Magicaldice.com(Provably fair or not..?)Warning for dicers

[Bluewaffle]

It should be pretty easy to figure out at what nonce the server seed was changed (just work backwards until the bets doen't verify). And if the site has the original server seed then the bets before that nonce could be verified, which would make sure that the server seed change wasn't hiding unfair bets (that's assuming that unibtc was betting in a reasonably difficult to predict manner) and that it was just a silly mistake  =)


Or even if the site doesn't have the original server seed (which is a concerning red flag), it would still make sense to verify as many of the last bets as possible using the latest server seed and check if a losing streak fell under the latest server seed. If the losing streak happened to fall on unverifiable period, that would be another red flag.


(Although to be honest, I suspect the whole thing is just a silly mistake but the whole point of provably fair is that we can verify not trust)

none of the bets verify

[Bluewaffle]

this thread right here is what makes me skeptical of online gambling sites. manipulating rolls or seeds period is WRONG. if you feel someone is cheating your site you need to address that issue with that user. you dont go fucking with shit trying to prove a point. sure you admitted your actions were wrong and apologized to the user for messing with his shit. BIG DEAL IMO. the actions prove to the rest of us that maybe this shit happens more than we know and we are losing not  just because of bad luck but more because of corruption.

any of you ever notice now n then your rolls start lagging real bad? or other little things?

even bigger a deal when the "original" seed was never found or seen

[RHavar]

none of the bets verify

If the server seed was changed at a particular nonce, the bets after that nonce should all verify using the latest server seed. If this set includes the losing streak, and unibtc was playing pretty unpredictably it's unlikely any foul play was involved.

[Stars]

none of the bets verify

If the server seed was changed at a particular nonce, the bets after that nonce should all verify using the latest server seed. If this set includes the losing streak, and unibtc was playing pretty unpredictably it's unlikely any foul play was involved.

After his last big session when he withdrew 11 BTC, that's when we changed the server seed. He didn't bet once with this seed though.

Right and that IS how Unibtc plays. He changes from hi to lo randomly, also changes the size of the bets randomly too. So I hope that proves it was an honest and stupid mistake, that won't happen again. Regardless, Unibtc is continuing to play on our website after all of this so that definitely proves to us that he is the real deal and we were just being way too paranoid. 

[yahoo62278]

none of the bets verify

If the server seed was changed at a particular nonce, the bets after that nonce should all verify using the latest server seed. If this set includes the losing streak, and unibtc was playing pretty unpredictably it's unlikely any foul play was involved.

After his last big session when he withdrew 11 BTC, that's when we changed the server seed. He didn't bet once with this seed though.

Right and that IS how Unibtc plays. He changes from hi to lo randomly, also changes the size of the bets randomly too. So I hope that proves it was an honest and stupid mistake, that won't happen again. Regardless, Unibtc is continuing to play on our website after all of this so that definitely proves to us that he is the real deal and we were just being way too paranoid. 

from reading unibtc earlier posts in this thread it seems like hes not very satisfied with your moderation staff either

[shulio]

none of the bets verify

If the server seed was changed at a particular nonce, the bets after that nonce should all verify using the latest server seed. If this set includes the losing streak, and unibtc was playing pretty unpredictably it's unlikely any foul play was involved.

After his last big session when he withdrew 11 BTC, that's when we changed the server seed. He didn't bet once with this seed though.

Right and that IS how Unibtc plays. He changes from hi to lo randomly, also changes the size of the bets randomly too. So I hope that proves it was an honest and stupid mistake, that won't happen again. Regardless, Unibtc is continuing to play on our website after all of this so that definitely proves to us that he is the real deal and we were just being way too paranoid. 

He is a real deal, his name is famous in PD, MP and alot of other site too. Just because he keeps winning then this is a scary jokes from you to change the seed, this is like you are trying to make him lose and a red flag for your site. This means you dont want winner at your site?

[RHavar]

After his last big session when he withdrew 11 BTC, that's when we changed the server seed. He didn't bet once with this seed though.

From the posts, it sounds like he ended his session in a bit of a losing spree? Is the server seed available from this period of time, as if so it should allow the verification of the whole session and put the matter to rest

[Stars]

none of the bets verify

If the server seed was changed at a particular nonce, the bets after that nonce should all verify using the latest server seed. If this set includes the losing streak, and unibtc was playing pretty unpredictably it's unlikely any foul play was involved.

After his last big session when he withdrew 11 BTC, that's when we changed the server seed. He didn't bet once with this seed though.

Right and that IS how Unibtc plays. He changes from hi to lo randomly, also changes the size of the bets randomly too. So I hope that proves it was an honest and stupid mistake, that won't happen again. Regardless, Unibtc is continuing to play on our website after all of this so that definitely proves to us that he is the real deal and we were just being way too paranoid. 

He is a real deal, his name is famous in PD, MP and alot of other site too. Just because he keeps winning then this is a scary jokes from you to change the seed, this is like you are trying to make him lose and a red flag for your site. This means you dont want winner at your site?

