Why is non-consensual release of personal information allowed?

[worhiper_-_]

I never quite understood this. Several posts with DOXing stay up and are never removed. Isn't it hard for mods to see when a user is trying to damage someone's reputation with baseless accusations and when it's actually information to built up a scam accusation case? But even if it's the later, why should a forum indexed by search engines and well ranked in terms of SEO allow that? Is bitcointalk.org encouraging mob justice? Is the forum Satoshi created for discussion about bitcoin to take place in endorsing taking conflicts about an e-currency into real life, perhaps even with violence and life ruining tactics (that could even target the false person)? I'm sure you realize allowing such a thing can be abused by people with very, very bad intentions.

This forum should have a zero tolerance policy against this. Besides, it's even against google's policy to allow such a thing. 8chan was briefly de-listed from google for not following it. If Theymos cares about ad revenue and the future of this forum he should really consider this.

[ColderThanIce]

To my understanding the forum allows stuff like that to be posted because they believe in free speech, and releasing a user's public info falls under that, as long as the information was legally obtained and is/was publicly accessible.

But in lots of the doxxing cases I'm not so sure that all the information was obtained in legal ways, however I don't think those posts are ever removed either.

[Xian01]

Because these forums don't care about doxxing, unless it's posting Theymos' dox.

[ndnh]

Absolutely no idea. If i was admin, I would be banning anyone who tried to Dox anyone and all scammers I can get my hands on.

[shorena]

A dox is just an aggregation of publicly available information and as such not a violation of any rights. Theymos said in the past that he is strongly against e.g. the release of social security numbers and will go against that.

[dogie]

A dox is just an aggregation of publicly available information and as such not a violation of any rights. Theymos said in the past that he is strongly against e.g. the release of social security numbers and will go against that.

Except most of the doxes here include non public information

[Blazr]

8chan was briefly de-listed from google for not following it.

It doesn't say that in the article. Clearly it says:

I simply cannot understand why we were singled out with such an obscure message Google rarely uses. It absolutely baffles me.

The actual answer is that they were removed for hosting CP:
https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3gs638/censorship_8chan_removed_from_google_search/

I don't know of any website that was delisted from Google for simply hosting dox.

Besides, it's even against google's policy to allow such a thing

It doesn't say that either. What you should have linked is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten

Google will remove pages that contain certain personal info like SSN's. They will not take down a dox that is just a persons name, phone number, dob and address. Trust me many people have tried.

Personally I think doxing is a last resort, and that the threat of doxing someone is usually worse than the actual act. Typically if you let the person know that you have their dox that will stop the problem right there and you won't need to post the dox unless the problem continues. I don't think it should be outright "banned", but I certainly do not like that people are doxxing others over small personal matters. Thats totally not cool and not even effective at all. You should try to resolve the situation in other ways before resorting to doxxing.

[worhiper_-_]

Ok to address Blazr's points,

8chan was de-listed, without receiving a notification from google as to why. Saying that the same could happen might be a stretch but I wouldn't consider it impossible.

The actual answer is...

Sure, but the FAQ I linked to actually mentions that google delists websites for alleged defamation, hate speech, impersonation as well. All of those could be part of doxing, the fact that it's user submitted content doesn't change much from their perspective.

The right to be forgotten is a completely different procedure, supported by the EU. Where google removes search results from showing up per request if and only if the party making the request can submit the necessary evidence, which is not an anonymous precedure.

[Cøbra]

Isn't Google more flexible with forums/social media and other sites based on user generated content? The most that will happen is that they'll stop linking to the particular thread where the defamation, hate speech, or impersonation is happening.

I think the risk of being permanently de-listed from Google is very low. It's not a factor that should influence any decision or change in forum policy here.

[shorena]

-snip-
The right to be forgotten is a completely different procedure, supported by the EU. Where google removes search results from showing up per request if and only if the party making the request can submit the necessary evidence, which is not an anonymous precedure.

It also has nothing to do with the topic at hand, because the judgments until now are only against google as a search engine, not e.g. against the newspaper with the actual information.

[erikalui]

I don't know why it's allowed to release someone's personal information on the forum (though Badbear and Theymos have criticized this). Even members threaten other members out here like personal threats to their life and that's as well considered 'freedom of speech'. If this way someone is harmed in their personal life, it won't be a good thing for this forum. Doxing should be banned IMO.

[BiPolarBob]

It shouldn't be allowed.

If a silly forum argument has someone so fired up that they feel the need to doxx the other, then that's a good sign to take a break and go do something else.

