcoin blockchain reached 100GB, mainstream computers should all be able to handle that amount of data without difficulty. And something like 3d xpoint might vastly change the computer devices to magnitudes higher speed and capacity. But until that happens, I sit tight

[Soros Shorts]

Even though I don't support it, I have some respect for people who run their own Bitcoin XT node in order to show their backing for it. This is in contrast to those pikers who don't even run a full node yet keep asking for bigger blocks in the hope that this would allow them to continue sending their 30 cent micro transactions for zero fees.

[viboracecata]

Sell our own bitcoins on core chain;

After the switching from core chain to XT chain accomplished, the previous bitcoins are still available, can we proceed the operations?

[jl2012]

Sell our own bitcoins on core chain;

After the switching from core chain to XT chain accomplished, the previous bitcoins are still available, can we proceed the operations?

Yes, you just need to "taint" your bitcoin with newly generated bitcoin. After the first >1MB block is generated,

1. Ask someone to send you some bitcoin (1 satoshi is enough) which is generated on the new chain after the fork (or taint bitcoin created with this method)

2. Using an upgraded client (e.g. Bitcoin XT), create a new address and send all your bitcoin to yourself . Most importantly, the transaction input has to include the bitcoin from step 1. Wait for several confirmations.

3. Now you have 2 independent sets of bitcoin. You can safely send your old bitcoin to other people using an old client, e.g. Bitcoin Core 0.11.

Note:

a. It is very important to make sure the bitcoin from step 1 is truly taint bitcoin. Use a block explorer to follow the history of the coin, to make sure at least one of its ancestors is a coinbase transaction AFTER the first >1MB block is generated. A merely activation of BIP101 (i.e. 750 out of 1000 blocks support) is not enough. The fork does not happen until the first >1MB block is generated

b. If you send your old/new bitcoin to someone before step 2 is done, you are at the same sending your new/old bitcoin to that person.

c. If the fork is really successful, it is unlikely that you will be able to spend your old bitcoin, because no miner will be mining the chain. Even if a few miners are running, the small block size won't be able to handle your transaction.

[jl2012]

Where do the exchanges stand on this?

Houbi and BTCChina support 8MB: http://cointelegraph.com/news/114577/chinese-mining-pools-propose-alternative-8-mb-block-size

[RoadTrain]

This is so childish it's beyond belief. /r/bitcoin is for discussions (which are not being banned), but not for promoting software that would split bitcoin in two. Most people in /r/bitcoin has zero idea of the implications XT would cause and going apeshit over their own incompetence.

Exactly... And what's worse is that we have some $4 billion market cap at stake... I'm out of words to say how irresponsible some people are.

[Dire]

I ran Bitcoin Core for >3 years, and I turned it off today

Whatever you choose, thank you for your service, and that goes for all other miners too. You carried the flame during an important phase of the Bitcoin revolution.
 

[johnyj]

Sell our own bitcoins on core chain;

After the switching from core chain to XT chain accomplished, the previous bitcoins are still available, can we proceed the operations?

Yes, you just need to "taint" your bitcoin with newly generated bitcoin. After the first >1MB block is generated,

1. Ask someone to send you some bitcoin (1 satoshi is enough) which is generated on the new chain after the fork (or taint bitcoin created with this method)

2. Using an upgraded client (e.g. Bitcoin XT), create a new address and send all your bitcoin to yourself . Most importantly, the transaction input has to include the bitcoin from step 1. Wait for several confirmations.

3. Now you have 2 independent sets of bitcoin. You can safely send your old bitcoin to other people using an old client, e.g. Bitcoin Core 0.11.

Note:

a. It is very important to make sure the bitcoin from step 1 is truly taint bitcoin. Use a block explorer to follow the history of the coin, to make sure at least one of its ancestors is a coinbase transaction AFTER the first >1MB block is generated. A merely activation of BIP101 (i.e. 750 out of 1000 blocks support) is not enough. The fork does not happen until the first >1MB block is generated

b. If you send your old/new bitcoin to someone before step 2 is done, you are at the same sending your new/old bitcoin to that person.

c. If the fork is really successful, it is unlikely that you will be able to spend your old bitcoin, because no miner will be mining the chain. Even if a few miners are running, the small block size won't be able to handle your transaction.

This is almost suicide

Suppose that 75% of hashing power has switched to XT, and rest 25% stays at core. Is it possible that now XT becomes the main bitcoin chain and everyone moved to that chain following the fork? Far from it

Bitcoin is a whole global financial system, it is not only the blockchain, but everything that builds upon it. There are many exchanges and payment processors, merchants, security service provider and investment funds etc... and you must persuade all these participants to accept the new chain. And I guess many of them are experienced financers which always take conservative approach when it comes to change

Because pre-fork coins can be spent on both chains, if some of them (especially those with large amount of bitcoin holdings, and typically the core supporter of bitcoin) do not like the idea of XT chain, they will dump their coins on the XT exchange, so that any exchanges trades the XT coin will have a near-zero exchange rate when they are facing millions of coins dumped after the fork. And when XT coin worth nothing on exchanges, the whole hash power on XT chain would be a 100% loss, those hash power will switch to core chain, thus core chain regain the hash power and become the longest. In one word, if there is a conflict of interest, it is who have the most bitcoin decide where bitcoin is going, not who have the most hash power

Of course the XT fans can also dump their coins on the core chain, then value on core chain will also be heavily cut, but I guess the core chain would still have less sell pressure due to XT fans have less coins. Anyway this kind of mutual destruction will hurt the ecosystem significantly while achieving nothing

There is always unknown risk on XT coin: Core coin has hold its value very well for several years, but no one knows if XT coin would achieve the same thing, it is not time-tested. So XT coin faces a dilemma: without being time-tested in real economy, it can't gain value and go mainstream, but if it does not go mainstream, it will not get any test... This dilemma will make the fork of bitcoin extremely unlikely. Only a small change, with over 95% consensus throughout the industry would work

[viboracecata]

Sell our own bitcoins on core chain;

After the switching from core chain to XT chain accomplished, the previous bitcoins are still available, can we proceed the operations?

