ANTMINER S7 is available at bitmaintech.com with 4.86TH/s, 0.25J/GH

[Prelude]

I just had a thought about bitmain requiring the 3 PCI-e connectors be plugged in. It's not a matter of power per connector, it's most likely to insure voltage being delivered to the boards is as close to 12V as possible. Using only 2 connectors could result in 11.9V or lower voltage, depending on the capacity of the wires used.

[aurel57]

I bought two s7's using money on a credit card (converted to BTC) but it has low APR and I get points for using it.. coupled with free electricity I should be alright.  The only reason I can see taking out an actual "loan" for gear would be starting a large farm and needing capital.. but youd have to start off pretty big

I could borrow 7500 for 6 months 0 interest. I could order 4 s-7's

Interest is only part of it...we dont know what the difficulty is going to do or if the rigs will ROI. Me and you Phil being retired have less at risk but someone hoping to make enough to pay off that CC have a lot at risk.  But a interest free loan is always good when you got the money to pay off the loan when your ready.  

[philipma1957]

I bought two s7's using money on a credit card (converted to BTC) but it has low APR and I get points for using it.. coupled with free electricity I should be alright.  The only reason I can see taking out an actual "loan" for gear would be starting a large farm and needing capital.. but youd have to start off pretty big

I could borrow 7500 for 6 months 0 interest. I could order 4 s-7's

Interest is only part of it...we dont know what the difficulty is going to do or if the rigs will ROI. Me and you Phil being retired have less at risk but someone hoping to make enough to pay off that CC have a lot at risk.  But a interest free loan is always good when you got the money to pay off the loan when your ready.  

yeah I am not doing 4 on a 6 month loan  but maybe 1.

It is a tough call my paypal will :

A) give a 2% discount pay up front
B) give a 6 month free loan

I would order one from lee's group and let him host it for me.  I am tempted just not quite sure if I want to do it.

[adaseb]

I don't think its smart buying these S7's using loans or credit cards.

Think about it

 Bitmain has much insider knowledge about many manufacteurs of ASICs. Since they have decided to publicly release the S7 to the public instead of mining on their own and keeping the hashrate low is because they determined that they will make more money by selling the equipment instead of mining on their own.

If they knew the difficulty would stay flat for the next 6 months or so, they would keep selling us their S5 chips instead.

Who knows maybe this S7 was created by them 9 months ago, and they have been mining with them ever since.

Bitmain is a business and they do what they can to make the most money.

[dog1965]

I don't think its smart buying these S7's using loans or credit cards.

Think about it

 Bitmain has much insider knowledge about many manufacteurs of ASICs. Since they have decided to publicly release the S7 to the public instead of mining on their own and keeping the hashrate low is because they determined that they will make more money by selling the equipment instead of mining on their own.

If they knew the difficulty would stay flat for the next 6 months or so, they would keep selling us their S5 chips instead.

Who knows maybe this S7 was created by them 9 months ago, and they have been mining with them ever since.

Bitmain is a business and they do what they can to make the most money.

now that makes sense.

[wlefever]

I don't think its smart buying these S7's using loans or credit cards.

Think about it

 Bitmain has much insider knowledge about many manufacteurs of ASICs. Since they have decided to publicly release the S7 to the public instead of mining on their own and keeping the hashrate low is because they determined that they will make more money by selling the equipment instead of mining on their own.

If they knew the difficulty would stay flat for the next 6 months or so, they would keep selling us their S5 chips instead.

Who knows maybe this S7 was created by them 9 months ago, and they have been mining with them ever since.

Bitmain is a business and they do what they can to make the most money.

I would agree with this, and say at least half of this year they were replacing S5's with S7.  Albeit just speculation.

[Marvell1]

I don't think its smart buying these S7's using loans or credit cards.

Think about it

 Bitmain has much insider knowledge about many manufacteurs of ASICs. Since they have decided to publicly release the S7 to the public instead of mining on their own and keeping the hashrate low is because they determined that they will make more money by selling the equipment instead of mining on their own.

If they knew the difficulty would stay flat for the next 6 months or so, they would keep selling us their S5 chips instead.

