If you want to know why I hate the dev team and how they treat Bitcoin...

[mobodick]

If I just wanted "Bitcoins" to play around with like a kid and monopoly money, I would of created an alternate chain right now. That does not answer my concerns, at all -- AT ALL. The only thing worth defending is what we have now.

I am invested in a large sum of Bitcoins. I am guessing you guys have none. This is just a game for you, isn't it?

But if your concerns were valid a differnt coin with properties you seek should take off and become better than bitcoin. So it would be stupid not to do it if you realy think it's that important.
You would just transfer your bitcoins to the new coin and according to you it should outperform bitcoin (as bitcoin usability and thus growth is hampered by current development).
If what you ask for is really important then you have no way to lose.

No, success isn't guaranteed. The liquidity and support we have for Bitcoin is not a widely available commodity.

I don't even seek different properties. I like what we have now but I am afraid of future change proposed by a trusted and central developer. I am just speaking against possible dangers. That does not require me to run off and reinvent the wheel.

Like it or leave it doesn't apply in this case. It's actually like it and protect it.

This liquidity you talk of has been built up in just 2 years. That's peanuts.
And the things you speak of here are not what your OP was about.
You said you hate the devs and called them autists because they don't implement the features you want.
You were pretty specific.

[mobodick]

Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.

Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...

Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.

Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.

[Atlas]

If I just wanted "Bitcoins" to play around with like a kid and monopoly money, I would of created an alternate chain right now. That does not answer my concerns, at all -- AT ALL. The only thing worth defending is what we have now.

I am invested in a large sum of Bitcoins. I am guessing you guys have none. This is just a game for you, isn't it?

But if your concerns were valid a differnt coin with properties you seek should take off and become better than bitcoin. So it would be stupid not to do it if you realy think it's that important.
You would just transfer your bitcoins to the new coin and according to you it should outperform bitcoin (as bitcoin usability and thus growth is hampered by current development).
If what you ask for is really important then you have no way to lose.

No, success isn't guaranteed. The liquidity and support we have for Bitcoin is not a widely available commodity.

I don't even seek different properties. I like what we have now but I am afraid of future change proposed by a trusted and central developer. I am just speaking against possible dangers. That does not require me to run off and reinvent the wheel.

Like it or leave it doesn't apply in this case. It's actually like it and protect it.

This liquidity you talk of has been built up in just 2 years. That's peanuts.
And the things you speak of here are no what you OP was about.
You say you hate the devs and called them autists because they don't implement the features you want.
You were pretty specific.

No, I don't want the devs to implement any of my ideal features. I intended to claim the features should implement themselves. I only railed against their ideal solutions. I don't want a damn thing from them. I only want them not to do certain things.

[Atlas]

Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.

Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...

Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.

Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.

I'll say it one last time: Making my own coin doesn't do anything towards the ends a lot of us espouse. We value our Bitcoins as they are and we intend to protect them.

[mobodick]

If I just wanted "Bitcoins" to play around with like a kid and monopoly money, I would of created an alternate chain right now. That does not answer my concerns, at all -- AT ALL. The only thing worth defending is what we have now.

I am invested in a large sum of Bitcoins. I am guessing you guys have none. This is just a game for you, isn't it?

But if your concerns were valid a differnt coin with properties you seek should take off and become better than bitcoin. So it would be stupid not to do it if you realy think it's that important.
You would just transfer your bitcoins to the new coin and according to you it should outperform bitcoin (as bitcoin usability and thus growth is hampered by current development).
If what you ask for is really important then you have no way to lose.

No, success isn't guaranteed. The liquidity and support we have for Bitcoin is not a widely available commodity.

I don't even seek different properties. I like what we have now but I am afraid of future change proposed by a trusted and central developer. I am just speaking against possible dangers. That does not require me to run off and reinvent the wheel.

Like it or leave it doesn't apply in this case. It's actually like it and protect it.

This liquidity you talk of has been built up in just 2 years. That's peanuts.
And the things you speak of here are no what you OP was about.
You say you hate the devs and called them autists because they don't implement the features you want.
You were pretty specific.