Yes, you just need to "taint" your bitcoin with newly generated bitcoin. After the first >1MB block is generated,

1. Ask someone to send you some bitcoin (1 satoshi is enough) which is generated on the new chain after the fork (or taint bitcoin created with this method)

2. Using an upgraded client (e.g. Bitcoin XT), create a new address and send all your bitcoin to yourself . Most importantly, the transaction input has to include the bitcoin from step 1. Wait for several confirmations.

3. Now you have 2 independent sets of bitcoin. You can safely send your old bitcoin to other people using an old client, e.g. Bitcoin Core 0.11.

Note:

a. It is very important to make sure the bitcoin from step 1 is truly taint bitcoin. Use a block explorer to follow the history of the coin, to make sure at least one of its ancestors is a coinbase transaction AFTER the first >1MB block is generated. A merely activation of BIP101 (i.e. 750 out of 1000 blocks support) is not enough. The fork does not happen until the first >1MB block is generated

b. If you send your old/new bitcoin to someone before step 2 is done, you are at the same sending your new/old bitcoin to that person.

c. If the fork is really successful, it is unlikely that you will be able to spend your old bitcoin, because no miner will be mining the chain. Even if a few miners are running, the small block size won't be able to handle your transaction.

This is almost suicide

Suppose that 75% of hashing power has switched to XT, and rest 25% stays at core. Is it possible that now XT becomes the main bitcoin chain and everyone moved to that chain following the fork? Far from it

Bitcoin is a whole global financial system, it is not only the blockchain, but everything that builds upon it. There are many exchanges and payment processors, merchants, security service provider and investment funds etc... and you must persuade all these participants to accept the new chain. And I guess many of them are experienced financers which always take conservative approach when it comes to change

Because pre-fork coins can be spent on both chains, if some of them (especially those with large amount of bitcoin holdings, and typically the core supporter of bitcoin) do not like the idea of XT chain, they will dump their coins on the XT exchange, so that any exchanges trades the XT coin will have a near-zero exchange rate when they are facing millions of coins dumped after the fork. And when XT coin worth nothing on exchanges, the whole hash power on XT chain would be a 100% loss, those hash power will switch to core chain, thus core chain regain the hash power and become the longest. In one word, if there is a conflict of interest, it is who have the most bitcoin decide where bitcoin is going, not who have the most hash power

Of course the XT fans can also dump their coins on the core chain, then value on core chain will also be heavily cut, but I guess the core chain would still have less sell pressure due to XT fans have less coins. Anyway this kind of mutual destruction will hurt the ecosystem significantly while achieving nothing

There is always unknown risk on XT coin: Core coin has hold its value very well for several years, but no one knows if XT coin would achieve the same thing, it is not time-tested. So XT coin faces a dilemma: without being time-tested in real economy, it can't gain value and go mainstream, but if it does not go mainstream, it will not get any test... This dilemma will make the fork of bitcoin extremely unlikely. Only a small change, with over 95% consensus throughout the industry would work

Core chain is time-tested, it's a fake conclusion, even if it was been tested as safe enough, fair enough, but the transactions proceeding speed is so slow as I can't consider it as one qualified pay method. While the community is not so large, we should import some changes to improve bitcoins, even we may get some pains in the near future.

[jl2012]

Sell our own bitcoins on core chain;

After the switching from core chain to XT chain accomplished, the previous bitcoins are still available, can we proceed the operations?

Yes, you just need to "taint" your bitcoin with newly generated bitcoin. After the first >1MB block is generated,

1. Ask someone to send you some bitcoin (1 satoshi is enough) which is generated on the new chain after the fork (or taint bitcoin created with this method)

2. Using an upgraded client (e.g. Bitcoin XT), create a new address and send all your bitcoin to yourself . Most importantly, the transaction input has to include the bitcoin from step 1. Wait for several confirmations.

3. Now you have 2 independent sets of bitcoin. You can safely send your old bitcoin to other people using an old client, e.g. Bitcoin Core 0.11.

Note:

a. It is very important to make sure the bitcoin from step 1 is truly taint bitcoin. Use a block explorer to follow the history of the coin, to make sure at least one of its ancestors is a coinbase transaction AFTER the first >1MB block is generated. A merely activation of BIP101 (i.e. 750 out of 1000 blocks support) is not enough. The fork does not happen until the first >1MB block is generated

b. If you send your old/new bitcoin to someone before step 2 is done, you are at the same sending your new/old bitcoin to that person.

c. If the fork is really successful, it is unlikely that you will be able to spend your old bitcoin, because no miner will be mining the chain. Even if a few miners are running, the small block size won't be able to handle your transaction.

This is almost suicide

There is nothing suicide in my post. It just tells people how to segregate their coins. How do people spend the coins is a different issue

[cellard]

I ran Bitcoin Core for >3 years, and I turned it off today

I am now running Bitcoin**Censored**

As a Legendary member you are here since the beginning. Why did you turn it off? Did you lose faith in Bitcoin?

Im guessing he is now a supporter of XT? Either this or he got tired of running a node and is using a SPV type of wallet.

[TinEye]

I ran Bitcoin Core for >3 years, and I turned it off today

I am now running Bitcoin**Censored**

As a Legendary member you are here since the beginning. Why did you turn it off? Did you lose faith in Bitcoin?

no man, he turned if off because he now devoted to XT, this what i get from the original post, he switched to bitcoin xt, everyone will switch eventually it's only a matter of time
i don't think we have a choice, the fork will be mandatory, but i don't know what will happen to your coin if you do not switch, pehaps there is the possibility to have useless coins

[LiteCoinGuy]

I ran Bitcoin Core for >3 years, and I turned it off today

I am now running Bitcoin**Censored**

oh oh....you mean.....the "X" ? please dont say that here 

you can talk about that "alt" (lol!) somewhere else.

