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Author Topic: Censorship on Bitcointalk  (Read 8944 times)
Maged
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October 19, 2012, 01:01:04 AM
 #61

...
I surprised nobody posted this, given that I explicitly said that people could say that I was the one who requested the ban...

I read it as you giving permission to Theymos to disclose it to Rarity, not to someone else to disclose it to other forum users.
I suppose. I never figured a thread would pop up.  Undecided

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October 19, 2012, 08:56:58 PM
 #62

It would be way cooler if the forum was decentralized and everyone could be a part of moderating the forum.
Things like reputation systems on all accounts (where other users can leave feedback behind about a user) would improve the forum I find.
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October 20, 2012, 05:29:37 PM
 #63

It would be way cooler if the forum was decentralized and everyone could be a part of moderating the forum.
Things like reputation systems on all accounts (where other users can leave feedback behind about a user) would improve the forum I find.

You sound like you're volunteering.   Cool

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October 22, 2012, 05:39:29 PM
 #64

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Meh.  It's a web site.  The owners have full dictatorial rights over whatever is posted here and don't have to answer to anyone for it.

Of course they do, like with the scammer tag the law has nothing to do with this, it's a matter of honor to maintain a forum with free speech when you claim to be doing so.

Quote
No, "we" cannot. I am not you and I do not agree with your assertion. It is quite misleading. If there was no reason or evidence to initiate the discussion, I would agree on a false premise. But this was not the case.

Of course you disagree, and you should not be criticized for defending yourself or a fellow poster from false accusations as you are doing with Rarity.  

Quote
No, "psychology" was not the subject, neither was regulated markets. The psychology of a con man was the subject. Just because the thread tittle have the psychology word, it does not mean the subject was about psychology. Moreover, lack of moderation is not absence of evidence.

The name Zhou Tong was in the title, you don't get to pretend it was not about him.  You are being dishonest and absurd, the discussion assumed his guilt and was examining his psychology.  Read the thread.

Quote
Irrelevant. The subject in discussion is Rarity unnecessary posts. Only because mlawrence was moderated, it does not mean Rarity did not made misleading statements.

The unnecessary posts in question were pointing out the need for moderation of death threats.  You can't find any real examples because they don't exist.

Quote
Your claim still remains false and with no evidence to support it.

A request for evidence is not a claim.

Quote
User Rarity was an obvious troll from the start. When discussing Bitcoin, they would replace Bitcoin with their imaginary centralized freezable currency and continue the discussion as if it was actually Bitcoin they were talking about. When faced with obvious questions about how their pretend currency was vastly different (mining isn't necessary, what happens when miners process blacklisted transactions, et cetera) than Bitcoin, they would simply evade and ignore, knowing an actual response would tear down their house of cards.

Another false accusation.  Rarity appears to have been talking about regulation of people using Bitcoin and repeatedly pointed out she would not regulate the currency itself in any way.  That all the criticisms of Rarity seem to be based on lies is not making a good case the ban was not crooked.

Quote
Let me counter all of your retarded conspiracy theories with a post of mine from the moderator forum way back from July, where I am suggesting the ban of Rarity.

Quote from: Blitz­ on July 27, 2012, 01:54:14 PM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=43081

Troll from SA, mentioned somewhere in the late pages of this thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3486823

Though it's really obvious anyway.

Let me get this straight, the only evidence you have of this accusation is something I have to pay $10 to see?  And you are calling me retarded for not believing your hidden evidence?  Why do you have no facts you can actually share with us?

Quote
Rarity, for trolling. All he's been doing is wasting everyone's time. He never listens to reason, even to the point where most of our regular trolls give up:
Quote from: MPOE-PR on October 10, 2012, 04:14:15 PM
I'm happy with this. Far as we're concerned the matter may rest.
Quote from: Rarity on October 10, 2012, 04:01:16 PM
Quote
I'm not going to keep responding to these ridiculous accusations based on rumors and assumptions.

Sounds like you just admitted to them all, just with the caveat that you were going to stop the lies and lies of omissions later if you got a sucker on the hook.  Sure you would have.  Sure!
He also went on to make a total mockery of the scammer tag system:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117590.0

It's to the point that I can only believe that he is doing this on purpose. Theymos, I know that you have a conflict of interest here because Rarity has been debating you regarding GLBSE, so feel free to let him know that I made this request. Also, if someone else could second this, that'd be great.

