Bitcoin scams

[SEC agent]

Now I'm starting to think you are being intentionally dense. The moderator's explicitly state in that disclaimer (you can call it what you want, but it is a disclaimer) that they do not remove scams from the forum (and "theymos" has reiterated that fact on multiple occasions).  That means they allow them to operate openly. That makes them conspirators in the eyes of the law. If I allow people to deal drugs out of my house, then I can be arrested too.

[jasinlee]

So you work at the SEC prove it. Pics of your office building? Your office? Stationary?

[Richy_T]

"Complaining on the internet" has for too long been subject to the highs and lows of the fascistic capitalist system. It is high time it was nationalized and I, for one, applaud sec agent's initiative.

[AwkwardSituation]

Bitcoins are (currently) valuable, and newbies are gullible, so the two combine to make a lucrative environment to steal, scam, rip off, trick, conjole, and jack bitcoins from fools.

I think the bitcoin market uses the Darwin principal for moderating it's user base.  The fools lose coins, either leave, or get savvy.  In either case, it's not just btc that's all caltrops and punji stick traps.

[Beirdo]

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

The first line in the disclaimer shows how complicit the moderator's are in the criminal acts performed on this forum. The amount of mental gymnastics it takes to ignore this fact is, quite frankly, amazing.

In the eyes of the law, this makes them conspirators. Not to mention this forum could face penalties under the RICO act for protecting and promoting the criminals that fill the lending and securities forum.

Hardly.  First off, this forum isn't under USA jurisdiction, necessarily.  The site's domain is registered in Canada, and can you even prove where the server is located?  If not, you are talking out of yer butt.  A "central authority" for something that was designed to be decentralized and international intentionally... would require the cooperation of the entire community, and I'm pretty sure a large portion of it is not in the USA at all, neither the scammer, nor the victim.

And you are missing the blatantly obvious:  the moderators are not removing *likely* scams.  That says nothing about *known* scams, which others have already stated are ruthlessly removed.  And, if you truly are an SEC agent (which I doubt), you are partially to blame for the scams that are propagated on the US stock market and bond markets daily.  It is your job to root them out, and yet they happened.  So maybe you should face penalties under the RICO Act yourself.

Dangling US law over the heads of all is precisely why the desire and need for bitcoin came to be and is so strong.  We want our resources controlled by us, and to be able to take the risks WE are OK with taking, not to be told by Big Brother that we must go through their system, and have them scam us instead.

Please go back under your bridge, troll.

[fcmatt]

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

The first line in the disclaimer shows how complicit the moderator's are in the criminal acts performed on this forum. The amount of mental gymnastics it takes to ignore this fact is, quite frankly, amazing.

In the eyes of the law, this makes them conspirators. Not to mention this forum could face penalties under the RICO act for protecting and promoting the criminals that fill the lending and securities forum.

Hardly.  First off, this forum isn't under USA jurisdiction, necessarily.  The site's domain is registered in Canada, and can you even prove where the server is located?  If not, you are talking out of yer butt.  A "central authority" for something that was designed to be decentralized and international intentionally... would require the cooperation of the entire community, and I'm pretty sure a large portion of it is not in the USA at all, neither the scammer, nor the victim.

And you are missing the blatantly obvious:  the moderators are not removing *likely* scams.  That says nothing about *known* scams, which others have already stated are ruthlessly removed.  And, if you truly are an SEC agent (which I doubt), you are partially to blame for the scams that are propagated on the US stock market and bond markets daily.  It is your job to root them out, and yet they happened.  So maybe you should face penalties under the RICO Act yourself.

Dangling US law over the heads of all is precisely why the desire and need for bitcoin came to be and is so strong.  We want our resources controlled by us, and to be able to take the risks WE are OK with taking, not to be told by Big Brother that we must go through their system, and have them scam us instead.

Please go back under your bridge, troll.

a simple traceroute to the IP address that this domain resolves to shows that the server is sitting in Dallas, TX area....
so it is operating in the good old US of A.

[dieteralex]

In my oppinion if you get scammed, its completely your own fault. i mean I'm very new to bitcoins, but isnt the first rule for trading with bitcoins to only interact with people you trust?
So this forum should build a web of trust, or rate offers, so that new users can tell if someone is trustworthy or not.
and please guys get it: he is NOT some kind of Agent

[Bitcoin Oz]

The fact people belive that guy is an SEC agent is why there is a warning on the forum 

[Raoul Duke]

The fact people belive that guy is an SEC agent is why there is a warning on the forum 

^^This...

[JoelKatz]

In my oppinion if you get scammed, its completely your own fault. i mean I'm very new to bitcoins, but isnt the first rule for trading with bitcoins to only interact with people you trust? So this forum should build a web of trust, or rate offers, so that new users can tell if someone is trustworthy or not.