[RappelzReborn]

why all this fear guys , if we could import our private keys or wallet backups to the the new bitcoin client (u know the name  ) then why all this fear of losing coins and having useless coins , if majority switch then we should all switch  it's that simple

[LiteCoinGuy]

we should stop here because other threads got already banned:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1150450.msg12123098#msg12123098

 

[pedrog]

we should stop here because other threads got already banned:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1150450.msg12123098#msg12123098

 

Isn't XT Gavin's proposal?

[LiteCoinGuy]

we should stop here because other threads got already banned:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1150450.msg12123098#msg12123098

 

Isn't XT Gavin's proposal?

Gavin and Mike Hearn are the main people, yes. why?

(the forum is run by someone who does not like XT)
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/discussion-of-bitcoin-xt-banned-from-bitcoin-subreddit/

[jl2012]

we should stop here because other threads got already banned:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1150450.msg12123098#msg12123098

 

You know how Chinese people survive under the oppressive Great Firewall? They will replace those "keywords" with *** and the stupid firewall won't find it.

[newflesh]

Most people in /r/bitcoin has zero idea of the implications XT would cause

Pretty much this, any comment that isn't following the XT agenda gets downvoted to oblivion on reddit.

so bitcoin xt is censored?

Nope it just altcoins belong in Altcoin Discussion. Simple as that

[thejaytiesto]

Most people in /r/bitcoin has zero idea of the implications XT would cause

Pretty much this, any comment that isn't following the XT agenda gets downvoted to oblivion on reddit.

so bitcoin xt is censored?

Nope it just altcoins belong in Altcoin Discussion. Simple as that

So it's seems this is ending up in a Bitcoin talk (Core) vs Reddit (XT) sort of war? Kinda sad to see I think. Can't we really reach some common ground?

[Meuh6879]

bitcoin XT not introduce block increase size ... 
bitcoin XT introduce query about UXTO for specific task like crowfunding or others associates smart-contract.

when the time comes, bitcoin CORE evolve with block size increase ...

[spazzdla]

why all this fear guys , if we could import our private keys or wallet backups to the the new bitcoin client (u know the name  ) then why all this fear of losing coins and having useless coins , if majority switch then we should all switch  it's that simple

You won't lose your coins.. You'll actually double up.  You'll have coins on QT and XT.

[johnyj]

Core chain is time-tested, it's a fake conclusion, even if it was been tested as safe enough, fair enough, but the transactions proceeding speed is so slow as I can't consider it as one qualified pay method. While the community is not so large, we should import some changes to improve bitcoins, even we may get some pains in the near future.

Some payment processors like Visa and Mastercard claim that they can do several thousand transactions per second, but that is because those transactions are all done in their own server, like in an exchange. I believe those bitcoin exchanges can also do several thousand transactions per second, or even millions like Nasdaq. In fact there are already large amount of transactions done in exchanges.

Transaction on blockchain is totally a different thing, its like transaction between different banks. And we all know that banks do settlements between each other only once a day, and not during weekend and holiday. From this point of view, bitcoin's transaction speed is already the fastest on earth, it can do settlements between any different institutions in 10 minutes, 24/7. This kind of efficiency has never happened in banking history

The most important thing is: Bitcoin is first a monetary system, then a payment network. For a monetary system, the most important thing is stability. Have you ever seen FED change the version of USD every few years? When FED issue USD in QE3, they issue 85 billion per month, and they might do a couple of transactions per month, that's all. Their tps is close to 0

Decentralized does not necessary mean distributed, a fully distributed network will have exponentially increased resource consumption following user base expansion. Raise the block size means going towards a distributed model, which will increase the resource consumption by magnitudes, this need to be very careful planned

[iCEBREAKER]

I ran Bitcoin Core for >3 years, and I turned it off today

I am now running Bitcoin**Censored**

Censored?  I've been here participating in discussions about XT for months.

Your vanity post seeking social validation for standing up to Evil Core and Theymos-Hitler is so precious, I made you a meme:

[Amph]

we should stop here because other threads got already banned:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1150450.msg12123098#msg12123098

 

Isn't XT Gavin's proposal?

Gavin and Mike Hearn are the main people, yes. why?

(the forum is run by someone who does not like XT)
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/discussion-of-bitcoin-xt-banned-from-bitcoin-subreddit/

what i find silly is that their only problem with XT isn't Xt per se, but they only hate the fact that it is done in a centralized way, because proposed from one man only, they do not want to feel controlled by one guy, this is their primarely concern

because a part from this they have no reason to go against XT, really...

[RoadTrain]

we should stop here because other threads got already banned:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1150450.msg12123098#msg12123098

 

Isn't XT Gavin's proposal?

Gavin and Mike Hearn are the main people, yes. why?

(the forum is run by someone who does not like XT)
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/discussion-of-bitcoin-xt-banned-from-bitcoin-subreddit/

what i find silly is that their only problem with XT isn't Xt per se, but they only hate the fact that it is done in a centralized way, because proposed from one man only, they do not want to feel controlled by one guy, this is their primarely concern

because a part from this they have no reason to go against XT, really...

My concern is that those two people are using their authority to push controversial changes (let the economy decide, lol) while the others are using their authority to not let them do so. Technical debate is happening also, but what most people see is authority. This is politics, that's my primary concern.

[jl2012]

I ran Bitcoin Core for >3 years, and I turned it off today

I am now running Bitcoin**Censored**

Censored?  I've been here participating in discussions about XT for months.

Your vanity post seeking social validation for standing up to Evil Core and Theymos-Hitler is so precious, I made you a meme:

Try opening a post with the censored keyword in title. One has been moved to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1150450

[iCEBREAKER]

i think this is a turning point.

yes quote me on this.

The losses of nodes over the past 2 months  (from the previous ATH) have been gained back and then some in 3 days time.

Like technical analysis on markets this too is in a sense, a market.

ATH is a clear sign of things to come.

I'll be switching over today as well.

This is a turning point.  The point where XT officially became a laughingstock.   