No, I don't want the devs to implement any of my ideal features. I intended to claim the features should implement themselves. I only railed against their ideal solutions. I don't want a damn thing from them. I only want them not to do certain things.

From your OP: "The tech IS better guys. There are thin clients and ewallets that resolve this but you deride them and continue to work on a vision of software nobody wants. "

Sounds like you want a change where the devs don't (yet) want it.
Don't go twisting your own words now...

[mobodick]

Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.

Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...

Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.

Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.

I'll say it one last time: Making my own coin doesn't do anything towards the ends a lot of us espouse. We value our Bitcoins as they are and we intend to protect them.

Well, aparently you don't like bitcoin the way they are since you're calling the devs names because they do not want to change.
You've got some major circular routings in your brain...

[Atlas]

If I just wanted "Bitcoins" to play around with like a kid and monopoly money, I would of created an alternate chain right now. That does not answer my concerns, at all -- AT ALL. The only thing worth defending is what we have now.

I am invested in a large sum of Bitcoins. I am guessing you guys have none. This is just a game for you, isn't it?

But if your concerns were valid a differnt coin with properties you seek should take off and become better than bitcoin. So it would be stupid not to do it if you realy think it's that important.
You would just transfer your bitcoins to the new coin and according to you it should outperform bitcoin (as bitcoin usability and thus growth is hampered by current development).
If what you ask for is really important then you have no way to lose.

No, success isn't guaranteed. The liquidity and support we have for Bitcoin is not a widely available commodity.

I don't even seek different properties. I like what we have now but I am afraid of future change proposed by a trusted and central developer. I am just speaking against possible dangers. That does not require me to run off and reinvent the wheel.

Like it or leave it doesn't apply in this case. It's actually like it and protect it.

This liquidity you talk of has been built up in just 2 years. That's peanuts.
And the things you speak of here are no what you OP was about.
You say you hate the devs and called them autists because they don't implement the features you want.
You were pretty specific.

No, I don't want the devs to implement any of my ideal features. I intended to claim the features should implement themselves. I only railed against their ideal solutions. I don't want a damn thing from them. I only want them not to do certain things.

Sounds like you want a change where the devs don't (yet) want it.

Exactly. And I don't need the dev's approval for my ideals to be implemented. They can be implemented with enough social resistance.

[Atlas]

Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.

Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...

Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.

Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.

I'll say it one last time: Making my own coin doesn't do anything towards the ends a lot of us espouse. We value our Bitcoins as they are and we intend to protect them.

Well, aparently you don't like bitcoin the way they are since you're calling the devs names because they do not want to change.
You've got some major circular routings in your brain...

The devs aren't Bitcoin. That's the entire point.

[mobodick]

If I just wanted "Bitcoins" to play around with like a kid and monopoly money, I would of created an alternate chain right now. That does not answer my concerns, at all -- AT ALL. The only thing worth defending is what we have now.

I am invested in a large sum of Bitcoins. I am guessing you guys have none. This is just a game for you, isn't it?

But if your concerns were valid a differnt coin with properties you seek should take off and become better than bitcoin. So it would be stupid not to do it if you realy think it's that important.
You would just transfer your bitcoins to the new coin and according to you it should outperform bitcoin (as bitcoin usability and thus growth is hampered by current development).
If what you ask for is really important then you have no way to lose.

No, success isn't guaranteed. The liquidity and support we have for Bitcoin is not a widely available commodity.

I don't even seek different properties. I like what we have now but I am afraid of future change proposed by a trusted and central developer. I am just speaking against possible dangers. That does not require me to run off and reinvent the wheel.

Like it or leave it doesn't apply in this case. It's actually like it and protect it.

This liquidity you talk of has been built up in just 2 years. That's peanuts.
And the things you speak of here are no what you OP was about.
You say you hate the devs and called them autists because they don't implement the features you want.
You were pretty specific.

