The future of Bitcoin is illegal

[Severian]

This is just a profit opportunity...

Newsflash: Profit motive causes trade. I'm not sure what you're arguing anymore. Or why.

[sturle]

The number of coins in existence is fixed. But that doesn't mean that the supply is fixed. Supply refers to the amount of coins that sellers are willing to part with at a given price.  If it were illegal to transact with or sell bitcoins, I don't see many current holders simply deleting their wallets.  But they might be less willing to sell their coins if doing so exposed them to the risk of criminal sanctions.

This is pure fantasy.  Laws aren't passed in a day.  If it looks like Bitcoin will become illegal in an important country, the large holders will sell at once.  Get their money out while it is possible without criminalizing themselves.  I will.  No doubt about that.  And I'll try to be the first to sell, because the value will soon fall lower than most people here can remember.

The prohibition of illicit drugs does relatively little to deter users

Eh?  Yes, it does.  Not a little, it does a lot to deter users.  It has a large impact.  Drunk drivers was a problem as well before driving while drunk was criminalized.

but it does make sellers demand a fairly substantial risk premium.

So you think the future of bitcoin is in taking risk premium for selling them?  Why not just use a legal payment method, and drop the risk premium?

[becoin]

I'm not sure what you're arguing anymore. Or why.

Now I'm not sure what did you mean by saying:

A growing number of goldbugs are parting with their metal for bitcoins.

[Severian]

Now I'm not sure what did you mean by saying:
A growing number of goldbugs are parting with their metal for bitcoins.

It's a simple declarative statement backed up by a mere glance at material reality.

[bg002h]

Now I'm not sure what did you mean by saying:

A growing number of goldbugs are parting with their metal for bitcoins.

It's a simple declarative statement backed up by a mere glance at material reality.

ahh...yes, now I see.  All has become clear...(witw?)

[becoin]

It's a simple declarative statement backed up by a mere glance at material reality.

So... what reality is more material: paperbugs, cryptobugs, or goldbugs?

[bg002h]

It's a simple declarative statement backed up by a mere glance at material reality.

So... what reality is more material: paperbugs, cryptobugs, or goldbugs?

I have your answer: yes.

[Roger_Murdock]

The number of coins in existence is fixed. But that doesn't mean that the supply is fixed. Supply refers to the amount of coins that sellers are willing to part with at a given price.  If it were illegal to transact with or sell bitcoins, I don't see many current holders simply deleting their wallets.  But they might be less willing to sell their coins if doing so exposed them to the risk of criminal sanctions.

This is pure fantasy.  Laws aren't passed in a day.  If it looks like Bitcoin will become illegal in an important country, the large holders will sell at once.  Get their money out while it is possible without criminalizing themselves.  I will.  No doubt about that.  And I'll try to be the first to sell, because the value will soon fall lower than most people here can remember.

Yeah, that's certainly possible.  But for every sale, there's a buyer.  And those new buyers will become the potential sellers who will determine the supply of bitcoins going forward.

The prohibition of illicit drugs does relatively little to deter users.

Eh?  Yes, it does.  Not a little, it does a lot to deter users.  It has a large impact.  Drunk drivers was a problem as well before driving while drunk was criminalized.

Well, I suppose it deters some people.  *cough, cough*  But my larger point was that the deterrent effect of prohibition is much MORE pronounced on the supply side.  

but it does make sellers demand a fairly substantial risk premium.

So you think the future of bitcoin is in taking risk premium for selling them?  Why not just use a legal payment method, and drop the risk premium?

No, I think the future of Bitcoin is to become the world's dominant currency.  Why not use legal fiat instead? Because it's being rapidly debased, because it's a terrible store of value, because it makes it difficult for you to preserve your financial privacy, because online payments require excessive fees, because your accounts can be frozen at the whim of a tyrannical government, because you're helping to prop up a corrupt and unsustainable system, etc.  

[FLHippy]

becoin said something...

Holy shit, I was trying to kill that damn bug. good job.

[bg002h]

becoin said something...

Holy shit, I was trying to kill that damn bug. good job.

I fell for it too!

[Severian]

So... what reality is more material: paperbugs, cryptobugs, or goldbugs?

Goldbugs obviously, and a growing number are taking a position in Bitcoin.

Why is this hard for some to accept?

