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Question: What to do with the SC Single ($1299)
Keep it at 60Ghash - 32 (45.1%)
Update the firmware to 65Ghash - 39 (54.9%)
Total Voters: 71

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Author Topic: Petition: BFL SC Single should be 65Ghash and not 60Ghash  (Read 10235 times)
ice_chill
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October 13, 2012, 07:20:32 PM
 #1

Hi, this thread is created in response to the new LITTLE SC Single that is advertised as a 30Ghash unit.

With all other BFL products it has been the case that the more you pay the more you get.

But the new LITTLE SC Single ($649) makes the SC Single ($1299) appear uncompetitive, especially if you are investing a large amount of money for the purchase of over 10 units, in this case you would be interested in having some redundancy, which the LITTLE SC Single offers.
A thread that quickly highlights redundancy benefit is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=118276.0

However if BFL releases a firmware for the SC Single ($1299) to run at 65Ghash, then this keeps the structure of "The more you pay the more value you get".

Also at 65Ghash per SC Single, it would still not out-compete the SC MiniRig.
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October 13, 2012, 08:00:22 PM
 #2

Do you have any reason to believe that BFL is currently capable of offering the single sc @ 65GH/s? If so, is there any reason why they shouldn't offer the little single sc @ 32.5GH/s? I guess I don't really understand the point.

Did you order a single sc and are now upset that they offered a product that costs 50% as much and offers 50% of the performance?  Huh (excepting the paltry $1 difference which would be eaten by shipping & power consumption differences anyway)

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October 13, 2012, 08:01:31 PM
 #3

speechless, I am simply speechless.  Shocked

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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October 13, 2012, 08:09:06 PM
 #4

Do you have any reason to believe that BFL is currently capable of offering the single sc @ 65GH/s? If so, is there any reason why they shouldn't offer the little single sc @ 32.5GH/s? I guess I don't really understand the point.

Did you order a single sc and are now upset that they offered a product that costs 50% as much and offers 50% of the performance?  Huh (excepting the paltry $1 difference which would be eaten by shipping & power consumption differences anyway)

First point, they said there is atleast 20% headroom in the SC chips.

Second, it's not the $1 that matters, but value for money, which comes in the form of redundancy: if a Single fails and has to be sent back to BFL for repair, than it's better to have 2x30Ghash units than 1x60Ghash.
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October 13, 2012, 08:19:17 PM
 #5

Hmmm...I can see your redundancy argument, and I agree it's somewhat valid, but that will and should occur to anyone considering investing in the technology.

That redundancy will come with the cost of likely additional shipping, likely greater power consumption, more maintenance, greater chance of failure, & more usb ports required.

Neither option is a slam dunk win.

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October 13, 2012, 08:31:51 PM
 #6

I demand that Intel increase the speeds of their i7-3930k from 3.8GHz to 4.2GHz. I always demand at least a 10% overclock when I buy new hardware. I see people OC these all the time, so it shouldn't be a problem. Right, Intel? Get on it!

Are you serious? I don't know if I'm more put off by your arrogance, or your ignorance.

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SLok
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October 13, 2012, 08:48:34 PM
 #7

But what's the problem ice_chill, just buy Little Singles instead of Single SC's, or change your order? As you said, lots of advantages?
Also, you're comparing 30 to 60Gh/s, but the different costs for BFL may be in the difference in internal components, like 4 asics @ 7.5 Gh/s for the little and 10 asics @ 6 Gh/s for the Single?

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October 13, 2012, 08:51:58 PM
 #8

There is no arrogance or ignorance, all this is based on the simply fact:

If you by FPGA Single, you get less performance per dollar than FPGA MiniRig.

It was like this with the 3 SC offerings:

Jalapeno:  (4.5Ghash) 1Ghash costs $33
SC Single: (60Ghash) 1 Ghash costs $21.65
SC Minirig: (1500Ghash)1 Ghash costs $19.93

You see the more you pay the better value you get, I want this to apply to the LITTLE SC Single, this can be done by upgrading the SC Single to 65Ghash
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October 13, 2012, 08:56:20 PM
 #9

There is no arrogance or ignorance, all this is based on the simply fact:

If you by FPGA Single, you get less performance per dollar than FPGA MiniRig.

It was like this with the 3 SC offerings:

Jalapeno:  (4.5Ghash) 1Ghash costs $33
SC Single: (60Ghash) 1 Ghash costs $21.65
SC Minirig: (1500Ghash)1 Ghash costs $19.93

You see the more you pay the better value you get, I want this to apply to the LITTLE SC Single, this can be done by upgrading the SC Single to 65Ghash

Thank you for answering my question. It's definitely the latter of my two assumptions. Peace.

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October 13, 2012, 09:15:45 PM
 #10

BFL c
Hmmm...I can see your redundancy argument, and I agree it's somewhat valid, but that will and should occur to anyone considering investing in the technology.