After so much chaos and drama, you have a mighty 3% of the nodes to show for it?

Team XT lost the technical debate, and there is zero propensity for XT gaining an economic majority.

Plus, we now have this handy Domination Post from thermos:

Activating a hardfork based on what miners do is really bad. You could easily have a situation where 75% of miners support XT but none of the big Bitcoin exchanges or businesses do. Then miners would start mining coins that they couldn't spend anywhere useful, and SPV users would find that they can't transact with the businesses they want to deal with. The currency would be split, and in this case XT would be in a far weaker position than Bitcoin. The possibility of this sort of network/currency split is what makes XT not a "legitimate hardfork", but rather the programmed creation of an altcoin. A consensus hardfork can only go forward once it has been determined that it's nearly impossible for the Bitcoin economy to split in any significant way. Not every Bitcoin user on Earth has to agree, but enough that there won't be a noticeable split.

Bitcoin is not ruled by miners. In a hardfork, miners barely matter at all. (Softforks are different.) What's important is what the economy does.

Face it old buddy, XT got rekt like Stannis at Winterfell.   

Now, when can I order my 1000 XMR 1oz Platinum Lealana?  Do you want Cryptonic to eat your lunch?   

[zero01]

why did you stop after 3 years...and you running for Bitcoin*Censored* ?? 

[BitcoinEXpress]

Bitcoin XT sounds more like Crypto-Paypal than anything else.


~BCX~

[jl2012]

Bitcoin XT sounds more like Crypto-Paypal than anything else.


~BCX~

please define Crypto-Paypal

[smoothie]

i think this is a turning point.

yes quote me on this.

The losses of nodes over the past 2 months  (from the previous ATH) have been gained back and then some in 3 days time.

Like technical analysis on markets this too is in a sense, a market.

ATH is a clear sign of things to come.

I'll be switching over today as well.

This is a turning point.  The point where XT officially became a laughingstock.   

After so much chaos and drama, you have a mighty 3% of the nodes to show for it?

Team XT lost the technical debate, and there is zero propensity for XT gaining an economic majority.

Plus, we now have this handy Domination Post from thermos:

Activating a hardfork based on what miners do is really bad. You could easily have a situation where 75% of miners support XT but none of the big Bitcoin exchanges or businesses do. Then miners would start mining coins that they couldn't spend anywhere useful, and SPV users would find that they can't transact with the businesses they want to deal with. The currency would be split, and in this case XT would be in a far weaker position than Bitcoin. The possibility of this sort of network/currency split is what makes XT not a "legitimate hardfork", but rather the programmed creation of an altcoin. A consensus hardfork can only go forward once it has been determined that it's nearly impossible for the Bitcoin economy to split in any significant way. Not every Bitcoin user on Earth has to agree, but enough that there won't be a noticeable split.

Bitcoin is not ruled by miners. In a hardfork, miners barely matter at all. (Softforks are different.) What's important is what the economy does.

Face it old buddy, XT got rekt like Stannis at Winterfell.   

Now, when can I order my 1000 XMR 1oz Platinum Lealana?  Do you want Cryptonic to eat your lunch?   

"1. First they ignore you
2. then they laugh at you
3. then they fight you, then you win."

At what point are we at? 1, 2, or 3?

 

[RoadTrain]

"1. First they ignore you
2. then they laugh at you
3. then they fight you, then you win."

At what point are we at? 1, 2, or 3?

 

I think a version by ElectricMucus fits better:

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.

[smoothie]

"1. First they ignore you
2. then they laugh at you
3. then they fight you, then you win."

At what point are we at? 1, 2, or 3?

 

I think a version by ElectricMucus fits better:

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.

Not much credibility behind that quote. lol I wasn't quoting a forum user. 

[BitUsher]

We should be happy to see more nodes running core, xt, Obelisk, ect...A diversity of implementations makes for a healthy environment.

[meono]

Bitcoin XT sounds more like Crypto-Paypal than anything else.


~BCX~

Let me quote this so we can all laugh at what a dumb ass you are

[iCEBREAKER]

I'll be switching over today as well.

I can't wait to buy some of your shiny physical litecoins using XTcoins, while my BTC stay untouched.

You will be sticking your neck out and immediately accepting XTcoins, to demonstrate the power of XT's economic majority, right?

 

[meono]

I'll be switching over today as well.

I can't wait to buy some of your shiny physical litecoins using XTcoins, while my BTC stay untouched.

You will be sticking your neck out and immediately accepting XTcoins, to demonstrate the power of XT's economic majority, right?

 

No you can just ship him his HashFast unicorn that you've been shilling for years.

Piece of shit.

[iCEBREAKER]

I'll be switching over today as well.

I can't wait to buy some of your shiny physical litecoins using XTcoins, while my BTC stay untouched.

You will be sticking your neck out and immediately accepting XTcoins, to demonstrate the power of XT's economic majority, right?

 

[ Buttburn ]

XT is just another stupid altcoin, and is getting deservedly #rekt.

Sorry if that burns your butt.  Actually no, I'm glad you are upset.

Cry moar, please.   

[meono]

I'll be switching over today as well.

I can't wait to buy some of your shiny physical litecoins using XTcoins, while my BTC stay untouched.

You will be sticking your neck out and immediately accepting XTcoins, to demonstrate the power of XT's economic majority, right?

 

[ Buttburn ]

XT is just another stupid altcoin, and is getting deservedly #rekt.

Sorry if that burns your butt.  Actually no, I'm glad you are upset.

Cry moar, please.   

why would i be upset? I'm not the one dealing with guilt. Unless you're a heartless piece of shit, you cant possibly sleep well at night after that HashFast fraud.

[iCEBREAKER]

why would i be upset? I'm not the one dealing with guilt. Unless you're a heartless piece of shit, you cant possibly sleep well at night after that HashFast fraud.

You are obviously upset because XT is just another stupid altcoin, and is getting deservedly #rekt.

A company which committed fraud would not be allowed to reorganize under Chapter 11 bankruptcy.  Duh!

