Declaration of Bitcoin Holdings

[polynesia]

A post from another thread, which I think merits a separate discussion.

On a related note, do you have to declare your bitcoin holdings in Schedule FA (Foreign Assets Declaration)?
According to a recent FAQ from IT dept, e-wallets need to be declared.

http://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/communications/circular/circular15_2015.pdf
please refer to pages 11-12

Q: A person maintains an e-wallet / virtual card account online on a website hosted in a foreign country, which was initially funded by income chargeable to tax in India on which tax has not been paid. Can a declaration be made in respect of e-wallet / virtual card?

A: The e-wallet/ virtual card account is similar to a bank account where inward and outward cash movement takes place from the account. Therefore, the valuation and declaration of an e-wallet account may be made as in the case of a bank account.

[aakashsangwan]

A post from another thread, which I think merits a separate discussion.

On a related note, do you have to declare your bitcoin holdings in Schedule FA (Foreign Assets Declaration)?
According to a recent FAQ from IT dept, e-wallets need to be declared.

http://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/communications/circular/circular15_2015.pdf
please refer to pages 11-12

Q: A person maintains an e-wallet / virtual card account online on a website hosted in a foreign country, which was initially funded by income chargeable to tax in India on which tax has not been paid. Can a declaration be made in respect of e-wallet / virtual card?

A: The e-wallet/ virtual card account is similar to a bank account where inward and outward cash movement takes place from the account. Therefore, the valuation and declaration of an e-wallet account may be made as in the case of a bank account.

So that means that now we have to maintain the record of all the wallets through which i earn free bitcoins through faucets and referral earnings. But same thing that i dont buy or sell Bitcoins, means their is no  cash transactions in this wallets.i use to collect the bitcoins through faucets and spend on buying personal goods.

[polynesia]

I am curious because
- If bitcoins (or to be exact - my private keys) are stored on my computer, how can they be classified as foreign assets?
- This declaration is more to do with undisclosed foreign assets / income. If I buy bitcoins with declared income, how would it fit into this.

[dashingriddler]

I am curious because
- If bitcoins (or to be exact - my private keys) are stored on my computer, how can they be classified as foreign assets?
- This declaration is more to do with undisclosed foreign assets / income. If I buy bitcoins with declared income, how would it fit into this.

I agree with both points.

[zencomp]

I am curious because
- If bitcoins (or to be exact - my private keys) are stored on my computer, how can they be classified as foreign assets?
- This declaration is more to do with undisclosed foreign assets / income. If I buy bitcoins with declared income, how would it fit into this.

But their is no clause about giving the stored Bitcoins in online wallets or on your computer as foreign assets, untill unless you dont deposit the amount and then buy from any other foreign country exchanges.

[newtocryptocurrency]

I think if you have bitcoin holdings, you have declare it every year until you sell it off.

Am I right?

[tech_solutions]

I am curious because
- If bitcoins (or to be exact - my private keys) are stored on my computer, how can they be classified as foreign assets?
- This declaration is more to do with undisclosed foreign assets / income. If I buy bitcoins with declared income, how would it fit into this.

But their is no clause about giving the stored Bitcoins in online wallets or on your computer as foreign assets, untill unless you dont deposit the amount and then buy from any other foreign country exchanges.

the bitcoins stored in you computer are not classified as foreign assets but which exchange are you going to use to do buying and selling that you have to show in foreign assets/ income. Even if you buy bitcoins with declared income,   it tells what from where you are buying if you are buying from local exchanges or local persons then i think their is no need to show that income under foreign assets.

[polynesia]

I think if you have bitcoin holdings, you have declare it every year until you sell it off.
Am I right?

That is one interpretation which I am afraid of, and don't think is right.
This provision can be easily used to harass the crypto-community in the future.

[newtocryptocurrency]

I think if you have bitcoin holdings, you have declare it every year until you sell it off.
Am I right?

That is one interpretation which I am afraid of, and don't think is right.
This provision can be easily used to harass the crypto-community in the future.

what do you mean by harass?

if you declare it like this every year what is the problem? you don't have to pay tax on your bitcoin holdings every year right? it's only the first year.

[aakashsangwan]

I think if you have bitcoin holdings, you have declare it every year until you sell it off.
Am I right?

That is one interpretation which I am afraid of, and don't think is right.
This provision can be easily used to harass the crypto-community in the future.

what do you mean by harass?

if you declare it like this every year what is the problem? you don't have to pay tax on your bitcoin holdings every year right? it's only the first year.

This you are telling only the peoples who buy one time and then show it in accounts but what about persons who are trading in bitcoins and who are collect bitcoins through faucets , referrals and signature campaign, then they have to show every year, like what you do in your day to day life business.

[polynesia]

I think if you have bitcoin holdings, you have declare it every year until you sell it off.
Am I right?

That is one interpretation which I am afraid of, and don't think is right.
This provision can be easily used to harass the crypto-community in the future.

what do you mean by harass?
if you declare it like this every year what is the problem? you don't have to pay tax on your bitcoin holdings every year right? it's only the first year.

They may decide
- Those who have declared may need further scrutiny
- If you miss declaring it in the first year, then you are in trouble.
- In case law changes (let us say bitcoin becomes illegal) then the government has a ready database.

