otc-rating

[Lurk]

i have a question about the whole idea basically and am wondering what others think.
  im newly verified and i have one rating from a friend of mine that we both lend too on a regular basis depending on our current situations financially (usd and btc)  since we have done so many trades he rated me.    That cost me nothing.

 i ussually use bitinstant and i buy less that $100 worth of btc at a time.  the fee they charge me for moneygram is $3.95

 instead of using bitinstant i asked around otc channel to see if i anyone wanted me to buy a moneypak or xbox live card or any other sort of prepaid card to sell for btc, that way i could get more ratings and improve my trust level, getting ratings from someone else other than my friend i trust completely and always do trades with.

  ok.... so the fees on these prepaid cards are anywhere from $5.00 to $6.00  most people on otc i found want to pay you less than the actual face value of the card in bitcoins.  so your losing your $5.00 fee for purchasing the card and you are also losing out on being paid less than face value.

 so basically im just curious, if you're willing to lose money on a bunch of these trades you could raise your rating substantially.
   so is a bitcoin-otc rating basically bought?

 most people who are willing to lend bitcoins want to see you have a high otc rating and are trustworthy, but if you can just take a hit on these cards and build up your rating   what is an otc rating really worth?
  if i lost $100 on building up my rating  and people see that im trustworthy  what would stop someone from getting a huge btc loan with this bought rating and skate with the funds?

 im just a little confused about the whole thing and how to build a rating without loseing money or basically "buying" my rating.

  i tried putting goods up on the forum to trade for bitcoin but there didnt seem to be any interest so i moved them to ebay, which ill pay a paypal fee to recieve money.
   if i then use paypal to try and buy bitcoin from someone i lose out again covering the sellers fee.  then once again ive bought a rating.

I really have no computer skills to trade for btc, any of my technology (ipod, xbox, camera) or my guitars im not wiling to part with for usd or for btc.

  how can someone legitimetly(spelling wrong)  build an otc rating without basically "buying" it?  i understand people hold this rating to a high standard and use it to determine people are trust worthy  and maybe i dont fully understand the gpg keys and the ratings all together.  but if you bought your rating skipped out with the money, what would stop someone from erasing whatever is certified(i dont understand, is it just the otc user name?) or erase the wallet or whatever is connected to otc and just start over?

   im sorry if this has been discussed before, and i dont fully understand what my otc rating means.   all i know is it seems like its going to cost me money to raise it.  and that kind of devalues the rating for me.

   if i can just bitinstant for $3.95  instead of loseing on every otc transaction to build rep, wheres the bonus and value of the otc rating?

                     thanks for reading and id really like to hear some responses to this!!

[Stephen Gornick]

if i can just bitinstant for $3.95  instead of loseing on every otc transaction to build rep, wheres the bonus and value of the otc rating?

If you are happy with commercial offerings and don't need to do any over-the-counter (OTC) trading, then a good OTC trust history doesn't help or hurt you.

Now let's say you happened to notice that a person nearby to you is selling coins at the spot rates.  But that person has no trust history.  Is that person scheming to get you to send first and then run off with the cash?   If the person has a good trust history, you can know that's probably not going to happen.

This especially comes into play when shipping something.  Sure the tracking code can show that a package was delivered, but when the recipient claims it was an empty box, the sender can't prove it wasn't sent that way and the recipient can't prove it was truly received that way.  Because of this risk, the shipper might not even want to risk getting an unwarranted negative from a shady buyer and instead the shipper might simply reject any buyer that doesn't have a good trust history.  So essentially, building a WoT history now gives more opportunity down the road.

It all matters if you think you'll be trading with parties you haven't already transacted with and who you might not have any other reason to trust.

[MPOE-PR]

How the WoT works.

[Stephen Gornick]

How the WoT works.

Heh, I had seen that thread but somehow hadn't seen that post.

That makes a good point about how Pirate had a fantastic trust history in the WoT.  So if you look at the types of ratings given they include a bunch of PayPal transactions.  So if you were to do a PayPal transaction with him you probably would have been fine.  Now loaning money to him, or depositing it for impossible gains?   Well, the WoT trust history doesn't replace using your head.

[Lurk]

wow...i read that thread and what i thought wot and otc are is a little different.   as much as people like to see that you are rated i thought there was way more accountability and was a great way to tell if someone is trustworthy.

im not bashing the system or anything but it really doesnt mean anything in the big scheme of things huh?

 the more i thought about raising my rating today, the more i thought that buying items from others or lending btc instead of borrowing is probably the better route.

  still a little disappointed that what i assumed was a great way to determine if someone is going to scam you or not,  or a great way to show im trustworthy and get a loan  really doesnt hold the value i thought it did.

  scammers are going to scam regardless and my question about buying a rating was basically confirmed.

  i know as of right now there is no better system  but just shocked so many people put so much faith and emphasis on having a good rating.  im going to work on raising my rating anyway but just a little bummed out it can easily be faked or bought.

  thanks again for the replies

[MPOE-PR]

How the WoT works.

Heh, I had seen that thread but somehow hadn't seen that post.

That makes a good point about how Pirate had a fantastic trust history in the WoT.  So if you look at the types of ratings given they include a bunch of PayPal transactions.  So if you were to do a PayPal transaction with him you probably would have been fine.  Now loaning money to him, or depositing it for impossible gains?   Well, the WoT trust history doesn't replace using your head.

That's exactly correct.

wow...i read that thread and what i thought wot and otc are is a little different.   as much as people like to see that you are rated i thought there was way more accountability and was a great way to tell if someone is trustworthy.

im not bashing the system or anything but it really doesnt mean anything in the big scheme of things huh?

 the more i thought about raising my rating today, the more i thought that buying items from others or lending btc instead of borrowing is probably the better route.

  still a little disappointed that what i assumed was a great way to determine if someone is going to scam you or not,  or a great way to show im trustworthy and get a loan  really doesnt hold the value i thought it did.

  scammers are going to scam regardless and my question about buying a rating was basically confirmed.

  i know as of right now there is no better system  but just shocked so many people put so much faith and emphasis on having a good rating.  im going to work on raising my rating anyway but just a little bummed out it can easily be faked or bought.

  thanks again for the replies

It is a great way, once you know how to use it.

[fbastage]

   so is a bitcoin-otc rating basically bought?

It shouldn't be and I encourage more people to speak out against buying ratings and frivolous trades just to raise ratings.  While OTC doesn't seem to say anything directly about this, it pretty clearly violates the spirit of the Web Of Trust (WOT) and it's ability to represent trustworthiness.

[Andrew Vorobyov]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=118616.0

[TheButterZone]

 ok.... so the fees on these prepaid cards are anywhere from $5.00 to $6.00  most people on otc i found want to pay you less than the actual face value of the card in bitcoins.  so your losing your $5.00 fee for purchasing the card and you are also losing out on being paid less than face value.

Very little to do with "buying ratings".

Nobody wants to pay face value for a prepaid card with any currency, unless they need it NOW, and that card is at a POS (either sold by the provider, or a brick and mortar store that has racks of these cards). Prepaid cards can be found on eBay and Amazon and card exchange sites for below face value. There is no point in selling prepaid cards for BTC unless you are going to beat the prices of commercial sellers/resellers, and don't mind taking the loss to get an eventually deflationary currency instead of inflationary fiat.