[bg002h]

So... what reality is more material: paperbugs, cryptobugs, or goldbugs?

Goldbugs obviously, and a growing number are taking a position in Bitcoin.

Why is this hard for some to accept?

I don't think it's an issue of acceptance...it's an issue of fact vs. opinion...

[mobile4ever]

Holy shit, I was trying to kill that damn bug. good job.

They are multiplying ‼

[Severian]

I don't think it's an issue of acceptance...it's an issue of fact vs. opinion...

When opinion goes against fact, that's an acceptance issue. 

[bg002h]

I don't think it's an issue of acceptance...it's an issue of fact vs. opinion...

When opinion goes against fact, that's an acceptance issue.  

typically one couples data with claims of fact...
(a link to a wiki site is not my idea of high quality data, just sayin...)

[Severian]

(a link to a wiki site is not my idea of high quality data, just sayin...)

That's what we have now. That list has been steadily growing for the past year.

Accept it or not.

[CharlieContent]

So you buy in to Bitcoin for a large sum of money turning it into $100,000 because you appreciated the concept that its best use is for illegal activity and you are now concerned because we are straying away from its best destiny? That’s what it sounds like you are preaching. I agree with Holliday.

This is utter bullshit. I bought into Bitcoin with a very small amount of money, by the time I finished buying I was up to $1000, still a small amount of money. I dunno if you live in your parent's basement or what, but for grown ups $1000 isn't usually that much.

The investment became worth a comparatively large amount of money, not because I appreciated the concept that its best use is for illegal activity, but because I got really lucky.

I'm not preaching anything, I'm not talking about the "best destiny" of Bitcoin.

You've just pulled all that out of your ass.

I think that you might be a little dense. You haven't debated me at all, you've just called me a liar about a fact I mentioned in the OP which has no consequence to the debate, and accused me of being a troll. Here's a newsflash for you: sometimes people have contrary opinions to the ones that you have. Sometimes they even say them out loud. I am sorry you can't deal with that and you take it as a personal affront, and an insult to everything that you hold dear. Just because you are a baby doesn't make me a troll.

I'm also sorry you can't accept the fact that I made some cash with Bitcoins. I didn't mention it to boast, I just mentioned it to say that I have had some good results with Bitcoins, I am on the side of Bitcoins, and I still have some skin in the game. Ironically it was to stop people from thinking that I was trying to attack Bitcoin. To be honest I thought it would be a miniscule amount compared to what most people here have probably made, but from your jealous attacks I guess not.

You made a lot of bullshit claims, told me to do my research about them when I questioned them, I did my research and came back to tell you that I couldn't find a scrap of truth in the bullshit you are spewing, and yet again I get a personal attack. I think I can reasonably walk away thinking you are probably an idiot.

[Jutarul]

.... best use is for illegal activity and you are now concerned because we are straying away from its best destiny?

I'm not preaching anything, I'm not talking about the "best destiny" of Bitcoin.

Gentlemen, whatever the particular destiny of bitcoin is we don't know. But I predict for each destiny there will be a cryptocurrency to fullfill the need. The cat is out of the bag, let's embrace it.

A strong regulation of bitcoin doesn't mean it's growth potential goes down - actually it's likely to be the opposite. In any event, the two key properties of bitcoin will always persist as long the majority of the hashing power is not in the hands of a large entity: 1) fixed money supply 2) fungibility

However, what we may lose on the way is anonymity, which is a problem for illegal businesses. I suspect that we will see other cryptocurrencies or services allowing the conversion of non-anonymous to anonymous money. If the OP feels that should be something worth pursuing I propose he should invest a fraction of that $100,000 accordingly.

As far as the cash-out strategy of the OP goes, I am pleased to hear that his early risk taking got rewarded and he can enjoy his lucky position (chance to be a super-early adopter). I hope we'll all be in the same position a few years from now.

[CharlieContent]

Whatever you say ridiculous troll, enjoy that $100 grand.

Thanks. It's currently tied up as part of a rental property of mine. I'll enjoy it even more when I cash out the 5000 or so coins I still hold, hopefully for a fair bit more than $100k.

[mobile4ever]

I didn't mention it to boast, I just mentioned it to say that I have had some good results with Bitcoins, I am on the side of Bitcoins, and I still have some skin in the game.

I can accept that. But remember, some are already paying rent with it -directly.