Bitcoin Forum
December 08, 2022, 08:47:09 PM *
News: Reminder: do not keep your money in online accounts
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: why does it matter who directly takes bitcoin?  (Read 3473 times)
meebs (OP)
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 616
Merit: 500



View Profile
October 06, 2012, 02:01:34 AM
 #1

Seriously.. Why does THE important thing for bitcoin seem to be how many merchants take the currency? I mean.. good luck going anywhere with a bar of gold and buying services.

It would be like: "Hi there mister accountant! how many grams of gold will it cost me to get a tax return filed today? Do you have a scale on hand?"

Almost nobody takes gold as a payment method, yet it is 1600+/oz. Why must bitcoin be any different?

              ▄▄▄█████████████▄▄▄
           ▄████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████████▄
        ▄██████▀▀             ▀▀██████▄
      ▄█████▀▀                    ▀▀█████▄
     █████▀                          ▀█████
    ████▀          ▄▄███████▄▄         ▀████
   ████▌        ▄██▀▀▀    ▀▀▀██▄        ▐████
  ████▌       ▄██▀            ▀██▄       ▐████
 ▐████       ██▀   ▄▄█▀▀▀█▄▄    ▀██       ████▌
 ████▌      ▐█▌   █▀  ▄▄   ▀▀             ▐████
▐████       ██  █▌  █▌ █████████████      ████▌
▐████       ██  ▐█  ▐█                     ████▌
▐████       ██  █▌  █▌ █████████████      ████▌
 ████▌      ▐█▌   █▄  ▀▀   ▄▄    ██▀      ▐████
 ▐████       ██▄   ▀▀█▄▄▄█▀▀    ██▌       ████▌
  █████       ▀██▄            ▄██▀       █████
   █████        ▀██▄▄▄    ▄▄▄██▀        █████
    █████          ▀▀███████▀▀         █████
     █████▄                          ▄█████
      ▀█████▄▄                    ▄▄█████▀
        ▀██████▄▄             ▄▄██████▀
           ▀████████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄████████▀
              ▀▀▀█████████████▀▀▀
Global Cryptocurrency
          ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

  DECENTRALISING PRODUCTION, LOGISTICS AND PAYMENT 
                ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬   3D SERVICE      32 BAY     GCC WEBWALLET
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

1670532429
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1670532429

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1670532429
Reply with quote  #2

1670532429
Report to moderator
According to NIST and ECRYPT II, the cryptographic algorithms used in Bitcoin are expected to be strong until at least 2030. (After that, it will not be too difficult to transition to different algorithms.)
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
BitPay Business Solutions
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 500


View Profile WWW
October 06, 2012, 02:10:55 AM
 #2

because gold is meant to be stored.  that is its value, being indestructible, etc.

Bitcoin is meant to be transferred.  That is its value.  Moving instantly anywhere in the world...

BitPay : The World Leader in Bitcoin Business Solutions

https://bitpay.com

Does your website accept bitcoins?
ralree
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518
Merit: 500


Manateeeeeeees


View Profile
October 06, 2012, 02:44:38 AM
 #3

Really, if credit card companies just took payments in BTC, that would fix basically everything.

1MANaTeEZoH4YkgMYz61E5y4s9BYhAuUjG
odolvlobo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3794
Merit: 2749



View Profile
October 06, 2012, 02:59:25 AM
 #4

Gold maintains its value simply because of tradition and convention. Gold has been around for a long time and it remains an integral part of the economy. There is still a lot of gold trading going on in the world, though much less at the consumer level. For example, the biggest ETF in the world is GLD.

Bitcoin doesn't have that status (yet) or that level of trading. If nobody takes bitcoin, then it has no value, by definition. I think that bitcoin will continue to increase in importance and it will quickly become a widespread underground currency.

Buy stuff on Amazon with BTC or convert Amazon points to BTC here: Purse.io
Join an anti-signature campaign: Click ignore on the members of signature campaigns.
PGP Fingerprint: 6B6BC26599EC24EF7E29A405EAF050539D0B2925 Signing address: 13GAVJo8YaAuenj6keiEykwxWUZ7jMoSLt
allthingsluxury
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1540
Merit: 1029



View Profile WWW
October 06, 2012, 03:54:52 AM
 #5

The more merchants that decide to accept bitcoins, the better for the bitcoin economy.

franky1
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3696
Merit: 3106



View Profile
October 06, 2012, 04:48:57 AM
 #6

just need to shed the bad skin away from bitcoin, (scam, hacking, etc) for it to be an accepted form of currency in real world merchants eyes.

bitcoin is like US FIAT dollars bank notes.. but painted red to show they know it came from 'POSSIBLE' criminal activity

imagine if someone offered a business $10,000... the merchant would smile.. the second you show them the red bank notes. would they still take it with the same open arms and smiley faces knowing it will show on their books as funds from possible sources with bad reputation and criminal behavior.

we need to get bitcoin green..

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
allthingsluxury
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1540
Merit: 1029



View Profile WWW
October 06, 2012, 05:05:14 AM
 #7

Agreed. I believe that will change over time and the light cast on bitcoin will be more and more positive over time.

kwoody
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 454
Merit: 250


Technology and Women. Amazing.