If you want to report imaginary crimes, tell the judge about it.  He might GAF about your whining but I don't.   

[DooMAD]

After so much chaos and drama, you have a mighty 3% of the nodes to show for it?

Even the supporters of larger blocks weren't expecting to see mass adoption of XT overnight, so I don't see why someone as vehemently opposed to them as yourself was expecting it to happen even faster.  The link for the latest release that actually supports larger blocks was only put up on the xtnodes website on the 10th.  It's been three days.  I (just about) credit you with enough intelligence to know that this is going to go on for a little longer than that before we have a clear outcome.  Troll harder.

If you're in that much of a hurry to declare the contest over, people are just going to wonder what you're so afraid of.  No one can say with any certainty whether this will go on for weeks, or even months.  All we know for certain is that it's going to be interesting.

Also, it's not an altcoin.  Again, troll harder.

[Lauda]

Even the supporters of larger blocks weren't expecting to see mass adoption of XT overnight, so I don't see why someone as vehemently opposed to them as yourself was expecting it to happen even faster.  The link for the latest release that actually supports larger blocks was only put up on the xtnodes website on the 10th.  It's been three days.  I (just about) credit you with enough intelligence -snip.
Also, it's not an altcoin.  Again, troll harder.

Well the situation is not as simple as it seems. There are a lot of people who are supporting larger blocks (including me) but who are completely against XT. Sorry but you are wrong this time, it is an altcoin. Just because it was started by Mike and Gavin does not give XT some special treatment.

The possibility of this sort of network/currency split is what makes XT not a "legitimate hardfork", but rather the programmed creation of an altcoin. A consensus hardfork can only go forward once it has been determined that it's nearly impossible for the Bitcoin economy to split in any significant way. N

However this probably isn't going to happen as Mike, seemingly likes the idea of dictatorship (as said on a podcast), is going to push the fork without proper consensus (his words). Unless the proper consensus rules of the past are kept, it will never be nothing more than an altcoin.

[Denker]

It's a pitty what had happen to this community.
Right now what we're doing is self defeating. I support bigger blocks as well. How we achieve that I don't know. My wish would be we could continue to use Bitcon core for that. But that seems to be very unlikely.
I just know that I am completely agains the 1MB cap and this whole Blockstream shit.

And while we continue to throw mud each other these guys are laughing.

[kelsey]

It's a pitty what had happen to this community.
Right now what we're doing is self defeating. I support bigger blocks as well. How we achieve that I don't know. My wish would be we could continue to use Bitcon core for that. But that seems to be very unlikely.
I just know that I am completely agains the 1MB cap and this whole Blockstream shit.

And while we continue to throw mud each other these guys are laughing.

i think people here (especially Mike and Gavin) underestimate how much of a war this will become, and the end the war won't be about block size 

[meono]

It's a pitty what had happen to this community.
Right now what we're doing is self defeating. I support bigger blocks as well. How we achieve that I don't know. My wish would be we could continue to use Bitcon core for that. But that seems to be very unlikely.
I just know that I am completely agains the 1MB cap and this whole Blockstream shit.

And while we continue to throw mud each other these guys are laughing.

Exactly how i feel. Bitcoin Core think they can decide what we want.

Well if we have a choice (XT) they will censor us?

I'm in support of bigger block. Like it or not its inevitable.

[Amph]

I'll be switching over today as well.

I can't wait to buy some of your shiny physical litecoins using XTcoins, while my BTC stay untouched.

You will be sticking your neck out and immediately accepting XTcoins, to demonstrate the power of XT's economic majority, right?

 

[ Buttburn ]

XT is just another stupid altcoin, and is getting deservedly #rekt.

Sorry if that burns your butt.  Actually no, I'm glad you are upset.

Cry moar, please.   

if it was called bitcoin 0.12 instead of XT would you have been against it? isn't the only relevant difference the block increase? which could be implemented directly in bitcoin core and preventing all these fuss about core vs xt?

[DooMAD]

Even the supporters of larger blocks weren't expecting to see mass adoption of XT overnight, so I don't see why someone as vehemently opposed to them as yourself was expecting it to happen even faster.  The link for the latest release that actually supports larger blocks was only put up on the xtnodes website on the 10th.  It's been three days.  I (just about) credit you with enough intelligence -snip.
Also, it's not an altcoin.  Again, troll harder.

Well the situation is not as simple as it seems. There are a lot of people who are supporting larger blocks (including me) but who are completely against XT. Sorry but you are wrong this time, it is an altcoin. Just because it was started by Mike and Gavin does not give XT some special treatment.

It has nothing to do with "special treatment".  If a fork occurred without consensus, only then does it become an altcoin.  If it either achieves consensus or the fork doesn't happen, it's still Bitcoin.  The fork hasn't happened yet, so it is still Bitcoin.  XT sends and receives bitcoin transactions using the Bitcoin blockchain.  It is an alternative client, not an alternative coin.  Stop spreading misinformation.

[redsn0w]

At the moment bitcoinXT is not an altcoin, it uses the same network and coin of bitcoin core, electrum, multibit, greenAddress, etc...  it is only another bitcoin client (that support bigger sized blocks).

[Lauda]

It has nothing to do with "special treatment".  If a fork occurred without consensus, only then does it become an altcoin.  If it either achieves consensus or the fork doesn't happen, it's still Bitcoin.  The fork hasn't happened yet, so it is still Bitcoin.  XT sends and receives bitcoin transactions using the Bitcoin blockchain.  It is an alternative client, not an alternative coin.  Stop spreading misinformation.

It is not misinformation because those are Hearns intention. He stated that in the worst case scenario checkpoints will be implemented to ignore the longest chain. In other words, consensus is not necessary for the fork to happen according to him. I'd rather people be aware of his intentions on time.
That alternative client needs to die.

