the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency

[meono]

My argument is simple, they say BitcoinXT is an altcoin because they assume there will be 2 bitcoin blockchains, well thats not gonna happen. They can argue that well forking will always defranchise a percentage of bitcoiners.... well so did every folk before this , soft fork or hard fork

I'm not going to argue with you because you are just a troll looking for a reaction and I actually knew you would post in this thread when I replied to you in that other thread. I'll just add you to my ignore list instead

Did you also ignore the fact that i pointed out your stupidity in your "analogy". It tells how much you understand the topic we're discussing.

Oh right, its simpler to call me a troll then. Gotta be hard to admit our stupidity sometimes, i understand.

[becoin]

I agree, but I feel strongly about censorship and I think having a fair moderation policy is very important. We don't censor obvious scams around here.

Bitcoin XT is an altcoin project. This is why it is allowed to post only on the altcoin section. It is completely in line with the moderation policy so far. Why would want to be an exception?

[shorena]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1148654.0

[Blazr]

Bitcoin XT is an altcoin project. This is why it is allowed to post only on the altcoin section. It is completely in line with the moderation policy so far. Why would want to be an exception?

Because bitcoin XT is not an altcoin project. It was released a long time ago - before the blocksize debate - by Mike Hearn in order to release some extra features he had trouble getting added to Bitcoin Core.

It was and still is used by many people for purposes other than changing the blocksize. It wasn't until later when the blocksize limit debate came around that Mike Hearn got the idea of using this client to change the blocksize limit.

It most definitely is a Bitcoin client right now, it's not fair to censor it. Maybe if we didn't censor it then people would understand the difference between bitcoin core and bitcoin XT better. I honestly think much less people would be running it if they had access to more information. Most of the people I talked to who are running it are doing so because they have been misinformed about things. Note that I'm tlaking about the client (software) here and not the currency itself. I would think that topics mainly about the currency go in altcoin, but a post by someone saying they switched their Bitcoin server from Bitcoin Core to XT should be allowed, at least until XT changes to another currency, if it ever does.

[becoin]

Because bitcoin XT is not an altcoin project. It was released a long time ago - before the blocksize debate - by Mike Hearn in order to release some extra features he had trouble getting added to Bitcoin Core.

I know Mike. Poor devil. His ego is bigger than the universe.

So, if it is released by Mike it can't be an altcoin project and should be allowed to post everywhere on bitcointalk because nobody is willing to post on bitcoinxttalk. Any other arguments?

[Blazr]

So, if it is released by Mike it can't be an altcoin project

Are you serious? thats not what I said at all.  Read my other posts, I'm basically just repeating myself here. In fact I personally think that Mike Hearn is untrustworthy because I think he has an agenda, I strongly disagree with his opnion on a number of topics and it doesn't help that he has a colorful past. I don't think he is involved in Bitcoin for altruistic reasons.

I think that all clients that accept the Bitcoin currency should be allowed to be discussed on bitcointalk and that the staff should not arbitrarily decide which clients are allowed as that can cause censorship.

It should not matter if that client supports other currencies too, as some "multicoin" clients too and also some web wallets like coinbase that allow you to accept Bitcoin and US dollars.

I also think that it should not matter if the client plans to drop support for Bitcoin at a later date, when the time comes we can move threads to the altcoin section then.

I also think that topics that talk about clients that only accept other currencies are clearly offtopic and belong in altcoin/trash as appropriate.

[becoin]

It should not matter if that client supports other currencies too, as some "multicoin" clients too and also some web wallets like coinbase that allow you to accept Bitcoin and US dollars.

Of course, it does matter. Bitcoin XT client will NOT allow you to accept both Bitcoin and Bitcoin XT currencies if they both exist.

[Blazr]

Of course, it does matter. Bitcoin XT client will NOT allow you to accept both Bitcoin and Bitcoin XT currencies if they both exist.

You are misunderstanding me. That statement was not talking about XT at all. I of course know it will only use one or the other depending on how things go. I've made all my points I guess. I'm hoping theymos might see this thread and reply, I'd love to hear his answer.

[Quickseller]

It should not matter if that client supports other currencies too, as some "multicoin" clients too and also some web wallets like coinbase that allow you to accept Bitcoin and US dollars.

Of course, it does matter. Bitcoin XT client will NOT allow you to accept both Bitcoin and Bitcoin XT currencies if they both exist.