This is a clear admission Rarity was banned for criticizing Theymos.  Rarity made that post in response to Theymos admitting he did not reveal everything in his sale post, and claiming that he would have done so later in the sale.  Why the hell should an unbiased observer take Theymos at his word on that?  The only evidence of Rarity "not seeing reason" is not believing Theymos?  Who wanted GLBSE to remain an illegal market?  Who is now doing nothing but sniping from the sidelines while Nefario sends out refunds?

And why is Rarity making a mockery of the scammer tag system by complaining that a written contract on these forums was broken?  It seems more a mockery that Dank was allowed to get away with it and continues to solicit donations towards his music as if he were capable of playing any.

And if "mocking the scammer tag system" is worthy of banning, do you intend to ban dank for turning the thread about his deceptive breach of contract into a discussion of how illegal drugs cure cancer which is caused by a weak soul?

Of course not, you are just making a weak excuse for being caught red handed trying to shut down a critic of the administrator. 

Quote
Normally, if that's all a person did trolling wise, that'd be alright. However, this has been a pattern for Rarity and this forum has really just seen enough. Making that thread that I mentioned really was what broke the camel's back for me. Prior to that, Rarity was only being destructive to meaningful conversation in a few threads, but making that thread broke the containment.

And yet when asked to share any evidence of trolling, all you can do is point to some offsite forum behind a paywall?

Quote
What a ridiculous thread. So much bother over a 7 day ban. I’ve banned myself from this forum for a week or more at a time for my own sanity.

Moderators, was it a 7 day ban?  I haven't seen Rarity logged in or posting since.
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October 22, 2012, 07:02:49 PM
 #65

Most of the recent SA goons, probably due to a lack of actual technical skills and intelligence, are spending more effort trolling lately than actually finding and exposing scammers, so they have to focus instead on criticizing theymos. The better SA goons that actually do their own research and discovery have just accepted Bitcoin for what it is and moved on, or like me, are sometimes finding active scammers. The only ones still left focusing on trolling are actively trolling in bands. Make no mistake, the OP is just another goon trying to rile up a posse for a witchunt.

I love SA, been a member there for over a decade, but the Bitcoin thread there is full of a bunch of teenagers or unemployed twenty-somethings with zero economic experience and vendettas against "lolbertarians". They are so full of themselves they think the teenagers and unemployed twenty-somethings on *this* forum (read: Atlas) represent the entirety of Bitcoin when they say things like "It crashed because people ran out of money to support the price, but SomethingAwful got blamed."

In actuality, very few people purchased at $20 or above, but if you were to take a few of these interpretations from Something Awful members, all of us were buying at that point over a year ago. I really wish they'd just tone down the rhetoric, but when they can spend all day posting nonsense and trying to make villains out of forum regulars and think they are making headway, why wouldn't they? Banning Rarity is a "meh". I wouldn't mind seeing a few more banned just to watch them get pissy about it and cry about evil theymos censorship in the SA thread. It's fun to watch their reactions. If they are enjoying reading this forum and loling, we might as well get a kick out of reading theirs!

EDIT: Worth noting, I found out about Bitcoin independent of SA, first in late 2009 and again when it was actually worth something in 2010. I consider myself a "goon" about as much as I consider myself a "BitcoinTalker", but I suppose since I *do* have an account I can pretend to hate Atlas or Dank or whoever it is the SA thread is currently targeting if it helps me fit the present profile Tongue. I just can't dedicate tens of posts a day to ridiculing people since I actually have a day job and just post here at night and over lunch.

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October 22, 2012, 07:08:57 PM
 #66

You have zero evidence Rarity is a troll, only speculation.  Rarity appears to me to be a fan of Bitcoin and a long time member here who never trolled.   This "Something Awful" site is behind a paywall, the only way you could possibly see what is happening there is if you yourself are a member.

Members of that forum are trolling with Rarity as their target, and you have just revealed yourself to be one of them.
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October 22, 2012, 07:11:29 PM
 #67

Wow, that makes a lot more sense now.  The moderators of the forum could obviously see something over there too, which proves they are members as well.  Why are the moderators joining up with this other forum to troll members like Rarity?
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October 22, 2012, 07:11:57 PM
 #68


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October 22, 2012, 07:35:29 PM
 #69

You have zero evidence Rarity is a troll, only speculation.  Rarity appears to me to be a fan of Bitcoin and a long time member here who never trolled.   This "Something Awful" site is behind a paywall, the only way you could possibly see what is happening there is if you yourself are a member.