[meono]

Even the supporters of larger blocks weren't expecting to see mass adoption of XT overnight, so I don't see why someone as vehemently opposed to them as yourself was expecting it to happen even faster.  The link for the latest release that actually supports larger blocks was only put up on the xtnodes website on the 10th.  It's been three days.  I (just about) credit you with enough intelligence -snip.
Also, it's not an altcoin.  Again, troll harder.

Well the situation is not as simple as it seems. There are a lot of people who are supporting larger blocks (including me) but who are completely against XT. Sorry but you are wrong this time, it is an altcoin. Just because it was started by Mike and Gavin does not give XT some special treatment.

It has nothing to do with "special treatment".  If a fork occurred without consensus, only then does it become an altcoin.  If it either achieves consensus or the fork doesn't happen, it's still Bitcoin.  The fork hasn't happened yet, so it is still Bitcoin.  XT sends and receives bitcoin transactions using the Bitcoin blockchain.  It is an alternative client, not an alternative coin.  Stop spreading misinformation.

These idiots are losing argument so they bring in politics....


Wow...

[meono]

It has nothing to do with "special treatment".  If a fork occurred without consensus, only then does it become an altcoin.  If it either achieves consensus or the fork doesn't happen, it's still Bitcoin.  The fork hasn't happened yet, so it is still Bitcoin.  XT sends and receives bitcoin transactions using the Bitcoin blockchain.  It is an alternative client, not an alternative coin.  Stop spreading misinformation.

It is not misinformation because those are Hearns intention. He stated that in the worst case scenario checkpoints will be implemented to ignore the longest chain. In other words, consensus is not necessary for the fork to happen according to him. I'd rather people be aware of his intentions on time.
That alternative client needs to die.

Dont twist words around to fit your agenda.

The key part Mike said that you intentionally left out from that video:

If the needs of the wider global bitcoin community start diverging from what miners in China want, the who wins .... the answer is the economic majority wins

The fundamental of bitcoin blockchain has always been economic incentive. Miners dont make rules they're rewarded for following rules. The moment they're stupid enough to disagree as in the worst case Mike mentioned, the network will have to ignore them and treat them as an attack ( ignoring the longest chain is a defense against attack)

[LiteCoinGuy]

I'll be switching over today as well.

I can't wait to buy some of your shiny physical litecoins using XTcoins, while my BTC stay untouched.

You will be sticking your neck out and immediately accepting XTcoins, to demonstrate the power of XT's economic majority, right?

 

[ Buttburn ]

XT is just another stupid altcoin, and is getting deservedly #rekt.

Sorry if that burns your butt.  Actually no, I'm glad you are upset.

Cry moar, please.  

if it was called bitcoin 0.12 instead of XT would you have been against it? isn't the only relevant difference the block increase? which could be implemented directly in bitcoin core and preventing all these fuss about core vs xt?

"but...but....it is.....the name - it is different! i dont like it! and even they must be able to run a node!":

[RoadTrain]

"but...but....it is.....the name - it is different! i dont like it! and even they must be able to run a node!":

Do you ever take anything seriously? Because it's not your Litecoin, it's 15 times larger -- some $3.9 billion market cap is at stake. Joking doesn't make your argument more valid.

[Mickeyb]

At the moment bitcoinXT is not an altcoin, it uses the same network and coin of bitcoin core, electrum, multibit, greenAddress, etc...  it is only another bitcoin client (that support bigger sized blocks).

This is how I see that things as well. All is the same with 2 clients, just 1 supports bigger and 2nd supports larger blocks. Which one will be in a majority in the end, well the time and the community will show. If XT will have more nodes than core in the future, than I guess we will be calling XT chain a Bitcoin. If not, then everything will stay the same as it is now. Lets see, in this way or another, consensus must and will be reached!

[tspacepilot]

As far as I can tell, the idea that XT is an altcoin is clearly FUD intended to discredit those who would otherwise be interested in running it.  There's really no logical reason to call it an altcoin.  As has been stressed by people running full nodes in other threads, individual nodes are free to implement their own rules and connect to the network.

I say this as someone who does not see the need to increase the block-size limit at this moment.  Perhaps it should be increased eventually, perhaps it should be increased and decreased dynamically based on usage (as we do with difficulty) but I don't think the situation is desperate enought that everyone needs to switch to XT now.

Calling XT an altcoin is clearly hyperbole.  It's no more an altcoin than it is if I download core and make a change to the code and compile and connect, it's an alternative bitcoin client, but that doesn't mean it's an alternative coin.

[iCEBREAKER]

After so much chaos and drama, you have a mighty 3% of the nodes to show for it?

Even the supporters of larger blocks weren't expecting to see mass adoption of XT overnight, so I don't see why someone as vehemently opposed to them as yourself was expecting it to happen even faster.  The link for the latest release that actually supports larger blocks was only put up on the xtnodes website on the 10th.  It's been three days.  I (just about) credit you with enough intelligence to know that this is going to go on for a little longer than that before we have a clear outcome.  Troll harder.

If you're in that much of a hurry to declare the contest over, people are just going to wonder what you're so afraid of.  No one can say with any certainty whether this will go on for weeks, or even months.  All we know for certain is that it's going to be interesting.

Also, it's not an altcoin.  Again, troll harder.

Most supporters of larger blocks don't support XT, because it entails a Hearn dictatorship complete with checkpoints and Tor crackdowns.

XT is most certainly an altcoin, no matter how hard you wish or how long you bloviate:

Activating a hardfork based on what miners do is really bad. You could easily have a situation where 75% of miners support XT but none of the big Bitcoin exchanges or businesses do. Then miners would start mining coins that they couldn't spend anywhere useful, and SPV users would find that they can't transact with the businesses they want to deal with. The currency would be split, and in this case XT would be in a far weaker position than Bitcoin. The possibility of this sort of network/currency split is what makes XT not a "legitimate hardfork", but rather the programmed creation of an altcoin. A consensus hardfork can only go forward once it has been determined that it's nearly impossible for the Bitcoin economy to split in any significant way. Not every Bitcoin user on Earth has to agree, but enough that there won't be a noticeable split.