Who knows maybe this S7 was created by them 9 months ago, and they have been mining with them ever since.

Bitmain is a business and they do what they can to make the most money.

I would agree with this, and say at least half of this year they were replacing S5's with S7.  Albeit just speculation.

Kinda hard to believe not a single picture snuck out or son lips didn't waggle in six months, its a pretty big company.

Maybe 3 months but six ? No way

[notlist3d]

I don't think its smart buying these S7's using loans or credit cards.

Think about it

 Bitmain has much insider knowledge about many manufacteurs of ASICs. Since they have decided to publicly release the S7 to the public instead of mining on their own and keeping the hashrate low is because they determined that they will make more money by selling the equipment instead of mining on their own.

If they knew the difficulty would stay flat for the next 6 months or so, they would keep selling us their S5 chips instead.

Who knows maybe this S7 was created by them 9 months ago, and they have been mining with them ever since.

Bitmain is a business and they do what they can to make the most money.

I would agree with this, and say at least half of this year they were replacing S5's with S7.  Albeit just speculation.

Kinda hard to believe not a single picture snuck out or son lips didn't waggle in six months, its a pretty big company.

Maybe 3 months but six ? No way

If you can look up date batch 1 used went up we know for sure by then they were doing this.  I don't think they were mass producing 6 months ago.

Although it would not surprised me if they had prototypes 6 months ago.   

[Finksy]

The answer is always in the hashrate, you can't hide that.  And don't believe for a minute the hogwash that Bitmain is purposely keeping hashrate stable to not affect the difficulty rating.  No self-interested capitalistic company would ever do that, all it would do is help your competitors.

[gallery2000]

Confucius says: Man that needs loan to buy bitcoin miners, has hole in pocket

Very wise

I would agree.  I only invest my own money in mining.   I can't imagine taking a loan for a miner. 

So much is unknown just like difficulty.  I can't guarantee I will ROI so how can I risk others money on that same investment.  I do it out of a hobby I love, and a hope of ROI.

Confucius says: Man that uses his own money to buy bitcoin miners, has overdraft bank account.

[QuintLeo]

Based on what I saw, I'd estimate Bitmain was replaceing S5's with S7s for 2 months at most, and possibly with S5+ for a month or two before that (and then likely sold those S5+ as "new" units once they got the S7 into production).

 I don't believe for a microsecond that the S7 has been in production for 6+ months.

[Mr.paul]

ANy one have S7 coupon sell ? PM thanks.

[philipma1957]

The answer is always in the hashrate, you can't hide that.  And don't believe for a minute the hogwash that Bitmain is purposely keeping hashrate stable to not affect the difficulty rating.  No self-interested capitalistic company would ever do that, all it would do is help your competitors.

wrong (at least that is my guess) 

you just need to handshake with the top 3 or 4 builders to increase as a team.  70 to 80 % goes to them the rest to little guys via sales to the public like the s-7.

The only way you go against the deal is if you build a super chip  say .01 watts you then have a huge edge over the other top 3-4 builders.

The top builders are in agreement to not be greedy and keep shares equal.

every piece of hash rate shows this to be the case this pattern started last fall.

but that is how I read the hashrate.

I do agree with you that if one of the big builders really believed they had designed  a big edge they would try to get more hashrate.

but like I said what do I know from the inside of any builder's company  nothing  all guesses on my part.

[carlosmnk]

The answer is always in the hashrate, you can't hide that.  And don't believe for a minute the hogwash that Bitmain is purposely keeping hashrate stable to not affect the difficulty rating.  No self-interested capitalistic company would ever do that, all it would do is help your competitors.

wrong (at least that is my guess)  

you just need to handshake with the top 3 or 4 builders to increase as a team.  70 to 80 % goes to them the rest to little guys via sales to the public like the s-7.

The only way you go against the deal is if you build a super chip  say .01 watts you then have a huge edge over the other top 3-4 builders.

The top builders are in agreement to not be greedy and keep shares equal.

every piece of hash rate shows this to be the case this pattern started last fall.

but that is how I read the hashrate.