Members of that forum are trolling with Rarity as their target, and you have just revealed yourself to be one of them.

No shit, Sherlock... Roll Eyes
If it wasn't for you telling us Raize is a goon we would never suspect...

...
The better SA goons that actually do their own research and discovery have just accepted Bitcoin for what it is and moved on, or like me, are sometimes finding active scammers.
...
I love SA, been a member there for over a decade
...

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October 22, 2012, 07:37:12 PM
 #70

He also went on to make a total mockery of the scammer tag system:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117590.0
(it was subsequently seconded)

Normally, if that's all a person did trolling wise, that'd be alright. However, this has been a pattern for Rarity and this forum has really just seen enough. Making that thread that I mentioned really was what broke the camel's back for me. Prior to that, Rarity was only being destructive to meaningful conversation in a few threads, but making that thread broke the containment.

Umm The "scammer tag" was a mockery the moment that intersango/bitcoinica/zhoutong did not get a scammer tag.  Rarity's thread looked like a legitimate request over an unfulfilled obligation.

As for the "Rarity = goon" conspiracy, from what I read, even the goons don't think Rarity's a goon.
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October 22, 2012, 07:38:01 PM
 #71

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No shit, Sherlock...  
If it wasn't for you telling us Raize is a goon we would never suspect...

My point was in regards to the moderators "evidence" against Rarity.  They should not be using secret evidence from their paysite to be moderating this free forum.

It is troubling that so many members of that forum such as Raize, including moderators here, are vocal opponents of Rarity.  I am glad you are starting to see things my way.  Trolls from that place should not be allowed to besmirch the good name of Rarity or act as moderators here.
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October 22, 2012, 08:10:59 PM
 #72

Trolls from that place should not be allowed to besmirch the good name of Rarity.


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October 22, 2012, 08:15:10 PM
 #73

I don't think it's a laughing matter that moderators of this forum are members of this "Something Awful" group that are plotting to troll users here from behind their paywall as Raize has described.  Rarity does not deserve to be trolled by them or banned for criticizing them. 
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October 22, 2012, 09:48:23 PM
 #74

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Rarity, for trolling. All he's been doing is wasting everyone's time. He never listens to reason, even to the point where most of our regular trolls give up:
Quote from: MPOE-PR on October 10, 2012, 04:14:15 PM
I'm happy with this. Far as we're concerned the matter may rest.
Quote from: Rarity on October 10, 2012, 04:01:16 PM
Quote
I'm not going to keep responding to these ridiculous accusations based on rumors and assumptions.

Sounds like you just admitted to them all, just with the caveat that you were going to stop the lies and lies of omissions later if you got a sucker on the hook.  Sure you would have.  Sure!
He also went on to make a total mockery of the scammer tag system:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117590.0

It's to the point that I can only believe that he is doing this on purpose. Theymos, I know that you have a conflict of interest here because Rarity has been debating you regarding GLBSE, so feel free to let him know that I made this request. Also, if someone else could second this, that'd be great.

This is a clear admission Rarity was banned for criticizing Theymos.  Rarity made that post in response to Theymos admitting he did not reveal everything in his sale post, and claiming that he would have done so later in the sale.  Why the hell should an unbiased observer take Theymos at his word on that?  The only evidence of Rarity "not seeing reason" is not believing Theymos?  Who wanted GLBSE to remain an illegal market?  Who is now doing nothing but sniping from the sidelines while Nefario sends out refunds?

And why is Rarity making a mockery of the scammer tag system by complaining that a written contract on these forums was broken?  It seems more a mockery that Dank was allowed to get away with it and continues to solicit donations towards his music as if he were capable of playing any.

And if "mocking the scammer tag system" is worthy of banning, do you intend to ban dank for turning the thread about his deceptive breach of contract into a discussion of how illegal drugs cure cancer which is caused by a weak soul?

Of course not, you are just making a weak excuse for being caught red handed trying to shut down a critic of the administrator. 
See:
Again, there was no problem with any single post (except for a few here and there that were dealt with), rather it was the overall picture that resulted in the ban.