That redundancy will come with the cost of likely additional shipping, likely greater power consumption, more maintenance, greater chance of failure, & more usb ports required.

Neither option is a slam dunk win.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redundancy_(engineering)
Having two 30Gh/s units instead of one 60Gh/s unit does not increase redundancy.  It only decreases the "variance" of the lost hashing power due to downtime.  Assuming the failure rates of both types are identical, the expected output of both setups is identical.

BFL can spec their devices any way they please.  The only reason to complain about the Little SC would be if buyers were allowed to jump ahead of Jally/SC/Minirig preorders in shipping order.

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ice_chill
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October 13, 2012, 10:54:14 PM
 #11

Posted on BFL's own forum, waiting for their reply https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/136-Petition-to-stabilise-price-structure-of-BFL-ASIC-hardware
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October 13, 2012, 11:53:20 PM
 #12

Hi, this thread is created in response to the new LITTLE SC Single that is advertised as a 30Ghash unit.

With all other BFL products it has been the case that the more you pay the more you get.

But the new LITTLE SC Single ($649) makes the SC Single ($1299) appear uncompetitive, especially if you are investing a large amount of money for the purchase of over 10 units, in this case you would be interested in having some redundancy, which the LITTLE SC Single offers.
A thread that quickly highlights redundancy benefit is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=118276.0

However if BFL releases a firmware for the SC Single ($1299) to run at 65Ghash, then this keeps the structure of "The more you pay the more value you get".

Also at 65Ghash per SC Single, it would still not out-compete the SC MiniRig.

Uh,you pay 2 times as much & GET 2x as much...............I don't see your reasoning.Except in regards to the Jalapeno & 1,500 gh rig.............

If they release firmware to up the 60gh to 65gh,then I'm sure something similar will happen for the "Little" SC & MAYBE for the Jalapeno............

HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh

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ice_chill
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October 14, 2012, 12:06:07 AM
 #13

You don't get more per $, whether you spend $649 or $1299, you get the same per $, but the more you spend the more value each $ should give you, this was always the price structure until the LITTLE SC Single broke it.
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October 14, 2012, 12:06:30 AM
 #14

Hi, this thread is created in response to the new LITTLE SC Single that is advertised as a 30Ghash unit.

With all other BFL products it has been the case that the more you pay the more you get.

But the new LITTLE SC Single ($649) makes the SC Single ($1299) appear uncompetitive, especially if you are investing a large amount of money for the purchase of over 10 units, in this case you would be interested in having some redundancy, which the LITTLE SC Single offers.
A thread that quickly highlights redundancy benefit is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=118276.0

However if BFL releases a firmware for the SC Single ($1299) to run at 65Ghash, then this keeps the structure of "The more you pay the more value you get".

Also at 65Ghash per SC Single, it would still not out-compete the SC MiniRig.

Well if you intend to overclock the units then you pay the extra for the cooling and better performance.
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October 14, 2012, 12:07:29 AM
 #15

I have the answer......IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT THEN DON'T BUY IT. There are other companies making ASIC miners. So go buy one from them and stop complaining.
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October 14, 2012, 01:13:44 AM
 #16

I have the answer......IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT THEN DON'T BUY IT. There are other companies making ASIC miners. So go buy one from them and stop complaining.

 Cheesy You beat me to it poon-TANG Cheesy

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October 14, 2012, 01:20:19 AM
 #17

The point is not like or dislike, the point is that SC LITTLE Single is better value, and had it been out for pre-order when ASIC was announced, then the SC LITTLE Singles are the ones I would go for.

BFL always boast about standing by existing customers, so they should make it up to those who pre-ordered SC Single before the SC LITTLE Single was announced.
Otherwise I would simply like an option to convert all my SC Single orders to SC LITTLE Singles.
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October 14, 2012, 01:21:17 AM
 #18

let the magic begin... abracadabra... puff ... 5 more Ghz for the SC Single

come on dude!

P.S.
did you ask them is such conversion is possible ?

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October 14, 2012, 01:29:40 AM
 #19

don't give a shit, just want a demo of their spectactuarly fast mining hardware to believe it even exists.

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October 14, 2012, 01:32:14 AM
 #20

let the magic begin... abracadabra... puff ... 5 more Ghz for the SC Single

come on dude!

P.S.
did you ask them is such conversion is possible ?

The SC Single was originally 40Ghash, then upped to 60Ghash, then BFL said there is a minimum 20% headroom, so minimum 72Ghash is what it is capable of. They actually said the chip was running at 500Mhz to achieve 40Ghash, and is capable of 1Ghz, so 80Ghash, but not every chip might reach the full 1Ghz.

I have posted the question on their own forum and waiting for their reply: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/136-Petition-to-stabilise-price-structure-of-BFL-ASIC-hardware
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