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unchi
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August 23, 2015, 04:34:49 PM
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Be very wary of relying on JavaScript for security on sites such as blockchain.info and brainwallet.org. The site can change the JavaScript at any time unless you take unusual precautions, and browsers are not generally known for their airtight security.
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RappelzReborn
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August 23, 2015, 04:37:24 PM
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https://brainwallet.io

Deterministic Bitcoin Address Generator


What's the difference betewen this website and the old brainwallet.org that shutdown lately andhow this is safe from being cracked like the other one aswell ? using real informations may makei t easier to crack and not harder if you ask me  , because if someone know you well then you are screwed

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August 23, 2015, 04:57:20 PM
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What's the difference betewen this website and the old brainwallet.org that shutdown lately andhow this is safe from being cracked like the other one aswell ? using real informations may makei t easier to crack and not harder if you ask me  , because if someone know you well then you are screwed

Please see the "about" section for a detailed explanation.  Brainwallet.org only used one round of SHA256 to generate addresses, which made it extremely easy to brute force.  Brainwallet.io uses 262,144 iterations of the scrypt KDF.  As you can see, it takes a very long time to generate an address, and even with specialized hardware it would be too costly and impractical to conduct brute force attacks. 

The personal information that you enter is used as a salt for additional protection.  An attacker would have to target you personally, but they would still have to brute force your passphrase.  This would still be a very time consuming process, so you would not be screwed.  It would be significantly more secure than using brainwallet.org.

So then the user could only reclaim their brainwallet funds as long as your service is operational or unless they saved the site files locally. This can be a downside to many people if they want to hold their coins for a long time in a brainwallet.

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August 23, 2015, 05:02:43 PM
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What's the difference betewen this website and the old brainwallet.org that shutdown lately andhow this is safe from being cracked like the other one aswell ? using real informations may makei t easier to crack and not harder if you ask me  , because if someone know you well then you are screwed

Please see the "about" section for a detailed explanation.  Brainwallet.org only used one round of SHA256 to generate addresses, which made it extremely easy to brute force.  Brainwallet.io uses 262,144 iterations of the scrypt KDF.  As you can see, it takes a very long time to generate an address, and even with specialized hardware it would be too costly and impractical to conduct brute force attacks. 

The personal information that you enter is used as a salt for additional protection.  An attacker would have to target you personally, but they would still have to brute force your passphrase.  This would still be a very time consuming process, so you would not be screwed.  It would be significantly more secure than using brainwallet.org.
Wow I just tested it and I have to say it takes very much time.
I think that time is not necessary though.
A good passphrase hashed about 1000 times could withstand most if not all types of attacks...
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August 23, 2015, 05:25:55 PM
 #5




https://brainwallet.io

Deterministic Bitcoin Address Generator


Is there any chance you could also include the other tools the old brainwallet had, such as secret exponent <-> WIF, converter, sign and verify? Having those in one place, even though I never used the brainwallet feature itself, was very useful to me.

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August 23, 2015, 08:03:20 PM
 #6

What's the difference betewen this website and the old brainwallet.org that shutdown lately andhow this is safe from being cracked like the other one aswell ? using real informations may makei t easier to crack and not harder if you ask me  , because if someone know you well then you are screwed

Please see the "about" section for a detailed explanation.  Brainwallet.org only used one round of SHA256 to generate addresses, which made it extremely easy to brute force.  Brainwallet.io uses 262,144 iterations of the scrypt KDF.  As you can see, it takes a very long time to generate an address, and even with specialized hardware it would be too costly and impractical to conduct brute force attacks. 

The personal information that you enter is used as a salt for additional protection.  An attacker would have to target you personally, but they would still have to brute force your passphrase.  This would still be a very time consuming process, so you would not be screwed.  It would be significantly more secure than using brainwallet.org.
Wow I just tested it and I have to say it takes very much time.
I think that time is not necessary though.
A good passphrase hashed about 1000 times could withstand most if not all types of attacks...

I would beg to differ.  For a few hundred bucks you can buy an ASIC that can run through 1,000,000,000,000 SHA256 hashes per second.

Such an ASIC can only hash 80 byte block headers by incrementing a nonce. However, I'd reasonably agree that 500k is necessary for security in the context of Bitcoin.

I have recently become active again after a long period of inactivity. Cryptographic proof that my account has not been compromised is available.
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August 23, 2015, 09:52:58 PM
 #7

If you'd like to see for yourself, use this online scrypt generator:

http://kclnn.github.io/js-scrypt-async/test_scrypt_browser.html

And type in a passphrase and salt (where the salt is your name, email, phone, and DoB combined with no spaces), with parameters N=262144, r=8, p=1, and # of bytes = 32.

Then copy and paste the output into the brainwallet generator at https://bitaddress.org.

You will arrive at the same private key.

Thanks for replying. Ahh, this is very cool.  Tested it out and it works. In fact I can just input the scrypt hash directly into "wallet details" section on bitaddress and it's done.

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August 24, 2015, 02:00:56 PM
 #8

Bitcoin “Brainwallets” and why they are a bad idea

http://insecurety.net/?p=866

considering using a website app for making a brainwallet is as dumb as increasing blocksize.

people are just stupid. its amazing.
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August 24, 2015, 02:02:57 PM
 #9

Bitcoin “Brainwallets” and why they are a bad idea

http://insecurety.net/?p=866

considering using a website app for making a brainwallet is as dumb as increasing blocksize.

people are just stupid. its amazing.