Even if there is a "legal" reason (e.g. theft) to find someone's identity, and you are that good of a detective, then call the police and give them your discoveries. Bringing it onto the forum is just immature and petty (and can cause damage if you accidently doxx the wrong person).

-BPB

[alani123]

Isn't Google more flexible with forums/social media and other sites based on user generated content? The most that will happen is that they'll stop linking to the particular thread where the defamation, hate speech, or impersonation is happening.

I think the risk of being permanently de-listed from Google is very low. It's not a factor that should influence any decision or change in forum policy here.

Thanks for your input Cobra. We don't get a chance to hear from you that often so I believe that your presence highlights the importance of the issue.

[Kanapka]

If you dox is from the correct people and obtained from legal sources then there are arguments in favor.


But if you can't prove that the dox info is the person behind the account, then things are problematic. If you accuse him from crimes in public and can't prove he really did them, then the one committing a crime is you, spceially if you contact the people from his work accusing him

[SaltySpitoon]

I never quite understood this. Several posts with DOXing stay up and are never removed. Isn't it hard for mods to see when a user is trying to damage someone's reputation with baseless accusations and when it's actually information to built up a scam accusation case? But even if it's the later, why should a forum indexed by search engines and well ranked in terms of SEO allow that? Is bitcointalk.org encouraging mob justice? Is the forum Satoshi created for discussion about bitcoin to take place in endorsing taking conflicts about an e-currency into real life, perhaps even with violence and life ruining tactics (that could even target the false person)? I'm sure you realize allowing such a thing can be abused by people with very, very bad intentions.

This forum should have a zero tolerance policy against this. Besides, it's even against google's policy to allow such a thing. 8chan was briefly de-listed from google for not following it. If Theymos cares about ad revenue and the future of this forum he should really consider this.

Dox stay up because it is typically meta data. If information about you can be found on social media/google, whatever, its not private. If someone has to steal your medical records from a hospital in order to release it, then that is not allowed, nor is posting someone else's social security number. As far as baseless accusations and such, it is up for individuals to determine what is baseless. If people want to post about their businesses here without needing Bitcointalk to fact check, verify their claims, etc, then they need to be willing to do that themselves when people ask. Bitcointalk is not affiliated with google in any way, ads are all done in house.

Because these forums don't care about doxxing, unless it's posting Theymos' dox.

Theymos' dox are floating around somewhere in meta, rules don't apply differently to moderators/admins.

[Xian01]

Because these forums don't care about doxxing, unless it's posting Theymos' dox.

Theymos' dox are floating around somewhere in meta, rules don't apply differently to moderators/admins.

My 45 day ban a while back would beg to differ.

Dude is a coward and a profiteering hypocrite IMO.

EDIT: And if you wonder why I'm so personally bitter directly with Michael, it's because he allowed Josh Zerlan to dox me using private information in BFL's customer database while Josh brazenly lied about it being public information. Oh, and where is BFL today ? Hmm...

[KWH]

The problem isn't the act of doxing for the most part, it is the factual doxing the correct person. I have seen so much wrong information posted it is unbelievable.
No SSID and other sensitive information should ever be allowed and doxing should only be the last resort.
IMO, no doxing should be allowed from an alt. or new account. If you post it and are wrong, you should suffer the consequences.

[GannickusX]

This forum allows a lot of stuff that should not, selling/buying accounts, even default trust ones, doxing people, some scams, some not, like ponzies and other ponzi related ´´games´´ and yes i know it´s to gather all ponzies in one place but is still kind of ridiculous. They are very strict about people spamming or posting useless stuff but not so much when it comes to scammers since they are never banned.

[worhiper_-_]

I see come contradictions in what SaltySpitoon posted.

1.

Dox stay up because it is typically meta data. If information about you can be found on social media/google, whatever, its not private.

2.

If someone has to steal your medical records from a hospital in order to release it, then that is not allowed, nor is posting someone else's social security number.

What I gather from this is that information that could somehow be publicly available, are allowed to be posted here. But in quote #2 it's stated that non-public information are not allowed. But what falls under your definition of non-public information? What if the doxed person claims none of the information released were publicly available?

I also didn't see the issue about false information being released. (Guess that would fall under the up for individuals to determine what is baseless logic?)

[dogie]

I see come contradictions in what SaltySpitoon posted.

There is generally a huge contradiction. Either the admins are ALL willing to post their entire 'dox' information (as its all public record anyway, right?), or remove doxes when they serve no purpose / done maliciously. They'll say "but I'm anonymous", then.... surely everyone else wants to be?