Bitcoin is not ruled by miners. In a hardfork, miners barely matter at all. (Softforks are different.) What's important is what the economy does.

[chek2fire]

i run almost three years now several bitcoin nodes and i think i will add one more 

[iCEBREAKER]

"but...but....it is.....the name - it is different! i dont like it! and even they must be able to run a node!":

Do you ever take anything seriously? Because it's not your Litecoin, it's 15 times larger -- some $3.9 billion market cap is at stake. Joking doesn't make your argument more valid.

Sorry RoadTrain, LCG is actually right on this one.  I did say anyone with a $300 laptop and 1Mb upstream should be able to access, verify, and amplify the Blockchain.

It is to all users benefit and adversaries' detriment full (ie non-leech, contributing) Bitcoin nodes be maintained in far flung places like Côte d'Ivoire.

The people who grow my chocolate have a special place in my heart.  Whether completely unbanked or merely underserved by financial services, residents of the Dix-Huit Montagnes region participate in System D to an extent unimaginable to most drive-though-ATM using westerners.

Given that Bitcoin (and Monero) are the natural currencies of System D, the depicted villagers have more to gain from Bitcoin's 'be your own bank' functions than just about everyone (besides edge cases) in the first world.

As petro-fiat collapse proceeds, there will come a point when Bitcoin is a convenient distraction and scapegoat for politicians to blame.  When it's Bitcoin's turn to be declared the latest threat to NATO security, we'll need every single node outside of The Empire we can possibly get.

It's not out of altruism we preserve full (ie non-leech, contributing) participation for the proverbial African village.  It literally takes those villages to keep Bitcoin diverse, diffuse, defensible, and resilient.

The village in question exists in a war-torn area where a great deal of the population has been displaced, and many immigrants arrive to work in agriculture.  It's not hard to make a long list of things they could do with a full node.

-receive remittances from emigrants (Bob got a job in America, mowing the grass around drive-through ATMs)
-send support to refugees (Sally made it to France, she needs 1000 Euro to start a crepe stand)
-buy agricultural supplies (fertilizers and pesticides are expensive, but Joe's Chemicals gives a discount if you pay in BTC)
-sell goods (some foodie in Denmark will pay Alice 10 times wholesale for her organic heritage criollo cacao and trendy pickled cassava)

The fun-loving folks (festooned in colorful traditional ceremonial garb) in LCG's picture look like they could collectively come up with $300 for a laptop and find an internet cafe.  They certainly don't deserve to be excluded by high barriers to entry from full (ie non-leech, contributing) participation in the network.  They definitely don't deserve damnation to an existence of SPV and trusting third parties like Paypal, M-Pesa, or (God forbid) Hearn's Circle.


EDIT:

from Why Bitcoin Could Be More Important Than the Internet for 5 Billion People

In order to make his point on the importance of Bitcoin for at least five billion people around the world, Casares first discussed the problems associated with using cash on a daily basis. While many people in the developed world take credit cards and debit cards for granted, there are billions of people around the world who are forced out of the digital economy and stuck moving physical cash whenever they need to make a transaction:

“If you are one of the five billion people who live on cash — there’s a little over a billion people who have credit cards and debit cards, most of the world does not have that. So, they’ve seen this revolution go by them. They cannot benefit in any way, and they have to rely on cash. Cash is expensive to keep at home, it’s expensive to transport, it’s risky, all payments [require] that you move there physically — usually by public transportation that is slow, increasing the risk of it being stolen. It’s ridiculous, but it’s very expensive to be poor. And it’s very expensive to live on cash.”

[LiteCoinGuy]

As far as I can tell, the idea that XT is an altcoin is clearly FUD intended to discredit those who would otherwise be interested in running it.  There's really no logical reason to call it an altcoin.  As has been stressed by people running full nodes in other threads, individual nodes are free to implement their own rules and connect to the network.

I say this as someone who does not see the need to increase the block-size limit at this moment.  Perhaps it should be increased eventually, perhaps it should be increased and decreased dynamically based on usage (as we do with difficulty) but I don't think the situation is desperate enought that everyone needs to switch to XT now.

Calling XT an altcoin is clearly hyperbole.  It's no more an altcoin than it is if I download core and make a change to the code and compile and connect, it's an alternative bitcoin client, but that doesn't mean it's an alternative coin.

of course it is FUD to call XT an altcoin. qt would be an alt too in that case.

we dont need a blocksize increase today BUT we will need it very bad in 6-12 month and we have to be ready then!
things can move really fast and when we see an influx of 5-10 mio. new people (+ a dramatic price increase) you will be glad to have XT in place.

you cant discuss this problem when you are in a critical growth phase. you have to be prepared.

[timothythomas]

i would like if you can post some more on about why you turned it off and why started the new one ? what changed your mind ? etc..

[iCEBREAKER]

i think this is a turning point.

yes quote me on this.

The losses of nodes over the past 2 months  (from the previous ATH) have been gained back and then some in 3 days time.

Like technical analysis on markets this too is in a sense, a market.

ATH is a clear sign of things to come.

I'll be switching over today as well.

This is a turning point.  The point where XT officially became a laughingstock.   

After so much chaos and drama, you have a mighty 3% of the nodes to show for it?

Team XT lost the technical debate, and there is zero propensity for XT gaining an economic majority.

Plus, we now have this handy Domination Post from thermos:

Activating a hardfork based on what miners do is really bad. You could easily have a situation where 75% of miners support XT but none of the big Bitcoin exchanges or businesses do. Then miners would start mining coins that they couldn't spend anywhere useful, and SPV users would find that they can't transact with the businesses they want to deal with. The currency would be split, and in this case XT would be in a far weaker position than Bitcoin. The possibility of this sort of network/currency split is what makes XT not a "legitimate hardfork", but rather the programmed creation of an altcoin. A consensus hardfork can only go forward once it has been determined that it's nearly impossible for the Bitcoin economy to split in any significant way. Not every Bitcoin user on Earth has to agree, but enough that there won't be a noticeable split.