Yes, but you are missing a key aspect of this new site. The algorithm involves 524288 rounds of hashing, which is impractical to bruteforce. Instead of copy pasting that link, you should discuss what technical weaknesses are still applicable for this specific brainwallet site.

I have recently become active again after a long period of inactivity. Cryptographic proof that my account has not been compromised is available.
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August 24, 2015, 02:14:43 PM
 #10

Bitcoin “Brainwallets” and why they are a bad idea

http://insecurety.net/?p=866

considering using a website app for making a brainwallet is as dumb as increasing blocksize.

people are just stupid. its amazing.

Yes, but you are missing a key aspect of this new site. The algorithm involves 524288 rounds of hashing, which is impractical to bruteforce. Instead of copy pasting that link, you should discuss what technical weaknesses are still applicable for this specific brainwallet site.


yea alrite, just go for it then.
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August 24, 2015, 09:12:45 PM
 #11

Bitcoin “Brainwallets” and why they are a bad idea

http://insecurety.net/?p=866

considering using a website app for making a brainwallet is as dumb as increasing blocksize.

people are just stupid. its amazing.

Yes, but you are missing a key aspect of this new site. The algorithm involves 524288 rounds of hashing, which is impractical to bruteforce. Instead of copy pasting that link, you should discuss what technical weaknesses are still applicable for this specific brainwallet site.


yea alrite, just go for it then.

No, seriously. You're not addressing any of the points I'm giving (I personally don't use brainwallets as I don't have a reason to. Others might). You pasted a link to article whose points don't all apply and when discourse begins you dismissively disregard it. Granted, it does apply to those who pick passwords like "Mittens is a cute cat" and "password123", but it doesn't undermine the security any more than someone that allows malware on their computer and has no wallet passphrase. Like any tool, it's useless or dangerous when given to an idiot.

Also, I'd be very interested if you come up with a way to bruteforce 2^18 rounds of Scrypt KDF over a space of passwords combined with names, emails, and other info accepted by the fields of the site. And more so, I'd be very interested if you came up with a program that managed to find a passphrase like "NiSiLLy71622--Green/Loss\\5114. Ugly goblins eat pound cake gladly 724287!" that someone actually used in a reasonable amount of time.

I have recently become active again after a long period of inactivity. Cryptographic proof that my account has not been compromised is available.
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August 25, 2015, 04:16:22 PM
 #12

UPDATE

Brainwallet.io now gives you the choice between two different salt types.  If you don't feel comfortable entering your personal info, now you can enter a username, password, and 4-digit PIN instead. 

Having options is never a bad thing. Maybe this service can restore some of the faith in brain wallets, even though there will always be people opposing the idea [and perhaps rightfully so].
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August 26, 2015, 02:44:17 PM
 #13

https://rya.nc/defcon-brainwallets.html
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August 26, 2015, 03:19:04 PM
 #14

Can you please go somewhere else posting offtopic?
It's clear that you don't understand the difference between this (and Warp Wallet) and the common brainwallet as it was brainwallet.org.

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August 26, 2015, 03:21:56 PM
 #15


No FUDs here please!

LOL

Please read this: http://blog.codinghorror.com/speed-hashing/

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August 26, 2015, 03:25:30 PM
 #16

I think this is not a bad idea and for those who still seem to think it is impossible to create a good brainwallet please note that this one: https://blockchain.info/address/1Au4v6dZacFVsWXeKUMJd99AtyBZeqti2L still has its 1 BTC (that has been there for three years).

Of course if you are going to use a stupid pass phrase then you are going to lose your coins but with a decent enough pass phrase and especially with decent key hardening (500K rounds seems actually over the top but will provide "future proofing") you will be safe from brute forcing.

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
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August 26, 2015, 04:31:29 PM
 #17

We are not responsible for any losses in bitcoin that you may incur for any reason.
I kinda feel cautious with this sentence, especially with the underlined words.

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August 26, 2015, 04:37:13 PM
 #18

Congratz unchi for this awesome project, i tried it with a passphrase and salt just one digit and it take some time to generate. And we mostly care about security, good luck in next updates.
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August 26, 2015, 09:38:58 PM
 #19

UPDATE

A random 12-word passphrase generator has been added to brainwallet.io.  It selects words from a list of 1,626 memorable words in a cryptographically random manner.  This is a similar process to what Electrum uses for wallet seeds.

Humans are known to be poor entropy sources when it comes to generating random words.  This should be a useful functionality for people who have doubts in the security of their passphrase.

Remember to always write down your passphrase!



This is an update, thank you unchi, you are very kind. It's really hard to remember 12 different words of this kind.
What about to release an update for print Smiley a good design of the printed page?

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August 26, 2015, 09:47:21 PM
 #20

UPDATE

A random 12-word passphrase generator has been added to brainwallet.io.  It selects words from a list of 1,626 memorable words in a cryptographically random manner.  This is a similar process to what Electrum uses for wallet seeds.

Humans are known to be poor entropy sources when it comes to generating random words.  This should be a useful functionality for people who have doubts in the security of their passphrase.

Remember to always write down your passphrase!


Is brainwallet.io using the same word list as Electrum, or do you have a public copy of the wordlist you're using if you're using a different list?

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