In the (unlikely) event that XT ever does replace Bitcoin, then all major clients will not allow you to accept Bitcoin if both Bitcoin and XT exist.

[becoin]

In the (unlikely) event that XT ever does replace Bitcoin, then all major clients will not allow you to accept Bitcoin if both Bitcoin and XT exist.

In case you're the hidden owner of all major clients and you can speak on their behalf, let me tell you. The only major client that matters is Bitcoin Core. Get over it and forget about the Bitcoin XT altcoin.

[Quickseller]

In the (unlikely) event that XT ever does replace Bitcoin, then all major clients will not allow you to accept Bitcoin if both Bitcoin and XT exist.

In case you're the hidden owner of all major clients and you can speak on their behalf, let me tell you. The only major client that matters is Bitcoin Core. Get over it and forget about the Bitcoin XT altcoin.

Do you care to explain why the devs of clients would continue to have their clients remain compatible with a coin that (hypothetically) is not used?

I think whichever is superior will ultimately be adopted (assuming that XT coin ever comes into existence) and right now I believe that Bitcoin is superior, although it's max block size does need to increase. That doesn't mean that I won't change my mind in the future if something changes or if someone can make a strong enough argument.

I am not running XT right now and have no intention of doing so, although if a situation were to arrise that forced me to use it then I would be able to use it with my Bitcoin

[becoin]

Do you care to explain why the devs of clients would continue to have their clients remain compatible with a coin that (hypothetically) is not used?

Bitcoin XT altcoin will not be widely adopted and I also don't see why would devs of clients change their clients to be compatible with a new coin that (hypothetically) is not used!

I think whichever is superior will ultimately be adopted (assuming that XT coin ever comes into existence) and right now I believe that Bitcoin is superior

The Bitcoin XT altcoin will come and die as many other altcoins because Mike and Gavin don't understand the difference between monetary system and payment system. They offer simplistic technical solution to pure economic problem. What they're trying to do has the potential of harming Bitcoin in a major way.

[meono]

Right ... Mike is a devil

Blame him but not the economic majority that supports bitcoinXT....

As if Mike put a gun to their head and force them run bitcoin XT

Meanwhile, lets assume Mike is evil and censore all the bitcoin XT discussion. Call bitcoinXT supporters are only supporting altcoins and not bitcoin....

Stupid as stupid does...

[tss]

you can't bait and switch me with xt.  try and trick me to use a client because you are currently using my blockchain then switch to your own blockchain and expect to keep me using the client.  anything that is scheduled to become an altcoin in the future is already an altcoin.  xt is not bitcoin.

[smoothie]

you can't bait and switch me with xt.  try and trick me to use a client because you are currently using my blockchain then switch to your own blockchain and expect to keep me using the client.  anything that is scheduled to become an altcoin in the future is already an altcoin.  xt is not bitcoin.

using your logic then that means

the current bitcoin (core) is an altcoin as it is vastly different than the original bitcoin satoshi released in 2009.

 

Logic fail. LOL!

Therefore Bitcoin core is not Bitcoin right? 

[redsn0w]

you can't bait and switch me with xt.  try and trick me to use a client because you are currently using my blockchain then switch to your own blockchain and expect to keep me using the client.  anything that is scheduled to become an altcoin in the future is already an altcoin.  xt is not bitcoin.

using your logic then that means

the current bitcoin (core) is an altcoin as it is vastly different than the original bitcoin satoshi released in 2009.

 

Logic fail. LOL!

Therefore Bitcoin core is not Bitcoin right? 

logical fallacy for him,  BitcoinXT is only another client with some more thing that Bitcoin Core doesn't have. Actually it uses the same network, and above all the same coin.

[iCEBREAKER]

you can't bait and switch me with xt.  try and trick me to use a client because you are currently using my blockchain then switch to your own blockchain and expect to keep me using the client.  anything that is scheduled to become an altcoin in the future is already an altcoin.  xt is not bitcoin.

using your logic then that means

the current bitcoin (core) is an altcoin as it is vastly different than the original bitcoin satoshi released in 2009.

 

Logic fail. LOL!

Therefore Bitcoin core is not Bitcoin right? 