We changed it because we felt like our dev possibly messed up and leaked the server seed when the same roll incident happened. What we should have done is just ask him to change it himself so he knows it is 100% random and he's not given a seed which gives him more high or low numbers (Which wouldn't make sense anyway since he has no pattern, he bets hi/lo randomly)

Unibtc isn't happy with our mod "BTC" because BTC watched Uni win over and over and change from hi to lo perfectly as well as know when to bet higher and win. Which I can't do anything about, everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

As for Uni ending his session in a losing spree, That wasn't the case at all. The whole reason we changed it after that session was because he was constantly winning.

[Bluewaffle]

none of the bets verify

If the server seed was changed at a particular nonce, the bets after that nonce should all verify using the latest server seed. If this set includes the losing streak, and unibtc was playing pretty unpredictably it's unlikely any foul play was involved.

the seed is no where to be found

[ndnh]

none of the bets verify

If the server seed was changed at a particular nonce, the bets after that nonce should all verify using the latest server seed. If this set includes the losing streak, and unibtc was playing pretty unpredictably it's unlikely any foul play was involved.

I don't think there was any foul play involved, but here are some things that is a little suspcious:
1. The previous server seed is unknown. and so bets cannot be verified.
2. It is possible to change the seed to something that would statistically result in more losses to unibtc. Like rolls in the 48-52 range.


On the other hand, if PD had changed the server seed of hufflepuff/robinhood they wouldn't have lost a few hundred bitcoins.

[Bluewaffle]

none of the bets verify

If the server seed was changed at a particular nonce, the bets after that nonce should all verify using the latest server seed. If this set includes the losing streak, and unibtc was playing pretty unpredictably it's unlikely any foul play was involved.

After his last big session when he withdrew 11 BTC, that's when we changed the server seed. He didn't bet once with this seed though.

Right and that IS how Unibtc plays. He changes from hi to lo randomly, also changes the size of the bets randomly too. So I hope that proves it was an honest and stupid mistake, that won't happen again. Regardless, Unibtc is continuing to play on our website after all of this so that definitely proves to us that he is the real deal and we were just being way too paranoid. 

He is a real deal, his name is famous in PD, MP and alot of other site too. Just because he keeps winning then this is a scary jokes from you to change the seed, this is like you are trying to make him lose and a red flag for your site. This means you dont want winner at your site?

winning too much dont fly i guess....lol

[Bluewaffle]

Unibtc isn't happy with our mod "BTC" because BTC watched Uni win over and over and change from hi to lo perfectly as well as know when to bet higher and win. Which I can't do anything about, everybody is entitled to their own opinion.



lmao that doesnt even make sense .......uni isnt happy with BTC rgw mod because he was watching him win....lol.....pretty sure what was said by uni himself was hes was unhappy with him due to remarks like "uni is done"  ...lol

[Stars]

none of the bets verify

If the server seed was changed at a particular nonce, the bets after that nonce should all verify using the latest server seed. If this set includes the losing streak, and unibtc was playing pretty unpredictably it's unlikely any foul play was involved.

I don't think there was any foul play involved, but here are some things that is a little suspcious:
1. The previous server seed is unknown. and so bets cannot be verified.
2. It is possible to change the seed to something that would statistically result in more losses to unibtc. Like rolls in the 48-52 range.

Yeah, the server seed is unknown because our main dev is away on holiday. Usually the main dev is making sure everything is being done properly. Our second dev changed the server seed without keeping a backup of it. Which was extremely stupid, I agree. So Uni can't verify old rolls but that was the seed he won 54 BTC with.

Ok you made a good point with changing the rolls in the 48-52 range but I don't know what else to say other than that didn't happen. There was honestly nothing malicious intended, we acted on impulse and changed his server seed quickly without giving it much thought and what the consequences would be. Like I said though, we changed the seed AFTER he withdrew the 11 BTC (that was his last big session he played). He didn't play once with the changed seed.

[RHavar]

We changed it because we felt like our dev possibly messed up and leaked the server seed when the same roll incident happened. What we should have done is just ask him to change it himself so he knows it is 100% random and he's not given a seed which gives him more high or low numbers
(Which wouldn't make sense anyway since he has no pattern, he bets hi/lo randomly)

The issue isn't you changed the server seed, that's not a problem at all. But if you do change the server seed you should do three things:

a) Show the previous server seed  (so past bets can be verified)
b) Prove you've committed to a server seed (i.e. give the hash of it)
c) Allow the user to pick their own client seed.


So from the sounds of it, the lack of a) is the biggest issue here. Is there a way for unibtc to verify his previous rolls?  But changing a server seed while keeping the users client seed the same is another big mistake, but something separate and mitigated by his unpredictable playing.

Unibtc isn't happy with our mod "BTC" because BTC watched Uni win over and over and change from hi to lo perfectly as well as know when to bet higher and win. Which I can't do anything about, everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

Well, pretty much all lucky winners look like they're cheating. You might as well assume they the best, as if they're legitimate players you risk driving them away. And if they're cheating, they're really not going to care if a mod is being rude.