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October 22, 2012, 10:06:32 PM
 #75

If there is a pattern of trolling you should have no problem pointing to examples of clearly trolling behavior.  Instead, you have dodged doing so for over a week and have instead pointed to posts hidden behind  a paywall on another forum apparently dedicated to trolling this site.  Why, exactly, are you a member of such a group?
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October 22, 2012, 10:43:22 PM
 #76

If there is a pattern of trolling you should have no problem pointing to examples of clearly trolling behavior.  Instead, you have dodged doing so for over a week and have instead pointed to posts hidden behind  a paywall on another forum apparently dedicated to trolling this site.  Why, exactly, are you a member of such a group?

It sounds more and more that the definition of "trolling" on this forums is simply "stuff Theymos doesn't like"
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October 22, 2012, 11:58:36 PM
 #77

If there is a pattern of trolling you should have no problem pointing to examples of clearly trolling behavior.  Instead, you have dodged doing so for over a week and have instead pointed to posts hidden behind  a paywall on another forum apparently dedicated to trolling this site.  Why, exactly, are you a member of such a group?

It sounds more and more that the definition of "trolling" on this forums is simply "stuff Theymos doesn't like"

There is no literal trolling on this forum with exceptions of Rarity or others. These people are obviously looking for just a reaction.

On the other hand, skepticism and disagreement are labeled as trolling here, wrongly so.
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October 23, 2012, 12:06:22 AM
 #78

If there is a pattern of trolling you should have no problem pointing to examples of clearly trolling behavior.  Instead, you have dodged doing so for over a week and have instead pointed to posts hidden behind  a paywall on another forum apparently dedicated to trolling this site.  Why, exactly, are you a member of such a group?

It sounds more and more that the definition of "trolling" on this forums is simply "stuff Theymos doesn't like"

There is no literal trolling on this forum with exceptions of Rarity or others. These people are obviously looking for just a reaction.

On the other hand, skepticism and disagreement are labeled as trolling here, wrongly so.

Yet another baseless accusation leveled at Rarity.  Let me guess, you have posted with the troll planners on this "Something Awful" too?

Rarity was the definition of a reasonable skeptic on these forums.  Her skepticism of libertarian arguments and her pro-government and regulation views were labeled as trolling specifically because they were a minority viewpoint strongly argued.  Some of those with less faith in their views could not handle the challenge of not not existing in an echo chamber and chose the easy way out of attacking the messenger rather than defending their views.
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October 23, 2012, 02:05:56 AM
 #79

If there is a pattern of trolling you should have no problem pointing to examples of clearly trolling behavior.  Instead, you have dodged doing so for over a week and have instead pointed to posts hidden behind  a paywall on another forum apparently dedicated to trolling this site.  Why, exactly, are you a member of such a group?

It sounds more and more that the definition of "trolling" on this forums is simply "stuff Theymos doesn't like"

There is no literal trolling on this forum with exceptions of Rarity or others. These people are obviously looking for just a reaction.

On the other hand, skepticism and disagreement are labeled as trolling here, wrongly so.

Yet another baseless accusation leveled at Rarity.  Let me guess, you have posted with the troll planners on this "Something Awful" too?

Rarity was the definition of a reasonable skeptic on these forums.  Her skepticism of libertarian arguments and her pro-government and regulation views were labeled as trolling specifically because they were a minority viewpoint strongly argued.  Some of those with less faith in their views could not handle the challenge of not not existing in an echo chamber and chose the easy way out of attacking the messenger rather than defending their views.

Okay, Rarity.
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October 23, 2012, 02:09:29 AM
 #80

If there is a pattern of trolling you should have no problem pointing to examples of clearly trolling behavior.  Instead, you have dodged doing so for over a week and have instead pointed to posts hidden behind  a paywall on another forum apparently dedicated to trolling this site.  Why, exactly, are you a member of such a group?

It sounds more and more that the definition of "trolling" on this forums is simply "stuff Theymos doesn't like"

There is no literal trolling on this forum with exceptions of Rarity or others. These people are obviously looking for just a reaction.

On the other hand, skepticism and disagreement are labeled as trolling here, wrongly so.

Yet another baseless accusation leveled at Rarity.  Let me guess, you have posted with the troll planners on this "Something Awful" too?

Rarity was the definition of a reasonable skeptic on these forums.  Her skepticism of libertarian arguments and her pro-government and regulation views were labeled as trolling specifically because they were a minority viewpoint strongly argued.  Some of those with less faith in their views could not handle the challenge of not not existing in an echo chamber and chose the easy way out of attacking the messenger rather than defending their views.

Okay, Rarity.

Okay, dank.
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