I do agree with you that if one of the big builders really believed they had designed  a big edge they would try to get more hashrate.

but like I said what do I know from the inside of any builder's company  nothing  all guesses on my part.

I'm agree. The best thing you can do is spend less watt per gh/s. If you have a mine hashing 30ph/s, your goal will be able to spend less electricity, because the more hashrate the blockchain does the less earns you will do.

[carlosmnk]

ANy one have S7 coupon sell ? PM thanks.

Yes, there are some people selling them, but not here. Try at "Bitcoin Forum > Economy > Marketplace > Goods > Computer hardware": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=75.0

[Mr.paul]

ANy one have S7 coupon sell ? PM thanks.

Yes, there are some people selling them, but not here. Try at "Bitcoin Forum > Economy > Marketplace > Goods > Computer hardware": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=75.0

Okie..thanks you

[lucky1974]

Based on what I saw, I'd estimate Bitmain was replaceing S5's with S7s for 2 months at most, and possibly with S5+ for a month or two before that (and then likely sold those S5+ as "new" units once they got the S7 into production).

 I don't believe for a microsecond that the S7 has been in production for 6+ months.

yea okay and you own bitmain right.

[notlist3d]

Confucius says: Man that needs loan to buy bitcoin miners, has hole in pocket

Very wise

I would agree.  I only invest my own money in mining.   I can't imagine taking a loan for a miner. 

So much is unknown just like difficulty.  I can't guarantee I will ROI so how can I risk others money on that same investment.  I do it out of a hobby I love, and a hope of ROI.

Confucius says: Man that uses his own money to buy bitcoin miners, has overdraft bank account.

Confucius is wrong.  Confucius should only spend some of his money on a hobby not all

[notlist3d]

Based on what I saw, I'd estimate Bitmain was replaceing S5's with S7s for 2 months at most, and possibly with S5+ for a month or two before that (and then likely sold those S5+ as "new" units once they got the S7 into production).

 I don't believe for a microsecond that the S7 has been in production for 6+ months.

When you say what you saw what are you referring to?  Did you get to see a plant? Just hashing online?   What specifically?

[Finksy]

you just need to handshake with the top 3 or 4 builders to increase as a team.  

I'll go ahead and stop you right there Phillip    Have you ever seen anything that has lead you to believe there is even professional courtesy for one another among the big dogs, let alone actual collusion?  That is a massive assumption, and one that I do not believe to be true. There will always be the company that thinks that they will be better, more efficient, more dense & finished sooner, and would only be helping their competitors by putting a leash on their own hashrate.

It's the prisoner's dilemma, that which is best for all as a whole will often not be the decision made by the individuals.  Network hashrate has been increasing almost continuously, and it takes many more PH/s at every adjustment to maintain your chunk of the revenue stream.  If what you said was true, what incentive would they have for developing new miners as quickly as possible with higher density?  I would bet that the amount of money saved on electricity over an entire year (if in-house hashrate were to remain flat) would not make up the amount of money required to develop and build a new generation chip & miner.  They do it because A) they feel they need to push it further in order to survive and B) they want to get an edge on competitors and drive the smaller ones out of business, freeing up more revenue for themselves.  Consider this, if they had kept hashrate constant over the past year by colluding, AMT/BFL (among other bankruptee's) hardware would still be profitable and competing with them on the network today.  By driving the hashrate higher, they knock more people out of the runnings, and take a higher percentage for themselves (even if it comes at a cost).

I do agree with you that if one of the big builders really believed they had designed  a big edge they would try to get more hashrate.

And there is the truth Phil, that's what they all believe.  Look at the bullshit PR and fluff that goes on by the manufacturers (look at Bitfury's Twitter page for some examples).  It's all secrecy and speculation, to try to discourage your competitors from further development.  (read: the exact opposite of collusion)

If you believe that KNC, Bitfury, Innosilicon, SP-Tech and Bitmain have a handshake agreement to keep the network flat, I'm not sure what to tell you except look at the fact that the network hashrate has doubled in the past year (which has been mild compared to the prior year). The reason it has been increasingly more slowly recently is due to the fact that many of the competitors have been knocked out of the game (due to the fact that they keep driving it higher), or were in between generations.