No, I don't want the devs to implement any of my ideal features. I intended to claim the features should implement themselves. I only railed against their ideal solutions. I don't want a damn thing from them. I only want them not to do certain things.

Sounds like you want a change where the devs don't (yet) want it.

Exactly. And I don't need the dev's approval for my ideals to be implemented. They can be implemented with enough social resistance.

Then why the hell bother with hating them and calling them names for not implementing the stuff?
It seems much more that you are just a pathetic and unskilled kid desperately dependant on something from people who do possess the skills to implement the change.

[mobodick]

Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.

Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...

Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.

Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.

I'll say it one last time: Making my own coin doesn't do anything towards the ends a lot of us espouse. We value our Bitcoins as they are and we intend to protect them.

Well, aparently you don't like bitcoin the way they are since you're calling the devs names because they do not want to change.
You've got some major circular routings in your brain...

The devs aren't Bitcoin. That's the entire point.

Show me how that is true for the client and the protocols.

[Atlas]

Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.

Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...

Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.

Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.

I'll say it one last time: Making my own coin doesn't do anything towards the ends a lot of us espouse. We value our Bitcoins as they are and we intend to protect them.

Well, aparently you don't like bitcoin the way they are since you're calling the devs names because they do not want to change.
You've got some major circular routings in your brain...

The devs aren't Bitcoin. That's the entire point.

Show me how that is true for the client and the protocols.

Who do you think assembles and markets the majority of mining software suites? Not the dev team. They only add to the protocol at their discretion and the miners could get vulnerabilities checked through other means.

As for clients, everybody is moving to online wallets, many with custom software.

[mobodick]

Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.

Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...

Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.

Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.

I'll say it one last time: Making my own coin doesn't do anything towards the ends a lot of us espouse. We value our Bitcoins as they are and we intend to protect them.

Well, aparently you don't like bitcoin the way they are since you're calling the devs names because they do not want to change.
You've got some major circular routings in your brain...

The devs aren't Bitcoin. That's the entire point.

Show me how that is true for the client and the protocols.

Who do you think assembles and markets the majority of mining software suites? Not the dev team. They only add to the protocol at their discretion and the miners could get vulnerabilities checked through other means.

As for clients, everybody is moving to online wallets, many with custom software.

The same people that thought the bitcoin system was good enough to build mining suites for. It was their choice to put trust in the system.

[Atlas]

Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.

Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...

Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.

Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.

I'll say it one last time: Making my own coin doesn't do anything towards the ends a lot of us espouse. We value our Bitcoins as they are and we intend to protect them.

Well, aparently you don't like bitcoin the way they are since you're calling the devs names because they do not want to change.
You've got some major circular routings in your brain...

The devs aren't Bitcoin. That's the entire point.

Show me how that is true for the client and the protocols.

Who do you think assembles and markets the majority of mining software suites? Not the dev team. They only add to the protocol at their discretion and the miners could get vulnerabilities checked through other means.

As for clients, everybody is moving to online wallets, many with custom software.

The same people that thought the bitcoin system was good enough to build mining suites for. It was their choice to put trust in the system.

At that time. They have no obligation to continue trusting Bitcoind forever.

[Richy_T]

Except a fork in this case creates an entirely different currency. I don't want to reduce the value of the Bitcoins I have now or see them reduced.

Not really. As long as it implements the same underlying protocol, it is still bitcoins.

No, no it is not. I will not get $12 and upwards for an alternate Bitcoin not supported by most of the community.

But my understanding is that you're not so much complaining about the internals of bitcoin itself as with the software around it. Or maybe not. I'll have to go back and reread what you wrote. Definitely some of your issues could be fixed with a fork that would not change that it's bitcoins.

Edit: Yes, your post #1 linked to a complaint about disk IO and time to verify the block chain. Both of these could be resolved without giving up on bitcoins. Though that may not be too helpful as the mainstream client is what people will be exposed to in general. Like you say, there are already lightweight wallets out there.

[mobodick]

Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.

Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...

Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.

Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.