[tech_solutions]

I think if you have bitcoin holdings, you have declare it every year until you sell it off.
Am I right?

That is one interpretation which I am afraid of, and don't think is right.
This provision can be easily used to harass the crypto-community in the future.

what do you mean by harass?
if you declare it like this every year what is the problem? you don't have to pay tax on your bitcoin holdings every year right? it's only the first year.

They may decide
- Those who have declared may need further scrutiny
- If you miss declaring it in the first year, then you are in trouble.
- In case law changes (let us say bitcoin becomes illegal) then the government has a ready database.

I think after seeing this reply i also agree with you that anything can happen in India, with such types of Politicians , who work for only money. I have seen that peoples who are paying taxes correctly are also harassed for bribe in india.

[polynesia]

There still needs to be a debate on whether bitcoin should be treated as a commodity or currency in India.
If it is treated as a commodity, then there should be no need for disclosure.

[newtocryptocurrency]

I think if you have bitcoin holdings, you have declare it every year until you sell it off.
Am I right?

That is one interpretation which I am afraid of, and don't think is right.
This provision can be easily used to harass the crypto-community in the future.

what do you mean by harass?
if you declare it like this every year what is the problem? you don't have to pay tax on your bitcoin holdings every year right? it's only the first year.

They may decide
- Those who have declared may need further scrutiny
- If you miss declaring it in the first year, then you are in trouble.
- In case law changes (let us say bitcoin becomes illegal) then the government has a ready database.

bitcoin becoming illegal can't really be retrospective right? if they actually ban bitcoins we should stop using them I guess. I don't suppose everyone who has traded with bitcoins will be in trouble because that was in the past.

[tech_solutions]

I think if you have bitcoin holdings, you have declare it every year until you sell it off.
Am I right?

That is one interpretation which I am afraid of, and don't think is right.
This provision can be easily used to harass the crypto-community in the future.

what do you mean by harass?
if you declare it like this every year what is the problem? you don't have to pay tax on your bitcoin holdings every year right? it's only the first year.

They may decide
- Those who have declared may need further scrutiny
- If you miss declaring it in the first year, then you are in trouble.
- In case law changes (let us say bitcoin becomes illegal) then the government has a ready database.

bitcoin becoming illegal can't really be retrospective right? if they actually ban bitcoins we should stop using them I guess. I don't suppose everyone who has traded with bitcoins will be in trouble because that was in the past.

Their is no past in Tax Law, when they impliment any law they go back for some years and start searching all records. Ya but it is now upto the government to take Bitcoins as what way in India.

[newtocryptocurrency]

I think if you have bitcoin holdings, you have declare it every year until you sell it off.
Am I right?

That is one interpretation which I am afraid of, and don't think is right.
This provision can be easily used to harass the crypto-community in the future.

what do you mean by harass?
if you declare it like this every year what is the problem? you don't have to pay tax on your bitcoin holdings every year right? it's only the first year.

They may decide
- Those who have declared may need further scrutiny
- If you miss declaring it in the first year, then you are in trouble.
- In case law changes (let us say bitcoin becomes illegal) then the government has a ready database.

bitcoin becoming illegal can't really be retrospective right? if they actually ban bitcoins we should stop using them I guess. I don't suppose everyone who has traded with bitcoins will be in trouble because that was in the past.

Their is no past in Tax Law, when they impliment any law they go back for some years and start searching all records. Ya but it is now upto the government to take Bitcoins as what way in India.

ok so what can they ban? possessing bitcoins or trading them for INR? if it is the former they might ask people to hand over all bitcoins. if it is the latter they might shut down exchanges?

I don't understand what you meant by "no past in tax law". you mean all tax laws passed are retrospective?

there seems to be a lot of lack of clarity regarding the whole legal scenario. it would be good if someone clarified this once and for all (all the possible outcomes of using bit coins and their likelihood).

[polynesia]

there seems to be a lot of lack of clarity regarding the whole legal scenario. it would be good if someone clarified this once and for all (all the possible outcomes of using bit coins and their likelihood).

And who better to do this than the government? 
This FAQ has raised more questions than it answered.

[newtocryptocurrency]

there seems to be a lot of lack of clarity regarding the whole legal scenario. it would be good if someone clarified this once and for all (all the possible outcomes of using bit coins and their likelihood).

And who better to do this than the government? 
This FAQ has raised more questions than it answered.

laws here being retrospective or not is a general question that is not quite specific to bticoins.

[aakashsangwan]

Their always  been loop holes in the law and after finding it government do some nonsense things and then problems starts, i am also expecting that government give more clarification about the topic what they started with"Declaration of Bitcoin Holdings."

[polynesia]

there seems to be a lot of lack of clarity regarding the whole legal scenario. it would be good if someone clarified this once and for all (all the possible outcomes of using bit coins and their likelihood).

And who better to do this than the government? 
This FAQ has raised more questions than it answered.

laws here being retrospective or not is a general question that is not quite specific to bticoins.

Nope, that is not the question which has been raised.
There are multiple others, relating to bitcoins in specific.
The government will look into it / issue clarifications, once bitcoin becomes widespread.