As for Uni ending his session in a losing spree, That wasn't the case at all. The whole reason we changed it after that session was because he was constantly winning.

Completely understandable. It sounds like that was the right thing to do, but steps a) b) and c) just need to be done as well

[RHavar]

So Uni can't verify old rolls but that was the seed he won 54 BTC with.

Well, that's completely unverifiable now.

--

I guess the conclusion of this thread is that the server seed that unibtc was playing with was lost, which means it was either done intentionally to hide the fact some of his rolls were rigged to win back the money ... or done as a silly mistake.


I'm going to assume it was the later, as I know I've made more than my fair share of mistakes and would like people to assume the best.

[Bluewaffle]

So Uni can't verify old rolls but that was the seed he won 54 BTC with.

Well, that's completely unverifiable now.

--

I guess the conclusion of this thread is that the server seed that unibtc was playing with was lost, which means it was either done intentionally to hide the fact some of his rolls were rigged to win back the money ... or done as a silly mistake.


I'm going to assume it was the later, as I know I've made more than my fair share of mistakes and would like people to assume the best.

thanks for helping with my thread and helping star to understand what exactly was so wrong with what happened cause seemed like he didnt quite understand the issue here regardless if he won n cashed out or not

[Esally]

I guess the conclusion of this thread is that the server seed that unibtc was playing with was lost, which means it was either done intentionally to hide the fact some of his rolls were rigged to win back the money ... or done as a silly mistake.

In reality it is quite easy to tell

magicdice please generate a chart of the player profits during the time before the server seed


If the end of the chart shows the player winning money then magicdice obviously wasn't cheating but would explain why magicdice was scared the player was cheating and justifies them changing the server seed incorrectly

If the end of the chart shows the player losing money then magicdice cheated the player with fake rolls and covered their tracks by losing the server seed. They would have had no reason to be scared the player was cheating and need to change the server seed

[Stars]

So Uni can't verify old rolls but that was the seed he won 54 BTC with.

Well, that's completely unverifiable now.

--

I guess the conclusion of this thread is that the server seed that unibtc was playing with was lost, which means it was either done intentionally to hide the fact some of his rolls were rigged to win back the money ... or done as a silly mistake.


I'm going to assume it was the later, as I know I've made more than my fair share of mistakes and would like people to assume the best.

thanks for helping with my thread and helping star to understand what exactly was so wrong with what happened cause seemed like he didnt quite understand the issue here regardless if he won n cashed out or not

Yeah I definitely understand what we did was wrong and I can promise nothing like this will ever happen again. We will never ever act on impulse. If we want to make any update/changes to the website we'll for sure talk about it for a few hours as well as message people such as Nico who have a much bigger understanding on what not to do when it comes to owning a dice website.

[Bluewaffle]

yeah i should have doog from just dice stop in and he can let you know really how big of a deal it was when he had to reset the server seed and what he did to make sure the EVERYONE new that they werent using the same seed...

[dooglus]

I know dooglus had been known to look ahead from time to time but stopped when he accidentally gave up information to a better.

I don't think I ever accidentally leaked any information. One time I told a player that I had looked ahead while he was playing at very low chance of winning, so see when he was due to hit. And he freaked out on me. He told me that just by knowing his future I was changing the future, via quantum effects. So I promised I wouldn't do it any more.

Not looking makes it much easier to be in the chat. Sometimes people on long losing streaks try "fishing" for information from me. "I'm bound to hit soon, right doog?" - if I knew the answer to that question it would be difficult to know how to answer. It becomes a game of poker - do I bluff, double-bluff? And so I don't know - then I can't accidentally leak information.

On the other hand, if PD had changed the server seed of hufflepuff/robinhood they wouldn't have lost a few hundred bitcoins.

I don't think so. HufflePuff had a way of discovering his server seed. If PD had changed it, he would have just made a new account and continued cheating on that one.

yeah i should have doog from just dice stop in and he can let you know really how big of a deal it was when he had to reset the server seed and what he did to make sure the EVERYONE new that they werent using the same seed...

I found the thread accidentally all by myself.

Us dice site operators all get a little 'spooked' sometimes, and I think it's good to err on the side of caution. It's not a good idea to accuse people of cheating though, as BTC seems to be doing in that chat log. If the player isn't cheating, there's a good chance you'll offend him enough that he stops playing and so never loses his winnings back to you. And if he is, he'll just deny it anyway.

I was once concerned that server seeds may have leaked, and so even though I thought it unlikely I couldn't take that chance, and decided to reset all the server seeds. I made the site act as if all the players had clicked the 'randomize' button, resetting the server seed, revealing the old one, resetting the nonce to 0, etc. And I made the chat tell everyone about the reset each time they logged in, and every 10 minutes thereafter. For a month or two. Until people begged me to remove the notice.