I'll say it one last time: Making my own coin doesn't do anything towards the ends a lot of us espouse. We value our Bitcoins as they are and we intend to protect them.

Well, aparently you don't like bitcoin the way they are since you're calling the devs names because they do not want to change.
You've got some major circular routings in your brain...

The devs aren't Bitcoin. That's the entire point.

Show me how that is true for the client and the protocols.

Who do you think assembles and markets the majority of mining software suites? Not the dev team. They only add to the protocol at their discretion and the miners could get vulnerabilities checked through other means.

As for clients, everybody is moving to online wallets, many with custom software.

The same people that thought the bitcoin system was good enough to build mining suites for. It was their choice to put trust in the system.

At that time. They have no obligation to continue trusting Bitcoind forever.

Of course they don't. But if they don't then they can start their own fork.

[Atlas]

Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.

Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...

Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.

Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.

I'll say it one last time: Making my own coin doesn't do anything towards the ends a lot of us espouse. We value our Bitcoins as they are and we intend to protect them.

Well, aparently you don't like bitcoin the way they are since you're calling the devs names because they do not want to change.
You've got some major circular routings in your brain...

The devs aren't Bitcoin. That's the entire point.

Show me how that is true for the client and the protocols.

Who do you think assembles and markets the majority of mining software suites? Not the dev team. They only add to the protocol at their discretion and the miners could get vulnerabilities checked through other means.

As for clients, everybody is moving to online wallets, many with custom software.

The same people that thought the bitcoin system was good enough to build mining suites for. It was their choice to put trust in the system.

At that time. They have no obligation to continue trusting Bitcoind forever.

Of course they don't. But if they don't then they can start their own fork.

...or they can just ignore the dev team's releases and do what they want with the current Bitcoin blockchain.

[mobodick]

Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.

Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...

Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.

Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.

I'll say it one last time: Making my own coin doesn't do anything towards the ends a lot of us espouse. We value our Bitcoins as they are and we intend to protect them.

Well, aparently you don't like bitcoin the way they are since you're calling the devs names because they do not want to change.
You've got some major circular routings in your brain...

The devs aren't Bitcoin. That's the entire point.

Show me how that is true for the client and the protocols.

Who do you think assembles and markets the majority of mining software suites? Not the dev team. They only add to the protocol at their discretion and the miners could get vulnerabilities checked through other means.

As for clients, everybody is moving to online wallets, many with custom software.

The same people that thought the bitcoin system was good enough to build mining suites for. It was their choice to put trust in the system.

At that time. They have no obligation to continue trusting Bitcoind forever.

Of course they don't. But if they don't then they can start their own fork.

...or they can just ignore the dev team's releases and do what they want with the current Bitcoin blockchain.

Yeah, that's called a fork.

[Atlas]

Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.

Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...

Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.

Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.

I'll say it one last time: Making my own coin doesn't do anything towards the ends a lot of us espouse. We value our Bitcoins as they are and we intend to protect them.

Well, aparently you don't like bitcoin the way they are since you're calling the devs names because they do not want to change.
You've got some major circular routings in your brain...

The devs aren't Bitcoin. That's the entire point.

Show me how that is true for the client and the protocols.

Who do you think assembles and markets the majority of mining software suites? Not the dev team. They only add to the protocol at their discretion and the miners could get vulnerabilities checked through other means.

As for clients, everybody is moving to online wallets, many with custom software.

The same people that thought the bitcoin system was good enough to build mining suites for. It was their choice to put trust in the system.

At that time. They have no obligation to continue trusting Bitcoind forever.

Of course they don't. But if they don't then they can start their own fork.

...or they can just ignore the dev team's releases and do what they want with the current Bitcoin blockchain.

Yeah, that's called a fork.

Not if the dev team's new release is in the minority. The dev team could be the one forking.

[jasinlee]

Who doesnt enjoy a good forking though?

[Atlas]

Who doesnt enjoy a good forking though?

A fork isn't effective if only a small number of people are using it. It's like seceding from the United States -- but you're only a single man in a apartment.