Bitcoin is not ruled by miners. In a hardfork, miners barely matter at all. (Softforks are different.) What's important is what the economy does.

Face it old buddy, XT got rekt like Stannis at Winterfell.   

Now, when can I order my 1000 XMR 1oz Platinum Lealana?  Do you want Cryptonic to eat your lunch?   

"1. First they ignore you
2. then they laugh at you
3. then they fight you, then you win."

At what point are we at? 1, 2, or 3?

XT is still at the stage where people who know better laugh at it.

For a brief moment, we fought XT with NotXT.  Then it lost and went back to Step 2, where it will remain forever.   

[Jet Cash]

You need to upgrade your network connection if it hasn't sync'd after 3 years.

[alani123]

As far as I can tell, the idea that XT is an altcoin is clearly FUD intended to discredit those who would otherwise be interested in running it.  There's really no logical reason to call it an altcoin.  As has been stressed by people running full nodes in other threads, individual nodes are free to implement their own rules and connect to the network.

I say this as someone who does not see the need to increase the block-size limit at this moment.  Perhaps it should be increased eventually, perhaps it should be increased and decreased dynamically based on usage (as we do with difficulty) but I don't think the situation is desperate enought that everyone needs to switch to XT now.

Calling XT an altcoin is clearly hyperbole.  It's no more an altcoin than it is if I download core and make a change to the code and compile and connect, it's an alternative bitcoin client, but that doesn't mean it's an alternative coin.

of course it is FUD to call XT an altcoin. qt would be an alt too in that case.

we dont need a blocksize increase today BUT we will need it very bad in 6-12 month and we have to be ready then!
things can move really fast and when we see an influx of 5-10 mio. new people (+ a dramatic price increase) you will be glad to have XT in place.

you cant discuss this problem when you are in a critical growth phase. you have to be prepared.

Again this is based on assumption that bitcoin user base will experience growth monumental growth. We've heard such prophecies many times till now but back in 2013 I didn't expect to see this an argument in a propaganda campaign.

Furthermore the reason Gavin Andresen stopped having his ideas implemented in Core was because there wasn't consensus about them. There were hundreds of perfectly good reasons to not support bitcoin XT, people that no longer trust Gavin are still called FUDsters and dictators. Prior to this schism, the only update channel was bitcoin Core and as long as the majority of the users behind this channel don't approve of new changes implemented to bitcoin, implementations with them included are not bitcoin. The mental gymnastics to avoid this are kinda funny.

[Lauda]

of course it is FUD to call XT an altcoin. qt would be an alt too in that case.

we dont need a blocksize increase today BUT we will need it very bad in 6-12 month and we have to be ready then!
things can move really fast and when we see an influx of 5-10 mio. new people (+ a dramatic price increase) you will be glad to have XT in place.

Blockstream is trying to solve it while you're falling for the nonsense proposed by Bitcoin Classic. Let's look at how badly Bitcoin scales via the block size limit.
Let's say that 700 million people use Bitcoin (that's ~10% of the World population, even less), and that they all make only 1 transaction per day. Transaction size is averaging half a kilobyte today (source Bitcoin Wiki).
700 million transactions * 0.5 = 350 million Kilobyte = ~350 GB/ 144 (blocks per day) = ~2.4 Gigabyte per block. This is only if they make a single transaction per day (which is unlikely, as the average would be much higher with adoption on this scale).

Good luck trying to scale Bitcoin for mass adoption via the block size.

[iCEBREAKER]

I ran Bitcoin Core for >3 years, and I turned it off today

I am now running Bitcoin**Censored**

I also turned bitcoin core off because blockchain size was very big.
But, which client running on your device now? Core, XT, classic, unlimited, or perhaps QT

So many choice to solve block size & i don't know which one is the best, but blockstream isn't option.

jl2012 was a censorship martyr before it was cool.  You are just copying his style.   

If you want a truly manageable blockchain size, check out Cryptonite (XCN).  It uses a mini-blockchain, for ultimate pruning power!   

[klm bitcoin]

I'm not a technician so this discussion is kind of hard to follow for me. For an average user like me, what impact does those coin wars have? I'm not running any of those clients, I use Mycellium for storing my coins. Am I doing something wrong?

thanks

[7788bitcoin]

I'm not a technician so this discussion is kind of hard to follow for me. For an average user like me, what impact does those coin wars have? I'm not running any of those clients, I use Mycellium for storing my coins. Am I doing something wrong?

thanks

To be on the safe side, I will most like store most of my coins in cold wallet, such as a securely generated paper wallet. During the "wars" just don't move your coins, because during the "wars" you will not know if your transaction is included in the final winner's chain.

[chek2fire]

I ran Bitcoin Core for >3 years, and I turned it off today

I am now running Bitcoin**Censored**

Is still off or you tun it on again?

[bargainbin]

of course it is FUD to call XT an altcoin. qt would be an alt too in that case.

we dont need a blocksize increase today BUT we will need it very bad in 6-12 month and we have to be ready then!
things can move really fast and when we see an influx of 5-10 mio. new people (+ a dramatic price increase) you will be glad to have XT in place.

Blockstream is trying to solve it while you're falling for the nonsense proposed by Bitcoin Classic. Let's look at how badly Bitcoin scales via the block size limit.
Let's say that 700 million people use Bitcoin (that's ~10% of the World population, even less), and that they all make only 1 transaction per day. Transaction size is averaging half a kilobyte today (source Bitcoin Wiki).
700 million transactions * 0.5 = 350 million Kilobyte = ~350 GB/ 144 (blocks per day) = ~2.4 Gigabyte per block. This is only if they make a single transaction per day (which is unlikely, as the average would be much higher with adoption on this scale).

Good luck trying to scale Bitcoin for mass adoption via the block size.

Thanks for fixing our your Bitcoin, Blockstream!
(and thanks for not mincing words, Lauda )

[gotchay]

I am sitting here idling until Bitcoin Classic is released...