That just doesn't work. I strongly suspect you actually don't believe it and are just trying to make some kind of rhetorical point. But if you honestly don't understand why, you are very, very new.

The problem is that there is no reliable way to tell who to trust, especially when dishonest people can create reams of shills. Also, scams like Ponzi schemes pay out reliably until the one day they collapse. So even a history of on-schedule generous payments verified by the most reliable people doesn't mean you can trust someone.

Also, while you certainly can blame the victim of a scam for falling for the scam, it's important to point out that this in no way reduces the blame that justly falls on the perpetrator of the scam.

[22bones]

Why are people even attempting to invest bitcoins anyway?  Isn't it a deflationary currency?  "Be your own bank?"

SEC Agent, your username itself is a bit of fakery.  Maybe we shouldn't allow disingenuous usernames on this board.

[dieteralex]

In my oppinion if you get scammed, its completely your own fault. i mean I'm very new to bitcoins, but isnt the first rule for trading with bitcoins to only interact with people you trust? So this forum should build a web of trust, or rate offers, so that new users can tell if someone is trustworthy or not.

That just doesn't work. I strongly suspect you actually don't believe it and are just trying to make some kind of rhetorical point. But if you honestly don't understand why, you are very, very new.

The problem is that there is no reliable way to tell who to trust, especially when dishonest people can create reams of shills. Also, scams like Ponzi schemes pay out reliably until the one day they collapse. So even a history of on-schedule generous payments verified by the most reliable people doesn't mean you can trust someone.

Also, while you certainly can blame the victim of a scam for falling for the scam, it's important to point out that this in no way reduces the blame that justly falls on the perpetrator of the scam.

it actually is possible to create a web of trust( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_of_trust) or just integrate a rating system as seen on ebay or amazon, which would create an at least much safer envoirement.
I as a Newbie to this community have no clue who of the people around here is trustworthy, i can just rely on my common sense and that definitly tells me not to invest my money in ponzi schemes or trade money with total strangers on devious conditions.

[Beirdo]

Why are people even attempting to invest bitcoins anyway?  Isn't it a deflationary currency?  "Be your own bank?"

Isn't most of the deflationary part before the first halving?  I would expect, if anything, to see it become essentially inflationary against fiat currency increasingly as the supply of new BTC starts to slow.  Supply and demand and all that...  We are investing now on the expectation that they will be harder to come by, and thus their value increase over time.  Or at least that's what my brain says.

[nobbynobbynoob]

Bitcoin isn't deflationary in the purest sense, since the supply will continue to rise slowly toward the BTC21 million cap, but in a relative sense, with (hopefully!) the BTC-trading economy expanding wildly and the rate of issue of new BTC slowing, one could call that deflationary, especially against fiat bankster paper that Bernanke and Co. are printing crazily.

[Beirdo]

a simple traceroute to the IP address that this domain resolves to shows that the server is sitting in Dallas, TX area....
so it is operating in the good old US of A.

Yes, and if it became an issue, I'm sure it could be migrated in a matter of hours to a server somewhere else.  Somewhere out of the reach of this Big Brother, and into the reach of another.  Either way, there's no lasting jurisdiction, especially with the registrar being out of the USA.

[SEC agent]

Keep thinking that the us governments reach doesn't exceed us soil.  Even if you ignore the fact that our government works very closely with government agencies in foreign countries, you still have to account for extradition laws. If the government wants you, they will get you eventually. You cant hide in Ecuador or some other non extradition country forever, even assange will be caught eventually and brought to justice. Criminals and the organizations that support them can only escape the governments reach for so long.

Welcome to global government.

[jasinlee]

Welcome to global government.

And anyone that would use that statement would not have passed the psych evaluation that is required to get any sort of clearance within a government agency. Hello Puppet.

[Severian]

Amount of suspicious activities here is just amazing. Complete unknown persons are allowed to freely post and attract visitors to their websites.

May I take this opportunity to point out the ASIC miner ad in your sig?

[Bitcoin Oz]

a simple traceroute to the IP address that this domain resolves to shows that the server is sitting in Dallas, TX area....
so it is operating in the good old US of A.

Yes, and if it became an issue, I'm sure it could be migrated in a matter of hours to a server somewhere else.  Somewhere out of the reach of this Big Brother, and into the reach of another.  Either way, there's no lasting jurisdiction, especially with the registrar being out of the USA.

He already has people who listed securities based in the US. It doesnt matter where on earth he goes at this point.

[SEC agent]

You are naive if you believe that governments don't routinely cooperate with each other.

Of course you are gullible enough to believe that this forum doesn't actively promote and protect criminals, so I'll throw you a bone.

Google "United Nations" and educate yourself. Hell, google "European Union" while your at it. Then come back and tell me that governments don't cooperate in a major way. Since we have a global economy (and since every nations politics affect politics on a global scale) the nations of the world are forced to work together to solve problems internationaly.

Are you really that unaware of the world around you?