View Profile
October 06, 2012, 05:08:05 AM
 #8

just need to shed the bad skin away from bitcoin, (scam, hacking, etc) for it to be an accepted form of currency in real world merchants eyes.

bitcoin is like US FIAT dollars bank notes.. but painted red to show they know it came from 'POSSIBLE' criminal activity

imagine if someone offered a business $10,000... the merchant would smile.. the second you show them the red bank notes. would they still take it with the same open arms and smiley faces knowing it will show on their books as funds from possible sources with bad reputation and criminal behavior.

we need to get bitcoin green..

"Green" Bitcoins would be worth much less. For now, the majority of Bitcoin's value stems from illegal and otherwise illicit transactions; they keep the value as high as it is. There is little-to-no incentive to purchase BTC right now unless you need them to purchase things that would otherwise be unobtainable with fiat currency, or if you want to make an internet purchase without leaving a paper trail. They can be used to store wealth and hide your financial assets from being taxed, at the cost of not having a bank to insure your assets and secure them as such. If merchants started paying employees in BTC it'd be mutually beneficial to the employer and the BTC market as a whole. The employer would be buying up sell orders on the exchanges, raising BTC's value, and he/she wouldn't have to pay taxes. It'd be the ultimate way to get paid "under the table".
franky1
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3696
Merit: 3106



View Profile
October 06, 2012, 05:18:25 AM
 #9


"Green" Bitcoins would be worth much less. For now, the majority of Bitcoin's value stems from illegal and otherwise illicit transactions; they keep the value as high as it is. There is little-to-no incentive to purchase BTC right now unless you need them to purchase things that would otherwise be unobtainable with fiat currency, or if you want to make an internet purchase without leaving a paper trail. They can be used to store wealth and hide your financial assets from being taxed, at the cost of not having a bank to insure your assets and secure them as such. If merchants started paying employees in BTC it'd be mutually beneficial to the employer and the BTC market as a whole. The employer would be buying up sell orders on the exchanges, raising BTC's value, and he/she wouldn't have to pay taxes. It'd be the ultimate way to get paid "under the table".

understandable.. and thats the hopeful future result.. but to get there u need to get people to trust bitcoin... first of all getting merchants to sell LEGAL products then once your able to buy daily household necessities then wages would be worth being put in as bitcoin as u know theres a nice variety of products to buy and live on.. not just drugs, gold and novalty t-shirts.

theres no point putting ur wages in bitcoin if your landlord/ electricity company, or the local 7-11 food shops dont accept them..ull be homeless and starving. especially if it takes 3 days for a employer to wire transfer their fiat wage into ur bitcoin exchange... for you to then cash out at the exchange back into fiat to pay your bills.. there is no benefit in thinking employee wages come first.

so asking employer to do that is not feasable YET. but theres nothing stopping u spending ur wages once u received them in fiat to then spend on bitcoins right now.

but step one has to be - bitcoin trust.
step 2 merchant LEGAL product sales
step 3 increase merchant / product range
step 4 employers pay wages in bitcoin
step 5 goodbye fiat lol (yea i wish)

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
Stephen Gornick
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2506
Merit: 1004


View Profile
October 06, 2012, 05:44:52 AM
 #10

Seriously.. Why does THE important thing for bitcoin seem to be how many merchants take the currency?

Converting between bitcoins and fiat incurs expenses.  If I have to cash out bitcoins to fiat, I pay a fee for that.  Or if the merchant receiving bitcoins cashes them out to fiat, then the merchant incurs the fee.  Sure, it might be less than 1% but it still is an avoidable conversion if I can pay with bitcoins and then the merchant can use the bitcoins for paying for some of its purchases.   So the more choices of places that bitcoins can be spent, the less the likelihood that the coins will need to be cashed out.


Unichange.me

            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █


Graet
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1001



View Profile WWW
October 06, 2012, 06:20:04 AM
 #11

OOOHHH
Electricity company - I paid my last power bill in Bitcoins through https://www.spendbitcoins.com - when they are buying they pay 2% above gox - worked well for me  Grin

how about company registration fees? I also paid Ozcoin Pooled Mining Pty Ltd annual review fee to http://www.asic.gov.au/ with Bitcoins through SpendBitcoins and again I got a 2% bonus for trading

Looking forward to the Bitinstant credit card as most of my income is Bitcoins and most of my bills in fiat these 2 services combined should make my life heaps easier Smiley
So it is starting to matter less who takes BTC directly

But for a strong and expanding Bitcoin economy we need to expand the ways we can use Bitcoin as a currency.
Where I can, I buy and sell stuff in Bitcoins and encourage others to as well.