Nope, logic win:

Activating a hardfork based on what miners do is really bad. You could easily have a situation where 75% of miners support XT but none of the big Bitcoin exchanges or businesses do. Then miners would start mining coins that they couldn't spend anywhere useful, and SPV users would find that they can't transact with the businesses they want to deal with. The currency would be split, and in this case XT would be in a far weaker position than Bitcoin.

The possibility of this sort of network/currency split is what makes XT not a "legitimate hardfork", but rather the programmed creation of an altcoin. A consensus hardfork can only go forward once it has been determined that it's nearly impossible for the Bitcoin economy to split in any significant way. Not every Bitcoin user on Earth has to agree, but enough that there won't be a noticeable split.

Bitcoin is not ruled by miners. In a hardfork, miners barely matter at all. (Softforks are different.) What's important is what the economy does.

LOL!

What Heam doesn't want you to know about XT:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3h5heu/so_what_exactly_are_the_changes_in_bitcoinxt/

In Core, several committers and usually a few other people eyeball the changes; does XT have that attention yet? I don't know enough on the patched functionality to give a useful opinion, but I strongly believe people should look closely at what's getting in under the radar here.

    a bug fix

If "relay the first observed double spend" were generally accepted as a bug with a clean fix available, it'd be fixed in Core; superficial searching says it got reverted as problematic and contentious but I don't know the whole story, nor do I have an opinion on the change.

    two minor things

One is for Hearn's Lighthouse project, and also got merged, found buggy, and reverted. Without those eyeballs, would the lack of testing have been addressed and the bug in getutxos have been spotted before it was widely rolled out?

The other is adding back the bitnodes seed node that was removed for behaving in fishy ways, and adding a seed run by Mike that (unlike any others) gets to know the connecting node's IP address (which would never be accepted into Core).

Is XT basically going to be every patch Mike Hearn ever had refused by NACKs in Core? Where does that road take you as a user of XT?

Edit: Conspicuous by its absence from the README is that (AFAICT from the commit comment) incoming clearnet connections will kick a Tor peer off. /u/luke-jr pointed this out below. So don't just trust the description of diffs.

Good luck with your NACKcoin, full of buggy/shitty ideas Heam couldn't get through the rigorous BIP process!

LOL!

[dogie]

The fact that it may will switch to another coin in the future does not matter IMO.

It does matter now, right?

You are wrong, bitcoin-xt MAY switch to another currency.

Bitcoin-XT will NOT switch to another currency if it does not hit its target of 75% of miners. Bitcoin-XT has been around for years, it is a Bitcoin client just like any others, it has some extra features not in Bitcoin Core and many people ran it for specific purposes. If it doesn't hit 75% then it will wont switch to another currency and continue to be used by many as a normal Bitcoin client.

May, will, might, those are all keywords. The important bit is that they want to else it wouldn't exist in the first place.

[Blazed]

This is Theymos's forum so he makes the rules (same as on /r/Bitcoin). People always seem to think the forum is some how democratic, but it is not. I disagree on moving XT into the alt section, but it does not matter...not our call. I think the way everyone is split is toxic to Bitcoin and only hurts it. Hiding the debate into the "shit coin" section here does not help either.

[BrianM]

This is because the staff consider the bitcoin-XT currency to be an altcoin

They are correct. Bitcoin XT is not altcoin yet, but will be when hardfork of bitcoin will inevitably occur as a result of larger block size accepted in future!

Exactly. So why censor it now? Right now I can download the Bitcoin-Xt client, import my wallet from Bitcoin Core and spend my coins at merchants that use Bitcoin Core. So obviously isn't an altcoin client right now, its a usable Bitcoin client just like any other. Doesn't make sense to censor it now becuase it will become an altcoin client in the future.

Just to note by they way that my opinion is that I am for larger blocks (or a abolition of a blocksize limit altogether). However I am totally against Bitcoin-XT and they way certain developers are trying to change the blocksize. People are being mislead into believing Bitcoin-XT is different from any other altcoin such as litecoin, it really isn't different. I also think that they should remove the "bitcoin" part from the name as this is a huge part of the confusion. Mark Karpeles used to own the trademark for the term "Bitcoin" in the US I believe, maybe he should have his lawyers look into the misuse of this trademark.

Nobody prevents you for making your own forum and call it bitcoinXTtalk.org.

Then can you freely discuss bitcoin XT and move all the threads about bitcoin into the altcoin section.

Untill then, please keep the talk about bitcoin XT outside the bitcointalk.org forum.
Thanks.