I do not believe Bitcoin will replace any fiat currency and I am not of the school that thinks if I cant buy a stick of chewing gum with BTC Bitcoin has failed
I have never walked into a store and asked to pay for a stick of gum with paypal either Smiley

| Ozcoin Pooled Mining Pty Ltd https://ozcoin.net Double Geometric Reward System https://lc.ozcoin.net for Litecoin mining DGM| https://crowncloud.net VPS and Dedicated Servers for the BTC community
allthingsluxury
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1540
Merit: 1029



View Profile WWW
October 06, 2012, 07:18:23 AM
 #12

All Things Luxury fits both step 1 and 2 Franky. We are doing our part.

pretendo
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112
Merit: 10



View Profile
October 06, 2012, 07:48:28 AM
 #13

Bitcoin's utility is its ability to be exchanged for real things. If there's a barrier between this (requiring a step to transfer to fiat) it is that much less valuable
benjamindees
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 06, 2012, 10:38:41 AM
 #14

Velocity.

Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics
Jack1Rip1BurnIt
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 250


Trust me, these default swaps will limit the risks


View Profile
October 06, 2012, 08:28:22 PM
 #15

I do not believe Bitcoin will replace any fiat currency and I am not of the school that thinks if I cant buy a stick of chewing gum with BTC Bitcoin has failed
I have never walked into a store and asked to pay for a stick of gum with paypal either Smiley

+This

Successful trades with bels, misterbigg, ChrisNelson, shackleford, geniusboy91, and Isokivi.
TheButterZone
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2954
Merit: 1030


RIP Mommy


View Profile WWW
October 06, 2012, 08:54:46 PM
 #16

Seriously.. Why does THE important thing for bitcoin seem to be how many merchants take the currency?

Converting between bitcoins and fiat incurs expenses.  If I have to cash out bitcoins to fiat, I pay a fee for that.  Or if the merchant receiving bitcoins cashes them out to fiat, then the merchant incurs the fee.  Sure, it might be less than 1% but it still is an avoidable conversion if I can pay with bitcoins and then the merchant can use the bitcoins for paying for some of its purchases.   So the more choices of places that bitcoins can be spent, the less the likelihood that the coins will need to be cashed out.



Key word, I suppose, being "have" - in other words, immediately - or at end of day, ie Bit-Pay. If you get a liquidity provider rebate by doing limit sells that exceed all bids on the orderbook and are able to withdraw via ACH for free, or advertise on LocalBitcoins, then you're not forced to pay fees.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
coincollectingenterprises
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
October 07, 2012, 07:39:05 PM
 #17

What it comes down to is two things:

By accepting Bitcoins, will the business get more revenue.

By accepting Bitcoins, will the business get enough more revenue to cover the expense of time involved in accepting Bitcoins.

By accepting Bitcoins, will the business get enough revenue to cover any additional expenses involved in accepting Bitcoins.

By accepting Bitcoins, will the buyer paying in Bitcoins be willing to pay more money to the business in Bitcoins than previously used currency to cover any additional expenses involved in the conversion of Bitcoins to the geographically appropriate currency necessary for the business to continue to operate and conduct business.


Remember, a pre-existing business already conducts business. That may sound silly, but it's the most critical factor. There is no incentive for a business to accept Bitcoins if all four things above can't be reconciled.
Stephen Gornick
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2506
Merit: 1004


View Profile
October 07, 2012, 07:46:01 PM
 #18

What it comes down to is two things:

By accepting Bitcoins, will the business get more revenue.

By accepting Bitcoins, will the business get enough more revenue to cover the expense of time involved in accepting Bitcoins.

By accepting Bitcoins, will the business get enough revenue to cover any additional expenses involved in accepting Bitcoins.

By accepting Bitcoins, will the buyer paying in Bitcoins be willing to pay more money to the business in Bitcoins than previously used currency to cover any additional expenses involved in the conversion of Bitcoins to the geographically appropriate currency necessary for the business to continue to operate and conduct business.


Remember, a pre-existing business already conducts business. That may sound silly, but it's the most critical factor. There is no incentive for a business to accept Bitcoins if all four things above can't be reconciled.

Yet don't discount the residual earnings from conversion of a new customer for the business -- whereas that customer might otherwise have gone elsewhere.  And don't discount the potential for the business to lose revenue by not accepting bitcoin where the consumer prefers to use bitcoins for payment and prefers merchants who do accept bitcoin.

Look at the anonymous VPN marketplace.  Several of those vendors were not taking a leap of faith into accepting bitcoins, they were essentially forced to do so as they were losing market share to those who already do accept bitcoins.

Unichange.me

            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █
            █


BobbyJo
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 358
Merit: 250



View Profile WWW
October 07, 2012, 09:13:23 PM
 #19

As stated earlier, Gold is a store of value.  In times of crisis everyone takes their cash, stocks and bonds and buys gold. It is recognised as a safe investment.  BTC does not have that status and will not have for many years, if it takes off.  It needs to be recognised by everyone as somewhere to safely store your wealth.  At the moment, BTC is seen as a fringe experiment at best and a drug dealers/ money launderers tool at worse!  It will take a while to shake off that image.

DoomDumas
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000


Bitcoin


View Profile
October 08, 2012, 05:29:49 AM
 #20

because gold is meant to be stored.  that is its value, being indestructible, etc.

Bitcoin is meant to be transferred.  That is its value.  Moving instantly anywhere in the world...


Agree, BTC are more like micro-money..

If 1 billion earthlings use the 10 million BTC for micro payment... each btc would worth a lot too, like gold, but for different reason !
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!